20G/frank finaly on

[man_of_saturn]

No you can run more then 20 psi with it as long as you have the proper supporting mods and you have some sort of logger and know what your doing with it . With race gas you could run abit more boost but again you need the proper supporting mods to do so. As for hp @ 20 psi, bench racing is just a guess. Every setup is different and it depends how well you can tune. I would think you should be in the 400 crank hp range but this could very quite abit, going to the dyno is the only real way to tell

I was going to go to Torque Freaks and have my car tuned an dyno, but then my car broke down and had to get it towed which cost alot. That took all my money so I decide to just play around with it my self.

But once I get the hose and clamps on I'll take it to the track and hope ones points and laughs at me.

Thanks for your info!

Again I'll keep every one posted.

 

[man_of_saturn]

Well I put the T-bolt claps on and took it for a test drive. Was sure what my boost controller was set too, but ended boosting up too 23 lbs then I left off the gas. It pulled pretty hard and scream like a mother. The the blasted hose poped off again. Thinking
about putting some JB or JP weld on it.

Also my waste gate is vented and the blasted thing won't open. I been waiting to here it.
Any one know why?

 

[sweet97]

First fill out your vehicle mod list so we don't have to search this thread for them. Did you get the silicone(rubber)elbow? T-bolts should hold the silicone elbow on just fine. You mean your BOV is vented not the wastegate right? How is it hooked up? Does the turbo squeal when you let off the gas, likke a turkey gobble? If it does then the BOV is not working properly.
Unless you are running race gas run less boost, like about 18PSI. Mod list for the vehicle first, i think I read your mods back in this thread but havimng the vehicle mod list will help guys diagnose your problems easier! Good Luck, mark

 

[spyderturbo007]

Is the hard pipe that you are attaching the silicon pipe to beaded? If it isn't you can always pull the pump pliers on the end trick. Try gently bending the end of the pipe up so that it creates a lip for the silicon coupler to fit over. It will be harder to slip the coupler on, so you may want to use some lube . Then try putting the clamp on and see if that helps. Also, did you try 2 clamps?

As far as HP at 20 psi....there is no way to know. 20psi on a T-25 and 20psi on a 16g are night and day. You can get a good estimate based on airflow (lbs/min) not pressure (psi). Remember airflow = power and pressure = heat. 1lb/min is approx. 10 CHP. That is a ballpark figure you can use, but it's not 100% accurate. Remember when trying to calculate your actual airflow, you need to include the correction factor of the SAFC-II, as the airflow signal is intercepted and modified prior to reaching the ECU. This is assuming that you are using larger injectors and a SAFC-II. If you aren't using a SAFC-II and a logger, you can disregard everything below .

The calculation to determine unmolested airflow is below:

Logger displayed airflow (lbs/min) / (1 - SAFC Correction Factor) = Actual Airflow

Remember you need to use the highest airflow reading and the correction factor associated with that airflow reading for the calculation to be effective. Also, drop the negative sign on the correction factor and convert to a decimal as opposed to a percent. For example, here is mine

19.82 lbs/min displayed on logger @ 6760 rpm
-33% SAFC-II correction factor @ 6760 rpm

19.82 lbs/min / (1 - .33) = 30.03 lbs/min actual airflow.

Using my generalization above you can "guesstimate" that I am pushing about 300 CHP. My actual HP was dynoed at 242.5 WHP. Depending on what you use for drivetrain loss, that's pretty close to the actual.

300 CHP with 15% drivetrain loss = 255 WHP
300 CHP with 20% drivetrain loss = 240 WHP

Wow, I did a lot of babbling in that post, I hope something was helpful

 

[man_of_saturn]

First fill out your vehicle mod list so we don't have to search this thread for them. Did you get the silicone(rubber)elbow? T-bolts should hold the silicone elbow on just fine. You mean your BOV is vented not the wastegate right? How is it hooked up? Does the turbo squeal when you let off the gas, likke a turkey gobble? If it does then the BOV is not working properly.
Unless you are running race gas run less boost, like about 18PSI. Mod list for the vehicle first, i think I read your mods back in this thread but havimng the vehicle mod list will help guys diagnose your problems easier! Good Luck, mark

Mod list updated.

I change my mind about welding it and just did some getto pluming using my old lower intercooler hose and the 90* elbow that I bought. This time the hose stayed on the turbo but one of the sleeves on the intercooler came off. Fixed that so hopefully it good. Haveing
ran it hard yet to see.

I have the wastgate and the bov vented.

When smashing out and I let off the gas a little the BOV whistles. When driving normal the BOV flutters. Is that normal?

The waste gate is hook up the the bottom of the boost controller and the other part of
the boost controller is T-ed to the BOV.

I haven't herd the wastegate vent yet and my exhuast isn't that loud. So I would think that it would be louder then my exhaust.

Thanks!

 

[man_of_saturn]

Is the hard pipe that you are attaching the silicon pipe to beaded? If it isn't you can always pull the pump pliers on the end trick. Try gently bending the end of the pipe up so that it creates a lip for the silicon coupler to fit over. It will be harder to slip the coupler on, so you may want to use some lube . Then try putting the clamp on and see if that helps. Also, did you try 2 clamps?

As far as HP at 20 psi....there is no way to know. 20psi on a T-25 and 20psi on a 16g are night and day. You can get a good estimate based on airflow (lbs/min) not pressure (psi). Remember airflow = power and pressure = heat. 1lb/min is approx. 10 CHP. That is a ballpark figure you can use, but it's not 100% accurate. Remember when trying to calculate your actual airflow, you need to include the correction factor of the SAFC-II, as the airflow signal is intercepted and modified prior to reaching the ECU. This is assuming that you are using larger injectors and a SAFC-II. If you aren't using a SAFC-II and a logger, you can disregard everything below .

The calculation to determine unmolested airflow is below:

Logger displayed airflow (lbs/min) / (1 - SAFC Correction Factor) = Actual Airflow

Remember you need to use the highest airflow reading and the correction factor associated with that airflow reading for the calculation to be effective. Also, drop the negative sign on the correction factor and convert to a decimal as opposed to a percent. For example, here is mine

19.82 lbs/min displayed on logger @ 6760 rpm
-33% SAFC-II correction factor @ 6760 rpm

19.82 lbs/min / (1 - .33) = 30.03 lbs/min actual airflow.

Using my generalization above you can "guesstimate" that I am pushing about 300 CHP. My actual HP was dynoed at 242.5 WHP. Depending on what you use for drivetrain loss, that's pretty close to the actual.

300 CHP with 15% drivetrain loss = 255 WHP
300 CHP with 20% drivetrain loss = 240 WHP

Wow, I did a lot of babbling in that post, I hope something was helpful

On my logger my peak values or:
RPMS 6820
O2v .93
Timing 36
Air flow: 29.59(does that mean I have 295 CHP?)
Sht Trim 16
Lng Trim 12

What should all this mean to me?

I'll try two clamps.

Thanks!

 

[daren_p]

On my logger my peak values or:
RPMS 6820
O2v .93
Timing 36
Air flow: 29.59(does that mean I have 295 CHP?)
Sht Trim 16
Lng Trim 12

What should all this mean to me?

I'll try two clamps.

Thanks!

Ok I havent used a pocket logger but Im assuming the values should be the same as DSMLink. For your 36 deg of timing, @ what rpm are you getting 36 deg? If your seeing 36 deg at the end of you wot pull (redine) you are seeing too much timing (this could be because your using an safc to compensate for injectors?). You should be seeing aroun 18 or so. For your fuel trims they look to be to far off. You want the ltft (low & mid) to be in between -12 to 12, trying for 0. Your trims are showing that you car is running much leaner then it is supposed to. You need to post a wot log (3rd gear from say 2500 to redline) of all the values to really see what going on.

 

[daren_p]

Mod list updated.

I change my mind about welding it and just did some getto pluming using my old lower intercooler hose and the 90* elbow that I bought. This time the hose stayed on the turbo but one of the sleeves on the intercooler came off. Fixed that so hopefully it good. Haveing
ran it hard yet to see.

I have the wastgate and the bov vented.

When smashing out and I let off the gas a little the BOV whistles. When driving normal the BOV flutters. Is that normal?

The waste gate is hook up the the bottom of the boost controller and the other part of
the boost controller is T-ed to the BOV.

I haven't herd the wastegate vent yet and my exhuast isn't that loud. So I would think that it would be louder then my exhaust.

Thanks!

No the BOV shouldn't flutter when you are driving, & are you sure you have the boost controller hooked up correct? You have it connected to the vacuum line on the bov? (not sure if this is the best spot as it see's both vacuum & pressure) I have mine connected to a barb in one of my ic pipes before the ic so it only see's pressure. Then go to the inlet of the mbc & then finally the outlet of the mbc goes to the wg (you are running an internal wg?). What kind of bov are you running?

 

[man_of_saturn]

No the BOV shouldn't flutter when you are driving, & are you sure you have the boost controller hooked up correct? You have it connected to the vacuum line on the bov? (not sure if this is the best spot as it see's both vacuum & pressure) I have mine connected to a barb in one of my ic pipes before the ic so it only see's pressure. Then go to the inlet of the mbc & then finally the outlet of the mbc goes to the wg (you are running an internal wg?). What kind of bov are you running?

I'm running a RFL TurboXs BOV vented and a Tial Wastegate 40mm also vented(which never vents).

I think the BOV is conected correctly, I just don't know by the Wastegate won't vent?

 

[spyderturbo007]

On my logger my peak values or:
RPMS 6820
O2v .93
Timing 36
Air flow: 29.59(does that mean I have 295 CHP?)
Sht Trim 16
Lng Trim 12

What should all this mean to me?

I'll try two clamps.

Thanks!

There isn't much in that post that is very useful, not to be rude .

O2 voltage isn't much help as it is a narrowband sensor and not very accurate. FT's aren't used by the ECU during WOT fuel delivery calculations.

The airflow you posted.....is that unmolested or is that the value displayed on your logger.

As far as the CHP, I would put you in that area. But like I said above, it is not 100% accurate but is a good guess. I have seen a lot of dyno graphs and corresponding airflow numbers and they seem to correlate pretty well.

If your timing is 36 degrees at redline on a 3rd gear pull, there are some issues. That is sky high timing.

I am not sure what you mean by fluttering of the BOV so I can't comment there. Have you done a leak test? Also, you really should recirculate your BOV as opposed to venting it .

It also sounds like you MBC is hooked up correctly. As far as running 20+lbs, that depends on your tune. Until you get your tune in line, I wouldn't go jacking up the boost yet. I didn't look at your mod list, but in the range of 23 - 25psi, you have a real chance of lifting the head if you are on the stock head studs. Don't take that 23 - 25psi as gospel, it varries with every motor/tune.

 

[man_of_saturn]

There isn't much in that post that is very useful, not to be rude .

O2 voltage isn't much help as it is a narrowband sensor and not very accurate. FT's aren't used by the ECU during WOT fuel delivery calculations.

The airflow you posted.....is that unmolested or is that the value displayed on your logger.

As far as the CHP, I would put you in that area. But like I said above, it is not 100% accurate but is a good guess. I have seen a lot of dyno graphs and corresponding airflow numbers and they seem to correlate pretty well.

If your timing is 36 degrees at redline on a 3rd gear pull, there are some issues. That is sky high timing.

I am not sure what you mean by fluttering of the BOV so I can't comment there. Have you done a leak test? Also, you really should recirculate your BOV as opposed to venting it .

It also sounds like you MBC is hooked up correctly. As far as running 20+lbs, that depends on your tune. Until you get your tune in line, I wouldn't go jacking up the boost yet. I didn't look at your mod list, but in the range of 23 - 25psi, you have a real chance of lifting the head if you are on the stock head studs. Don't take that 23 - 25psi as gospel, it varries with every motor/tune.

A weird thing about my turbo is that full boost doesn't ever hit. I mean 23lbs comes at about 4.5K rpms, at that point is when I really get pushed in my seat.

I'll turned my boost down to about 15-18lbs until I get all this tunning stuff figured out.
Very frustrating.

One day I'll get it.

 

[sweet97]

What would you consider "full boost" with your turbo and set-up? Mark

 

[man_of_saturn]

Ok, Got all the clamps set, No leaks or blown conection.
Boost is set to 16lbs and waste gate won't dump.

Any one have any ideas?

 

[sweet97]

If the boost is being controlled to 16 psi and not climbing higher isn't the wastegate working, doing it's job? Mark

 

[man_of_saturn]

If the boost is being controlled to 16 psi and not climbing higher isn't the wastegate working, doing it's job? Mark

You know, that makes sense. So when would the wastegate open? I thought the O2 dump
is loud, I haven't herd a peep out of it.


Beside that I'm happy with my 20g, big difference from the stocker. The boost comes alittle slow though, about 4.5k and pulls all the way to redline. At 16lbs my car feels pretty fast. Can't wait til take it down to the track just see how I compare to other DSMers.

But first I have to figure out how to correct my high timing. My average across my RPMs is about 33. Once I get that done I'll tune it for 20lbs.

 

[man_of_saturn]

I thought my wastgate worked, but I had my boost set to 16lbs and the damn
thing creep up to 23lbs. The wastgate still doesn't vent. Not a peep. Does any one
know why?

Thanks!

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

Mod list updated.

I change my mind about welding it and just did some getto pluming using my old lower intercooler hose and the 90* elbow that I bought. This time the hose stayed on the turbo but one of the sleeves on the intercooler came off. Fixed that so hopefully it good. Haveing
ran it hard yet to see.

I have the wastgate and the bov vented.

When smashing out and I let off the gas a little the BOV whistles. When driving normal the BOV flutters. Is that normal?

The waste gate is hook up the the bottom of the boost controller and the other part of
the boost controller is T-ed to the BOV.

I haven't herd the wastegate vent yet and my exhuast isn't that loud. So I would think that it would be louder then my exhaust.

Thanks!

One question, why do people -T- the MBC and the BOV on the same line? I just drilled and tapped for a pressure fitting on my turbo outlet pipe and run that to the bottom of the MBC. The BOV is proven on this forum to respond better when it has its own dedicated vacuum source. Try running your WG actuator without the MBC in the picture. Do a little more troubleshooting, you're BOUND to figure out what all of your problems are..

 

[suicidal2af]

One question, why do people -T- the MBC and the BOV on the same line? I just drilled and tapped for a pressure fitting on my turbo outlet pipe and run that to the bottom of the MBC. The BOV is proven on this forum to respond better when it has its own dedicated vacuum source. Try running your WG actuator without the MBC in the picture. Do a little more troubleshooting, you're BOUND to figure out what all of your problems are..

Because that regulates boost based off of manifold pressure.

 

[man_of_saturn]

My turbo still boost up to 25+lbs, BC turned down all the way. Wastgate doesn't
not dump.

Again, any ideas?

 

[sweet97]

Just because you don't hear the wastegate does not mean it's not working. If it was not working the boost would skyrocket till something broke. Also my BC is going higher when I crank it down, perhaps you are turning yours higher by mistake? mark

 

[SethA]

My turbo still boost up to 25+lbs, BC turned down all the way. Wastgate doesn't
not dump.

Again, any ideas?

Try what Turbo Talon DL suggested. Completely bypass your boost controller by hooking the line that is T'd into your bov directly to your wastegate actuator. This should make your wastegate open as soon as it's spring pressure is reached. Do this and report the results.

Seth

 

[sweet97]

Try what Turbo Talon DL suggested. Completely bypass your boost controller by hooking the line that is T'd into your bov directly to your wastegate actuator. This should make your wastegate open as soon as it's spring pressure is reached. Do this and report the results.

Seth

I agree, bypass the BC. I don't even use my MBC. I use the actuator arm's spring. Changing the length of the turnbuckle on the end of the actuator arm will change the boost. Mark

 

[scottsee]

Wow, there is alot of things going on in this thread!

Set your boost to what you think is 18. And do a 3rd gear freeway pull 3-7k. Loging only RPM, front o2, timing, airflow. Post her up. Your probably getting high timing becasue your on a lower airflow map. Have you checked your base timing & FP?

Your wategate is working. If it wasn't your boost would never be under 25psi under heavy throddle. Do you know what your wastegate spring pressure is?

 

[man_of_saturn]

Try what Turbo Talon DL suggested. Completely bypass your boost controller by hooking the line that is T'd into your bov directly to your wastegate actuator. This should make your wastegate open as soon as it's spring pressure is reached. Do this and report the results.

Seth

OK, did that and the boost still shot up to 25+ lbs.

So whast does that mean?

Broken BC? or Broken WG?

 

[man_of_saturn]

Wow, there is alot of things going on in this thread!

Set your boost to what you think is 18. And do a 3rd gear freeway pull 3-7k. Loging only RPM, front o2, timing, airflow. Post her up. Your probably getting high timing becasue your on a lower airflow map. Have you checked your base timing & FP?

Your wategate is working. If it wasn't your boost would never be under 25psi under heavy throddle. Do you know what your wastegate spring pressure is?

BC setting is set to 16lbs but now shoots to 25+lbs, so I don't think is working.
I'll post a log.

I have the green spring in the wastgate which I think is 13lbs

Thanks!