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2G 2g SPC Upper A-Arm replacements discontinued

turbosax2

Moderator
4,414
427
Nov 19, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
For further reference, if you just need the ball joint boots, the PN is 50006003.

Now, if we could just get new anchors, I'd be a happy camper.
received_930540581175068-jpeg.645038
 

gofer

Moderator
8,148
1,385
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona

turbosax2

Moderator
4,414
427
Nov 19, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
@turbosax2 I was looking through their site for these as well and the tech support said that I should check their Builder Series parts to see if something matched. I haven't had time to mic my old ones to check dimensions but we might get lucky and find a match...

Here's a link to their flyer, page 2 has their rod end ball joints and the sealed flex joint too.
I didn't look their catalog but I was emailing back and forth with Jordan Pitkin earlier this year and after sending him the attached pictures he said "Bad news, Mr Eric, nothing in our current bushing catalog is the right size for, or even close to, that bushing."

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gofer

Moderator
8,148
1,385
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
That sucks, Eric. Maybe we can bug @99gst_racer and talk him into doing a VMC spherical bearing UCA mount for the SPC UCA's, something like this, since we can't replace the bushing. :pray:

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turbosax2

Moderator
4,414
427
Nov 19, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
I did talk to Paul earlier about this as well but didn't end up going down that path for now. I ended up getting several quotes from machine shops for loading the SPC anchors with sphericals and I think the cheapest quote was about $800 per car. So I just stole one of Brian's anchors for now and have been procrastinating. But if we had more people in need of this it would certainly help. Are your bushings shot as well?

Part of me isn't convinced spherical is the way to go, especially with concerns about cracking the mounting points on the chassis. John welded in extra support there to mitigate this (which involved machining some material off the anchor in order to not change the geometry). I've been meaning to dig through the Prothane/Energy Suspension catalogs to see if they have anything close but haven't done so yet.
 

gofer

Moderator
8,148
1,385
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
Yea, they're pricey. That image I sent was from a machine shop called Kingpin that sells them for Honda's and they were ~$450 for a set. They also do custom work but I'm sure it would be expensive just reading into how extensive their R&D is before even making the first set. https://kingpinmachine.com/custom-machining/

I just pulled these UCA's out last week and was going through them and yes, the bushings are in bad shape too. That was my next step, going through the Energy Suspension catalog and looking for something that might fit and giving it a try. I got the SPC ball joints that are "acceptable" replacements in the mail today so I'm going to mic them when I get home and compare with the originals. One thing at a time I guess...

I'll post back up the results and if I find anything that might be worth trying from Energy.
 

gofer

Moderator
8,148
1,385
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
The #660306 ball joint that SPC currently manufactures is about as close to the OE #720361 ball joint that came with the SPC UCA's. The only thing that I had to swap over was the keyed camber plate, other than that they seem to be a perfect match.

I'll edit this post with measurements with the mic but for now, here are photo comparisons. Thr only thing obvious I can see is the taper on the stud that seats into the spindle. Hopefully I don't have to modify the knuckles to account for this difference.

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gofer

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8,148
1,385
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
Am I allowed to try come up with a solve for this?
Of course!

Eric, I went through every universal fitment prothane bushing catalog I could find and nothing even came close to the size of the SPC bushing. I emailed Prothane the dimensions to see if there's a suitable replacement for us that's an OE application so we'll see how they respond.
 

EC17PSE

Freelancer
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2,998
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Of course!

Eric, I went through every universal fitment prothane bushing catalog I could find and nothing even came close to the size of the SPC bushing. I emailed Prothane the dimensions to see if there's a suitable replacement for us that's an OE application so we'll see how they respond.
I thought I would ask as paul was the one mentioned so thought he was what people wanted to help on this.

Without redrawing a new eyelet / mounting which would be more costly, I have already got 2 options drawn up as i did this as i was asking LOL. Both should work but 1 is more central vs the other which would increase caster about 1mm which is negligibale here.

What i can do possibly is get one made as i got 2 bushes that should work for this. Have the sleeves machined up and test fit into the awaiting mounting eyelet. What ever one fits best and suits would be the one to go with.
 

snowborder714

Moderator
16,169
342
Oct 15, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
I did talk to Paul earlier about this as well but didn't end up going down that path for now. I ended up getting several quotes from machine shops for loading the SPC anchors with sphericals and I think the cheapest quote was about $800 per car.

I think the cheapest quote we got was from the local place at $95/anchor.
 

gofer

Moderator
8,148
1,385
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
I can verify that the SPC #660306 ball joint fits into the knuckle, once I get the car aligned I'll be able to test it out on the road but so far so good.

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EC17PSE

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Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
So i got 2 options both using a poly bush thats replaceable.

#1. This will use 1 bush in the mount and 1 sleeve thats long, very similar to how some of the SPC camber units are, this method would also allow 1mm of caster to be put into the arm also when mounting as 1 face is thinner then the other.

#2 this is an equal setup with 2 polys per mount and 2 sleeves so it allows it to slip inside the poly. This wont have any caster built in and will be central.

This is the best I can do with poly bushes i can buy as a universal fitment.

Let me know what you lot think.

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gofer

Moderator
8,148
1,385
Feb 18, 2006
South Gilbert, Arizona
I'm a straight line racer so the #2 option seems like it would be my preferred choice, the guys that actually turn the wheel may want the additional caster adjustment.

Nice job getting those drawn up in SolidWorks so fast. haha
 

EC17PSE

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Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I'm a straight line racer so the #2 option seems like it would be my preferred choice, the guys that actually turn the wheel may want the additional caster adjustment.

Nice job getting those drawn up in SolidWorks so fast. haha
I use fusion, and i actually had these drawn up before my vacation not long after Brian posted the specs. took me a few hours to go through the hundreds of bushes but i found something that will work.

the caster of 1mm is negligible and likely not even noticeable LOL it was just a mention. with the outside BJ being adjustable its likely option 2 is possibly best and more ideal for all
 

turbosax2

Moderator
4,414
427
Nov 19, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
I use fusion, and i actually had these drawn up before my vacation not long after Brian posted the specs. took me a few hours to go through the hundreds of bushes but i found something that will work.

the caster of 1mm is negligible and likely not even noticeable LOL it was just a mention. with the outside BJ being adjustable its likely option 2 is possibly best and more ideal for all
I agree option #2 probably makes more sense. We already have the caster maxed out with the ball joint anyway.

What are your thoughts on using delrin for this bushing? It's been a while since I looked into it, but delrin kept popping up as a good material for this case to avoid the extra complexity of going to sphericals. We don't get the benefit of having off-the-shelf parts to work with, but it's easy to machine and we're doing machining for the sleeves anyway.
 

EC17PSE

Freelancer
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Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I agree option #2 probably makes more sense. We already have the caster maxed out with the ball joint anyway.

What are your thoughts on using delrin for this bushing? It's been a while since I looked into it, but delrin kept popping up as a good material for this case to avoid the extra complexity of going to sphericals. We don't get the benefit of having off-the-shelf parts to work with, but it's easy to machine and we're doing machining for the sleeves anyway.
Delrin is strong but i believe in a bush that is going to see pivoting its going to need a sleeve thats well greased up. Vs poly it will be stiffer for sure so if you can make sure you keep it from sticking then you will be all good
 

turbosax2

Moderator
4,414
427
Nov 19, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
Delrin is strong but i believe in a bush that is going to see pivoting its going to need a sleeve thats well greased up. Vs poly it will be stiffer for sure so if you can make sure you keep it from sticking then you will be all good
I've procrastinated on this project for far too long haha, so if you're interested in making a solution (whether poly or delrin), I'm a likely customer! Let me know if you're interested and if you need additional information or even if you need me to ship you parts to make sure everything works.
 

EC17PSE

Freelancer
5,649
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Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
I've procrastinated on this project for far too long haha, so if you're interested in making a solution (whether poly or delrin), I'm a likely customer! Let me know if you're interested and if you need additional information or even if you need me to ship you parts to make sure everything works.
Haha life is a bugger sometime huh.

Im happy to take it on. I got the specs from your previous drawings. I wont likely need anything shipped to me. As the bushes are quite small poly would be the cheaper option as an off the shelf item already produced vs machining new delrin. So we could start there as it will be strong enough to not cause lowds of deflection or squishing. Can always adjust later on if needs be.

I will go over the drawing again and confirm my work also and i will opt for the straight in the middle option vs offset 1mm one i came up with.
 

turbosax2

Moderator
4,414
427
Nov 19, 2006
Mechanicsburg, Pennsylvania
Haha life is a bugger sometime huh.

Im happy to take it on. I got the specs from your previous drawings. I wont likely need anything shipped to me. As the bushes are quite small poly would be the cheaper option as an off the shelf item already produced vs machining new delrin. So we could start there as it will be strong enough to not cause lowds of deflection or squishing. Can always adjust later on if needs be.

I will go over the drawing again and confirm my work also and i will opt for the straight in the middle option vs offset 1mm one i came up with.
Sounds good, thanks! Do you plan to keep or remove the metal sleeve pictured in the middle? I just took a look at a good anchor again and I'm not sure how easy it would be easy to remove the rubber from the sleeve if it hasn't already separated. I assume the plan is to remove the sleeve but wanted to check.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/image003-jpg.674708/
 

EC17PSE

Freelancer
5,649
2,998
Nov 1, 2008
London, UK, Europe
Sounds good, thanks! Do you plan to keep or remove the metal sleeve pictured in the middle? I just took a look at a good anchor again and I'm not sure how easy it would be easy to remove the rubber from the sleeve if it hasn't already separated. I assume the plan is to remove the sleeve but wanted to check.

https://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/image003-jpg.674708/
No sleeve wouod be best. I shall go over it all shortly and confirm what you previously had drawn up vs attached and go from there
 
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