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2G Engine???

Posted by RubberDuckyz, Oct 1, 2012

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  1. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    I was wondering that too! Seems as though this intake didn't have those. I should probably put that on huh? I'm sure there's probably some write up on here for a cure.
     
  2. Abe'sGST

    Abe'sGST Proven Member

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    Goldsboro, North Carolina
    Who in the world did that? someone is literally stupid :banghead:..and OP , what I would do if i was you is take out the whole engine and get yourself a working 2g turbo 4g63 engine and drop it in there, it will save you all the headaches you're probably going thru. Good luck
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  3. 97SPYDER210

    97SPYDER210 Proven Member

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    san antonio, Texas
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=138269&d=1335710466
    This link should get you to the tech forum. If you apply 12 volt to the black plug then you will turn on the fuel pump. This wire is there to test if the fuel pump is working. Also when you were testing the fuel pump with a volt meter you need to be cracking the engine the fuel pump only works when you crack the engine
     

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    · 2G DSM
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  4. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    See the only problem with this is that my 1g motor doesn't seem to have that black plug. I read about that test in the service manual too, but couldn't find any plug similar to the one shown.
     
  5. 97SPYDER210

    97SPYDER210 Proven Member

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    Last edited: Oct 4, 2012

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    · 2G DSM
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  6. miguelmcv

    miguelmcv Supporting Member

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    Joined May 3, 2009
    Fresno, California
    Search again for the fuel pump test wire.
    Check this link, go to the last post (#60), It shows all 3 test connectors, the black is the one for the fuel pump.
    http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/art...7-2g-engine-bay-electrical-connections-2.html

    I think fixing the fuel problem will bring the car back to life.

    The fuel pump will not work until the engine cranks, Crank the engine and try to hear the fuel pump, If it doesn't make any noise, just put a light bulb connected to the fuel pump plug, if it turns ON when cranking the engine, then it means you have power, If you have power, then or your pump is not working, or your fuel filter is plugged.

    For now, Just focus on the Fuel, that's all what you need to do, after fixing your fuel problem then give a try and report back, I'm almost (90%) sure that your problem is Just fuel.

    On a side, You have a none turbo set up, even being a turbo car, You have no turbo, Some one just drop a non turbo in and try to make it run without luck.

    Looks like you are about to have better luck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014

    Street Build 462  1

    1997 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 2G DSM

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    manual · 2G DSM
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  7. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    Found the test plug! Thank you. Next question. Do I need my MAP plugged in and attached for the car to run or can I just unplug it? It currently is not reading intake pressure. If not what hose on the intake can I mate it to?
     
  8. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    Milaca, Minnesota
    Update:
    Fuel pump works! It only works when given power to the test plug. I'll update again if it's getting power by itself while turning over.

    Also pulled the return line and turned the pump on. There is fuel! Ignoring the possible wiring problem to the pump for now, what else is there to check now knowing I have fuel, spark, compression and air? I'm going to pull the wiring on the cas next and post a picture.
     
  9. 97SPYDER210

    97SPYDER210 Proven Member

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    san antonio, Texas
    Good. Now youre getting somewhere. Ok so what you can do now is retest the fuel pump. at the same time crank the engine see if will run. Also check for vacuum leaks make sure all lines in on the intake are not leaking. Just leave the map connected and tuck it behind the intake manifold.
     

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    · 2G DSM
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  10. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    Update again: she runs now! With pump on from test plug and a few times turning her over she starts up and idles for 10-20 seconds or so then slowly drops down and dies.
    Note 1: turning the key off and pulling it out of the ignition does NOT kill the car

    Note 2: touching the gas at all makes her die.
     
  11. 97SPYDER210

    97SPYDER210 Proven Member

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    san antonio, Texas
    Step one check all lines running to intake for leaks
    Step two check cam angle sensor for proper wiring RRE Instructions
    Step three check firing order  http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/lib/e...://www.dsmlink.com/images/forums/plugswap.gif use the pic on the right
    Step four rewire injector pins at ecu RRE Instructions
    Step five re start if the car dies go to next step
    Step six  back out the idle screw about one turn at a time this should keep the car idling 
    Step seven ground the timing pin and time the car with a timing gun
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2014

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    · 2G DSM
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  12. Tiki2777

    Tiki2777 Proven Member

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    Omaha, Nebraska
    If your MAP isn't connected to vacuum, she's gonna run pretty bad/stall with any throttle applied.
     

    Street Build 2K  1

    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 2K  1

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM

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    1998 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  13. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    Milaca, Minnesota
    Thank you. You've been a great help and information source.
    As far as the list goes:
    1. I found a hole in an intake hose (refer to pic)
    2. done
    3. changed the plug firing order a few days back according to the diagram.
    4. Have NOT changed the injectors around as I ran into a problem. It's hard to physically unplug the injectors at the plug as they are kinda stuck and already brittle from age, also I looked under the stereo and found the 4 plugs to the ECU. When unplugging one at a time, I couldn't find a plug that had exactly the same amount of wires/pins in it as compared to the PRE inst. link NOR did the plugs seem to have the same color wiring as compared to it either. Maybe I just overlooked it and/or looked too hard and it's staring me in the face.
    5. done
    6. will have to try the idle screw. had no idea these cars had one.
    7. yeeaaah no idea how to set timing even when looking at the steps to set it, also I don't have this "timing gun"
     

    Attached Files:

  14. 97SPYDER210

    97SPYDER210 Proven Member

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    san antonio, Texas
    No problem glad I can help. This is how it is when coming into the dsm world in no time you'll know your car inside and out. Are you sure your looking at the ecu? To access the ecu plugs you have to remove the side panel on the driver side on the gas pedal side you should see a gold box http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSpPwMd8X1uGSnEJ9zptLdgXwOhwGMmSYuHvo6ukiwZcZZkLlU3Ow

    http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRquyFV0RuKHvELmj4Cu33bUjUGLGyU7UOaa-lbQoRpV447Evkdjg the wires toward the front

    http://www.hadesomega.info/gallery/...ownloadItem&g2_itemId=90910&g2_serialNumber=2 this is what an ecu plug will look like


    I haven't tried changing the injector plug at the injector. This might already be done . Pull back the cover to each injector and write down the colors of each wire and there location.
     

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    · 2G DSM
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  15. LOLZFWD

    LOLZFWD Proven Member

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    La Crosse, Wisconsin
    I wouldtt even bother with it unless you want to keep it N/A. It is a typical 6bolt swap, or what they thought was typical 6bolt swap...but they got a N/A 6bolt 4g63 out of a 1st gen instead of a 4g63t. Odds are the whole motor is nonturbo.
     
  16. ChiTownHussla

    ChiTownHussla Proven Member

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    Chicago, Illinois
    why hasn't anyone said to put in fresh gas!!!!!
     
    ChiTownHussla

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    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    · 1G DSM
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  17. Rajin

    Rajin Proven Member

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    Cookeville, Tennessee
    Did you see the posted compression numbers? They are atrocious.
     

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    1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    manual · 2G DSM
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  18. 97SPYDER210

    97SPYDER210 Proven Member

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    Now that's funny
     

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  19. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    Ok. Quick question while I'm under the hood. The 3 rubber hoses coming from the top of the intake. There's a yellow dashed one, a red dashed one and a green dashed one.

    My question is where does the red dashed hose go to? Mine is currently not connected to anything and has a broken black piece of plastic in the end. Also the end of it was running down and behind the motor by the battery plate.
     
  20. Eagle96TalonTSi

    Eagle96TalonTSi Proven Member

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    Did you not pop the hood before you purchased the car? LOL..
     
  21. bryanwheat

    bryanwheat DSM Wiseman

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    Columbia, Missouri
    That isn't a map sensor first off, it is a manifold differential pressure. It has nothing to do with the fuel adjustment, it is just there for the egr system. The car will run fine the way it is.
     
  22. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    Milaca, Minnesota
    Alright! I had a good few hours with the car today. The weather was "decent" so I figured I'd take advantage. I'm going to describe EXACTLY everything I did today and what the car does while running in great precise detail so anybody that reads this will be better informed and might possibly have another idea.

    First, I put the car on the battery charger. I assume I still have a short somewhere that I haven't found yet since the battery is almost completely dead in a day or two of sitting. Then I started with removing all the intake vacuum hoses from the 3 plugs on the top of the intake manifold. I replaced them all with new hose cut to length. The only problem I ran into was the red hose which is the very bottom hose when looking at the motor from the front of the car. That red dash-lined hose went down off the manifold and was sitting out in the open behind the battery plate. After some research I read that it possibly goes to the BOV, which of course is bypassed for obvious reasons.

    Next thing I did was unwrap all the tape on the the CAS and injectors to see what kind of wiring was changed before me. I checked all the wiring and the CAS is wired the right way according to the diagram. The injectors seem to be unchanged from the harness (no cuts or splicing) but they are wired as follows (starting at the timing belt):
    1: Red/Blue stripe - Green/no stripe (closest to timing belt)
    2: Yellow/Black stripe - Green/Black stripe
    3: Green/Red stripe - Green/Yellow stripe
    4: Green/Red stripe - Green/no stripe

    I "could" be wrong on those two green/no stripe wires maybe having stripes but I couldn't find any. As far as where those are wired at the ECU. I have no idea as I'm not about to stick my head onto that floor until I clean it up...possibly with shampoo...

    And for those of you wondering about the gas, the tank was almost empty when I got it and the first thing I did when getting the car home was check fluids and put about 5 gallons of fresh gas with a can of seafoam into the tank. Other than all that, only things I haven't even touched or checked would be the idle screw and the timing.

    Now on to the next half for those of you that are still reading my long block text post.
    To actually get the car started, I have to turn it over for a few seconds at a time and do that maybe 2-4 times or so. It does seem to start easier when I have the fuel pump turned on constantly by using the test plug.

    As a side note, the starter relay isn't working. It turns over when I bypass it using a single wire, but I picked up a USED relay the other day and that also doesn't allow it to turn over when plugged in and NOT bypassed.

    When turning over it turns for what seems to be one or two strokes then fires on the next. It seems like it fires on the one stroke but doesn't want to pick up and fire more than once or twice. My initial thoughts turn to low compression not being enough "oomph" to kick it over fast enough by itself.

    After turning it over a bit and it finally does pick up and start, it runs at about 2000 rpm constantly along with a high pitched squeaking noise that I can safely assume is one of the pulleys. That continues for about 5 seconds when the squeaking stops suddently and the rpm drops to idle. After dropping down to idle or about 700-900 rpm it really chugs like it's having a hard time staying at an idle. If I left it alone, when it drops to idle, it dies after about 1 second or so of idle. As a note also, when it drops below idle on it's way to dying out completely, it seems to hang at what only seems like a ridiculously low rpm. You can feel the car shake from the motor trying to run at such a low rpm. It sometimes will hang onto that "chug" or "tractor envy rpm" for a few seconds and then either dies or I kill it by mashing the throttle. (mentioned before that the key doesn't kill the motor)
    Another characteristic is that when it is running, I touch the throttle at all, it seems to literally stop the motor completely. The only reference I have to this experience is when I used to ride dirt bike back in the day as a kid. The thumb kill switch I had on the bar was a push and hold switch, not one of those new fancy switches that you just press down and it locks down. When you push that kill switch your motor literally got almost silent and the only thing you could hear was the rpm dropping to nothing. Now if you were to let go of that kill switch before it completely died, it could kick the motor back on and it would pick itself off the floor and jump back to idle.
    Back to my car, it seems to do the same thing. Pressing the throttle down makes the car just stop while you just hear it dropping down to zero. If you let go before the tach goes flat, the car jumps back on like magic. Now naturally I thought it might have been electrical, like a short that was killing the motor but I grew doubtfull when remembering that the throttle is cable of course and also because if you really kind of feathered it you could get it to rev up and get into the 5000 rpm range. So in the end, it WILL respond to throttle and rev up BUT only if feathered and either way it still always wants to die and drop rpm upon initial throttle or holding the throttle open.

    Lastly, again if you're still reading kudos and I appreciate it...it SMOKES!
    The previous owner said it may have an exhaust leak up front. Well I don't know what to think besides the fact that it does seem to have one from around the cat. While running, exhaust obviously makes it out of the tail pipe, but also there is a bit of smoke coming from the back of the motor by the firewall. I haven't been able to see enough of it to determine whether it's blue/white/black, but I can say that it smells burnt....like burning pizza in the oven :D Anyway, it smokes a bit, doesn't idle and wants to die when throttle is applied.

    Again, sorry for the block of text and long winded post. I tried to be as accurate and descriptive as I could be after writing down everything I found while out with the car today. I personally have tons of experience doing mechanic work on sleds/bikes/motorcycles/quads-atv's/etc but not much experience beyond a small engine and even LESS on a DSM. My obvious conclusions I can come up with as to why this car still doesn't run are all used up. I fear this being something more serious wrong. I just hope that it isn't. I'm willing to put time into it and get this motor running again. It just needs to replace my 99 RS as my dd until spring/early summer when I will have recovered financialy to put a new motor in.
     
  23. 95'RS-T

    95'RS-T Proven Member

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    It sounds to me like the car is running rich. Pull your spark plugs out and see if they are black. Did you notice if the check engine light was on? Do you know if the engine has the front o2 sensor and engine coolant temp sensor plugged in? Sounds like you got a real headache there, but at least you got it to fire for a little!
     

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    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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  24. RubberDuckyz

    RubberDuckyz Probationary Member

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    Milaca, Minnesota
    I've pulled the plugs before when I changed them and they were wet, of course the isn't always running to burn it off. I'll check again though and see if they're black or white.
    Check engine light is on. Doesn't go off.
    I'll check for the O2 sensor and coolant sensor.
     
  25. 95'RS-T

    95'RS-T Proven Member

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    You should really invest in a obd II code reader. If you could try to borrow one, or get the codes read it would be a huge help.
     

    445  0

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GST
    · 2G DSM
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