ECMlink 2G idle chasing plus rich/lean cycling

[EC17PSE]

Hey Ecmlink family. im having an issue i cannot figure out (not hard for me not to know this solution since im actually still quite new to ecmlink still)

so I started off earlier this year on an evo base tune but then recently started again and reverted back to the stock 2G tune and map, so what is here is all oem 2G spec minus the inj times for the new injectors! below are a small few main issues i cannot work out from start to finish. my end result i want to try go for is a much nicer idle and not to try stall as once i have this i can then go to the dyno for a proper full setup tune.


*1 on start up its very long for it to fire up, i have the pump priming for a good while so i know its getting the fuel needed but its just not starting as sharply as it used to once before!

*2 The idle keeps chasing itself up and down and when it does i notice the FPR gauge goes from rich to lean so i think its related but cannot figure out where or why! could this be a SD setting i messed up as its my first ever SD use!

*3 I did set the ISC and BISS a while ago but maybe needs resetting again? as a precaution perhaps, but the log seems to tell me its ok but please let me me know if you see these as an issue at all please. could resetting LTFT or STFT be part of this issue its already stored?

*4 Im also having an issue when i touch the throttle pedal or move forwards a bit where it stutters / misses and trys to die on me, i have gone 1 plug colder BPR7ES due to the amount of boost im planning to run 22-24psi on my hybrid 16G so advise was to use the 1 stage colder ones, could this have anything to do with it? i believe i gapped them to .28 as normal when i used to run BPR6ES in stock form.

I thought my o2 sensor was bad but it turns out it was just not plugged in well but is now and seems to cycle nicely as it should do.

This is the final step to getting the idle nice and steady and not wish to die but also start nicer and then im off to the dyno but i really wish to get this solved first and see what I am missing to make this work better as i cannot seem to see what im missing here.

Thanks all

Bobby

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I wish I were close Bobby, I'd just come by for a bit. I sit in my car and adjust my global for my injectors and watch my long term fuel trims until they are within 5% +/- of zero. Then I play with dead time to get the short term fuel trims within the same tolerances. I just did this yesterday to get the tune dialed in after a AFPR swap. She was very rich (11.something) and I watch the wideband, looking for 14.7 or close at idle and cruise. After a few adjustments, she was purring like a kitten, hovering between 14.6-15.1 at idle and my simulated narrrowband came in as soon as I got the mixture to stoich.
Disclaimer....I am not a tuner.
I can get my car to run eveytime we change things tho.
Don't be afraid to "play" with settings to see what happens, I think its fun and can always be changed back.
What size of injectors are you running?
Marty

 

[EC17PSE]

I wish I were close Bobby, I'd just come by for a bit. I sit in my car and adjust my global for my injectors and watch my long term fuel trims until they are within 5% +/- of zero. Then I play with dead time to get the short term fuel trims within the same tolerances. I just did this yesterday to get the tune dialed in after a AFPR swap. She was very rich (11.something) and I watch the wideband, looking for 14.7 or close at idle and cruise. After a few adjustments, she was purring like a kitten, hovering between 14.6-15.1 at idle and my simulated narrrowband came in as soon as I got the mixture to stoich.
Disclaimer....I am not a tuner.
I can get my car to run eveytime we change things tho.
Don't be afraid to "play" with settings to see what happens, I think its fun and can always be changed back.
What size of injectors are you running?
Marty

That would be nice if i had local DSM family about! Im about all i got to rely on in the UK for DSM's .

Injectors are fic high z 1200 formally their 1100's but they swapped sizes but are the same units.

So i agree playing around is good but i want to play with the correct things, if global or dead times are what is used to set idle then thats what i will do as omce set i will likely never need to adjust those again.

I sat in the car not long ago and i adjusted the cranking/coolant adjust fuel to help with cold starts and i did it based on an old thread from back in 2013 so i did 10% on it all so i shall check again tomorrow if it really worked from cold. From about 35© it seemed to start a smidge sooner but might be becahse the fuel was already in the cylinders so hard to tell if it helped yet.

I then adjusted the SD cells that were tracked in the live stream which were mainly 4 cells for idle, they were hovering around 57 to 55 so that jump i assume was the reason for the chasing idle up and down! I could watch the revs move with afr and it made me see those cells as the issue and seems ok currently. It seems to be leveling out now and when i drop it into R or D it drops and picks back up again ok withiut wanting to stall, i did not get to move the car around on this stream so unsure on moving then stopping results. Shall try find this part out tomorrow.

The ISC also hovers around so i may need to do a reset on that as i did get it set closer to how ecmlink says to set it to. I shall go over it again to confirm anyway

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I am always just a click away Bobby. My cars start right up and run without me messing with anything. I can start and walk away. We tune idle and cruise first but alot do WOT first, just not the way I go about it.
I will check out your log when I'm not on my phone.

 

[EC17PSE]

I am always just a click away Bobby. My cars start right up and run without me messing with anything. I can start and walk away. We tune idle and cruise first but alot do WOT first, just not the way I go about it.
I will check out your log when I'm not on my phone.

WOT will be the absolute last thing i will be doing. For me is the same as you, idle spot on then cruise and then WOT. The dyno will help as i can load the wheels up to help with checking the cells.

I hope my minor adjustments for starting do help and the idle chasing is now limited or gone with the cells adjusted in SD. I want to get a local MOT which means the cars safe for road use and then i can do some local cruising for some logs and try get some more data ready for the final tuning on the dyno. All data is good data right? Lol

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

ALL DATA. I log the world Bobby, then just don't display it all.

 

[AWD-Tony]

It's too rich so I'd try lowering the global to -59%. Then set deadtime to zero and look at the combinedFT. Start adjusting the deadtime to get combinedFT close to zero as possible, +/-2% is great. As for the long crank on cold start, look to adjust crankingfueladj. Pay attention to the coolant temp, and try increase the value there. I was having the same issue, and now it starts like a champ.

Adjusts fuel delivery based on coolant temperature while cranking. This adjustment is quickly reduced over time after cranking has stopped. This adjustment is pretty much zeroed out within a few seconds of "normal" engine operation. Log CrankingFuelAdj to see the value currently being used by the ECU.

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[EC17PSE]

It's too rich so I'd try lowering the global to -59%. Then set deadtime to zero and look at the combinedFT. Start adjusting the deadtime to get combinedFT close to zero as possible, +/-2% is great. As for the long crank on cold start, look to adjust crankingfueladj. Pay attention to the coolant temp, and try increase the value there. I was having the same issue, and now it starts like a champ.

Adjusts fuel delivery based on coolant temperature while cranking. This adjustment is quickly reduced over time after cranking has stopped. This adjustment is pretty much zeroed out within a few seconds of "normal" engine operation. Log CrankingFuelAdj to see the value currently being used by the ECU.

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so the calculator on there tells me 62.5 so i did that but i feel as if these 1200 injectors are closer to 1500 as that does bring me down to around the -59%. i shall try that and see what happens.

also on the Dead times i read that its best to set that while undo voltage load like lights and brakes on to make sure the injectors can cope with the difference, did i read correctly or is this info wrong?

 

[KCDsmDude]

What fuel?

Couple of things that have helped me navigate -

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/the-big-book-of-random-tuning-tips.511262/

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-tune-a-1g-v3-sd-ecmlink-with-no-maf.395564/

 

[EC17PSE]

What fuel?

Couple of things that have helped me navigate -

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/the-big-book-of-random-tuning-tips.511262/

https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-tune-a-1g-v3-sd-ecmlink-with-no-maf.395564/

normal low Ethanol 2% fuel 94 grade

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Here is what my coolant temp adjust looks like. It is on my 90 GSX with HKS cams and 1120 FIC injectors, just for reference. It is also my only MAF car but that makes no difference on this matter.

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[1990TSIAWDTALON]

I see STFT's adding 2% of fuel (deadtime adjustment) but LTFTs pulling more than 9% (global adjustment). You have a lot of deadtime at 330. I am using negative deadtime on my 2150's, just so you know that you can set them in the negative range (I wasn't aware of until my tuner told me). I can't add any value to the thread more than has been but I wanted you to know that I did look at the log.

 

[EC17PSE]

I see STFT's adding 2% of fuel (deadtime adjustment) but LTFTs pulling more than 9% (global adjustment). You have a lot of deadtime at 330. I am using negative deadtime on my 2150's, just so you know that you can set them in the negative range (I wasn't aware of until my tuner told me). I can't add any value to the thread more than has been but I wanted you to know that I did look at the log.

Ok i shall adjust the global lower and reset DT to zero and adjust from that and see how it gets on.

Thanks Marty for taking a look, hopefully soon i can have it idling nicely.

 

[AWD-Tony]

so the calculator on there tells me 62.5 so i did that but i feel as if these 1200 injectors are closer to 1500 as that does bring me down to around the -59%. i shall try that and see what happens.

also on the Dead times i read that its best to set that while undo voltage load like lights and brakes on to make sure the injectors can cope with the difference, did i read correctly or is this info wrong?

I haven’t read that and don’t think that’s correct since we all need headlights and such. It shouldn’t matter at all imo.

 

[EC17PSE]

I haven’t read that and don’t think that’s correct since we all need headlights and such. It shouldn’t matter at all imo.

Ok i dont know if its true but i read it from a while back on a wisemans post i think it was so assumed it was correct

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

My car tells me what is right and what doesn't work. I play with all of mine all the time, can't leave em alone . Bad habit.

 

[EC17PSE]

So might aswel log it here but i think my o2 sensor is on the fritz afterall! It dropped voltage again so im going to order 2 new ones but wont be for a few weeks yet so will restart again once its here.

Any chance i killed it by being too rich? I mean the calculator said to use -62.5% global so if thats to rich then why did it start me off there?

I wish there was a simulation software you can use and mess around with to trial and error a fake engine and learn, i think that would be really good

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Pull the sensor and clean it with brake parts cleaner without touching it with your hands (put on gloves) and put the sensor back in. Are you running front and rear ?

 

[EC17PSE]

Pull the sensor and clean it with brake parts cleaner without touching it with your hands (put on gloves) and put the sensor back in. Are you running front and rear ?

Just a front one only. Rears disabled

 

[EC17PSE]

some good results!!!

Marty tole me to clean my front o2 as i likely sooted it up from being too rich so i did that and its working again, I have 2 new NGK units on the way fron JNZ anyway just incase i need spares.

so after re reading everything and changing he oil to fresh oil as it had a small whif of fuel from being too rich today i was able to reset a few things and setup again,

after i got it up to temp and first fan cycle kicked in first thing i did was set the BISS / ISC which was sitting about 44 for some reason since i had already set this up i dont know why it went so high? I got pretty close to 30 but it does wonder to 33 sometimes but i notice it hovers around 30 mostly but learnt idle is about 144 and not 140 but im happy thats close enough.

global is set a little lower then the suggested 59.5% but thats because i was watching the trims and moving the global to make it come down as close to 0 as i could then i adjusted dead times to get the combined FT within 0% but its about -/+ 2 ish % so im happy there,

I think i could add a little voltage in the injector times to recover the fuel abit better when volts get used like lights and EPS etc but i will do that next as its only a small amount needed.

Start up is wayyyyyyyyy better now i have sorted the coolant inj setup, its not perfect but its about 120% better i feel another small increase would help a bit more but now i have this idle setup better i will see what a fully cold start is like before i do these final adjustments!

Now all this is setup nicer now I actually managed to move the car around our cul de sak without it stalling! which is great since it always wanted to stall when in gear or trying to move so im most certainly on the right track i think to getting the idle all done!!!

so these 2 logs are my recent work done.. 1st one is once reset and readjusted and thats a long one but towards the middle/end is when the final setup was mostly done.

the second log is a 30 min cool down and then a restart then moved it straight away to see how it moved and if it stalled or not and it was all good, then drove around quickly then parked it up so this log is very short.


hopefully this is all ok and i have not missed anything for the idle setup. as next up i have to learn the smaller things like vE and what that does and then when do i mess around with the AFR table as they all are a bit rich but thats for the dyno tuning anyway but need to learn this all now as much as i can

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

This is WONDERFUL news Bobby. Very happy to hear you describe your progress and happiness with your accomplishments. Pat yourself on the back, you are coming along nicely with the things you are learning and what they do!
Keep up the good work and the updates! I will try to get a look at the logs. I am on my phone at the moment.
Marty

 

[EC17PSE]

This is WONDERFUL news Bobby. Very happy to hear you describe your progress and happiness with your accomplishments. Pat yourself on the back, you are coming along nicely with the things you are learning and what they do!
Keep up the good work and the updates! I will try to get a look at the logs. I am on my phone at the moment.
Marty

Cheers marty. I will be adjusting the inj volts as when i shift into drive i notice it bogs and runs lean so i read on the ecmlink tips that adjusting the 12 and 9 volt area can help on this with lean situations.

my other thing i need to figure out now is when i blip the throttle when its not fully warm and try to move it tends to stall then kicks in again so im not sure what this is due to when its warming up as i dont always wish to wait 10 mins or so till fully warm!

also i did a cold start and while it does try its best to start first time around it stalls and then second start goes well, i will add another 5% on fuel crankingadj in hopes this will help. i may even only go 2% since i did 5% i think last time

 

[EC17PSE]

went and started by adjusting cranking coolant start by 5%. seems ok and will of course do another cold start tomorrow to check.

i adjusted inj batt times in 12V and 9V to account for the dip in volts and lean wideband and it seems much more stable now then before, this might also be helpful since i had a weird stalling blip when i was on light throttle in gear which dont seem as bad now but minor notice it. hoping i can get the rest out so maybe it needs a fraction more perhaps?

adjusted global and deadtimes again to get to specific % areas and seems good.

then after i was happy i took it around the side road a bit to check for stalling or hesitation and to get the wheels turning faster then 2mph to a whopping 10mph maybe and if the fueling was ok once stopped and such when i went from drive to reverse etc to get a little bit more tiny data as small as it maybe at this stage . i know ideally i need a cruise log now but once i finished my front bumper i can get the car tested and be fully road legal again to go do that cruise log so im hoping soon!!!

let me know what you lot think of the tune and baseline thus far and if im headed in the right direction

 

[1990TSIAWDTALON]

Tip in is the adjustment for more "squirt" when you push on the gas pedal so play with it Bobby. Sounds like "progress"!!!!

 

[jed344]

Log looks good for idle. Everything very close ISC in low 30s' tps volt .65 close enough. STFT within few % LTFT LO around 5% lean not a big deal.