20g e85 Injectors Wiseman Help Goals

[ZombieSix]

Need some wiseman help, I dont post threads too often but i feel like directly asking my questions as oppose to reading 50+ different threads will give me a good idea of the direction i am going in and the hardware i will have to purchase to meet my goals, Thanks in advance


Ok so ive been running my 20g on PTE 880cc injectors on 93 pump gas at 24psi with no problems never above 80% idc and i want to switch to E85. I have redone my entire fuel system, rewired wally 255 -6an braided line from tank up, Bigger filter and aeromotive FPR. Im ready to run e85 except for my injectors. I was thinking of going 1650's so i have room to grow but my wiser dsm buddies tell me they are impossible to get to idle correctly without a special voltage upper box and are just crummy injectors overall. They suggest i go with either the FIC 2150 HI Z or the 1100 High Z. I dont want to blow 800 bucks on injectors so the 2150's are out, Im ok with spending the 500 on the 1100cc High-Z injectors but will they leave me any room to upgrade or will they be able to comfortably push my 20g to the max?

My mods list is up to date (my last dyno was with a blown turbo/shit tune/ exhaust leaks so i KNOW i am pushing closer to 320 right now i just need to get back to the dyno to confirm) and I currently have a stock block/head. I plan on dropping some springs/retainers and some 272's in this summer because i really feel like cams are the second most lacking thing in my build. I would like to be around 400-450 AWHP 8k redline and going for about 25 +/-3 PSI of boost in order to achieve my goals. Eventually (hopefully later rather then sooner) when the stock block gives i plan on going with a 6 bolt block forged internals with my 7 bolt head which will also get a nice overhaul and port.

Is this possible on E85 with the FIC 1100 High-Z's? Are my goals realistic enough? Am i gimping myself by not going with the 2150's? Any Suggestions Questions Comments Concerns?

I also do all tuning myself with Ecu Flash / Evoscan so any input for my injector choice/e85/w/e please feel free to add it.

Thanks in advance

 

[Chicken Patty]

Need some wiseman help, I dont post threads too often but i feel like directly asking my questions as oppose to reading 50+ different threads will give me a good idea of the direction i am going in and the hardware i will have to purchase to meet my goals, Thanks in advance


Ok so ive been running my 20g on PTE 880cc injectors on 93 pump gas at 24psi with no problems never above 80% idc and i want to switch to E85. I have redone my entire fuel system, rewired wally 255 -6an braided line from tank up, Bigger filter and aeromotive FPR. Im ready to run e85 except for my injectors. I was thinking of going 1650's so i have room to grow but my wiser dsm buddies tell me they are impossible to get to idle correctly without a special voltage upper box and are just crummy injectors overall. They suggest i go with either the FIC 2150 HI Z or the 1100 High Z. I dont want to blow 800 bucks on injectors so the 2150's are out, Im ok with spending the 500 on the 1100cc High-Z injectors but will they leave me any room to upgrade or will they be able to comfortably push my 20g to the max?

My mods list is up to date (my last dyno was with a blown turbo/shit tune/ exhaust leaks so i KNOW i am pushing closer to 320 right now i just need to get back to the dyno to confirm) and I currently have a stock block/head. I plan on dropping some springs/retainers and some 272's in this summer because i really feel like cams are the second most lacking thing in my build. I would like to be around 400-450 AWHP 8k redline and going for about 25 +/-3 PSI of boost in order to achieve my goals. Eventually (hopefully later rather then sooner) when the stock block gives i plan on going with a 6 bolt block forged internals with my 7 bolt head which will also get a nice overhaul and port.

Is this possible on E85 with the FIC 1100 High-Z's? Are my goals realistic enough? Am i gimping myself by not going with the 2150's? Any Suggestions Questions Comments Concerns?

I also do all tuning myself with Ecu Flash / Evoscan so any input for my injector choice/e85/w/e please feel free to add it.

Thanks in advance

How about some feedback from a Tuner with real #'s?

stock 6 bolt I made 483whp on a single Walbro 255 and PTE 1200cc injectors. With dual walbro 255's same setup made 558whp with same injectors.

My car also made 465whp on same fuel setup which was a single Walbro 255 and PTE 1200's. So therefor, I don't think the 20G will ever make 483whp. But if you get close, worst comes to worst if you need a tad more fuel, you can easily drop in a Walbro 450 and have even more fuel. Hope this helps.

This was in reference to the 1100 High Z's injectors.

 

[ZombieSix]

How about some feedback from a Tuner with real #'s?

stock 6 bolt I made 483whp on a single Walbro 255 and PTE 1200cc injectors. With dual walbro 255's same setup made 558whp with same injectors.

My car also made 465whp on same fuel setup which was a single Walbro 255 and PTE 1200's. So therefor, I don't think the 20G will ever make 483whp. But if you get close, worst comes to worst if you need a tad more fuel, you can easily drop in a Walbro 450 and have even more fuel. Hope this helps.

This was in reference to the 1100 High Z's injectors.

I didn't mean I wanted just Wiseman replies any of you guys who know feel free to answer.
Those are some amazing numbers man so you think the 1100 high z injectors should be enough to cracking 400?

 

[Chicken Patty]

I didn't mean I wanted just Wiseman replies any of you guys who know feel free to answer.
Those are some amazing numbers man so you think the 1100 high z injectors should be enough to cracking 400?

I didn't mean it in that sense, my apologies. I meant it as in why not pitch in if I actually tune cars and can give you first hand experience on different setups I've tuned you know.

But yeah, that'll get you to 400whp on E85 for sure.

 

[srt4toDSMwoot]

I know this is an old post but im surprised by the high cc injectors needed to run these 2.0's, Im new to dsm, my srt4 I was running 425hp on 750cc injectors on e85. Dont get me wrong, I was pushing it too the max, spraying 20 percent more fuel then stock walbro255 at 5-6krpms, the dsp tuner i had maxxed out at 25percent. Obv i needed bigger. But why do these cars need such damn big injectors! I seriously just went out yesterday and picked up a AEM fuel rail with gauge and 720cc RC eng injectors for $100, I though yea, with my 20g turbo i surely could run e85! From what these post and other post say, i guess im wrong.... Can anyone confirm im wrong?

 

[bigbird94]

I know this is an old post but im surprised by the high cc injectors needed to run these 2.0's, Im new to dsm, my srt4 I was running 425hp on 750cc injectors on e85. Dont get me wrong, I was pushing it too the max, spraying 20 percent more fuel then stock walbro255 at 5-6krpms, the dsp tuner i had maxxed out at 25percent. Obv i needed bigger. But why do these cars need such damn big injectors! I seriously just went out yesterday and picked up a AEM fuel rail with gauge and 720cc RC eng injectors for $100, I though yea, with my 20g turbo i surely could run e85! From what these post and other post say, i guess im wrong.... Can anyone confirm im wrong?

You are wrong.

 

[Seamus]

720cc is a great pump gas injector for a 20g. But look at injector calculators like rc engineerings and compensate 35 percent or so additional capacity for ethanol and you'll see that it's just not a lot of injector for that fuel. You can look back and see it was uncommon to see people running much bigger than 850cc. Back when i got into dsm's the quickest guy in the world had 650's and was twisting knobs while watching a Tmo logger or some shit. But dsmlink and increased use of standalone a made using bigger injectors easy, and e85 made it nessecary.

 

[Chicken Patty]

I know this is an old post but im surprised by the high cc injectors needed to run these 2.0's, Im new to dsm, my srt4 I was running 425hp on 750cc injectors on e85. Dont get me wrong, I was pushing it too the max, spraying 20 percent more fuel then stock walbro255 at 5-6krpms, the dsp tuner i had maxxed out at 25percent. Obv i needed bigger. But why do these cars need such damn big injectors! I seriously just went out yesterday and picked up a AEM fuel rail with gauge and 720cc RC eng injectors for $100, I though yea, with my 20g turbo i surely could run e85! From what these post and other post say, i guess im wrong.... Can anyone confirm im wrong?

I would say minimum 1000's. Out of personal experience, a Walbro 255, and PTE 1200's maxed out for me at 483whp. So you definitely need at least 1000's to be comfortable with that setup. This is all on E85 of course.

 

[spin1r6]

I have run 950's on e85 to 404hp/398tq an 10.8 1/4 at 95% duty cycle and 43lbs/min airflow. Airflow is going to be your determining factor for injector size. For your hp goals the 1100's will get you there with a safe % left however it will leave very little room for future upgrading. 2150's are expensive but its a 1 time upgrade, it will be the last injectors you ever need to buy.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Grab some 1120s from fic and youll be good to run e 85 and pump, unless or go bigger and spend more dollars for larger ones, but for your 20g you shouldn't need that much fuel.

 

[Afizzle]

I'm running FIC 750s on E85 and 25 psi on a bastard 20g. It's flowing 42 lb/ m and my IDC% is 95-100% at WOT targeting 12.5:1.

Also running a wal 255, 8 an fuel lines, huge AEM filter, AEM Rail, and Aero AFPR... All of it helps.

As for the 1600s you mentioned, it's all going to depend on brand and impedance. Grab some ID High Zs and you're going to have no problem dialing in a nice smooth idle with proper tuning programs like Link or AEM or Evo 8 ECU.

Now anything above 1000-1100cc and low impedance, you're looking at some issues with dialing in.

Just my 2 c

 

[Chicken Patty]

I'm running FIC 750s on E85 and 25 psi on a bastard 20g. It's flowing 42 lb/ m and my IDC% is 95-100% at WOT targeting 12.5:1.

Also running a wal 255, 8 an fuel lines, huge AEM filter, AEM Rail, and Aero AFPR... All of it helps.

As for the 1600s you mentioned, it's all going to depend on brand and impedance. Grab some ID High Zs and you're going to have no problem dialing in a nice smooth idle with proper tuning programs like Link or AEM or Evo 8 ECU.

Now anything above 1000-1100cc and low impedance, you're looking at some issues with dialing in.

Just my 2 c

Yep, 1600's are a must in Hi Impedance. I've had great success up to 1200's in lo impedance. From there I've jumped to 1600's and trust me, you'll hate them if they are lo impedance.

 

[jed344]

I am running a frank 3 20g flowing 44lb/min right now at 23-24psi with FIC 1050cc injectors and i am seeing about 75% IDC. That's on e85 also. My car idle's great took a little time to dial it in and sometimes it will have a random hick up for a second not sure why but for sure still a great idle.

 

[96accordsir]

I'm also surprised to see the difference from other cars. a friend of mine had low impedance pte 880s on his civic making 510whp on e85. seems crazy.

 

[JRSTANGE]

The larger the injectors the harder it is to get tuned right when running pump gas. However, the larger the injectors running e85 I found tuning isn't bad at all given the 30% drop in global settings. So you wouldn't be putting 1600cc in the injectors size but, 1120cc. For example when I ran 1000cc for e85 it was set for 700cc roughly. Therefore in my experience I haven't needed an injector driver box/resistors. In addition I am running a tdo6 20G and doing fine on duty cycle as well. in my experience 25psi on e-85 I am seeing in 80% duty cycle and at times barely breaking into the 90% range. I went to 1600cc just to ensure when going to 28-30psi my duty cycles wont be any thing to worry about.

 

[Chicken Patty]

The larger the injectors the harder it is to get tuned right when running pump gas. However, the larger the injectors running e85 I found tuning isn't bad at all given the 30% drop in global settings. So you wouldn't be putting 1600cc in the injectors size but, 1120cc. For example when I ran 1000cc for e85 it was set for 700cc roughly. Therefore in my experience I haven't needed an injector driver box/resistors. In addition I am running a tdo6 20G and doing fine on duty cycle as well. in my experience 25psi on e-85 I am seeing in 80% duty cycle and at times barely breaking into the 90% range. I went to 1600cc just to ensure when going to 28-30psi my duty cycles wont be any thing to worry about.

Also depends on the injector. I have tuned 2200's on pump gas and they drive absolutely perfect. Hi impedance of course.

 

[dfootedsm]

digging this one up again. I am currently using a Wally 255 and just picked up some 1450's low Z on a bastard 20g I want to break into the 400whp. Anyone in this thread on the same or similar setup?

 

[JRSTANGE]

Well, I tuned those 1600cc Bosch injectors and had no problem tuning them. Idle was a bit of a pita due to the latency, but it was doable and with patience I got it dialed in. In the end I made an exchange to a friend who reguired larger injectors and traded y 1600 for his 1200.

Point being at least for the Bosch 1600c I had very little problems over all with tuning and drivability etc.. As noted I wouldn't dare try and run them on pump gas.

sorry for the year later response. Also just got the car running again this week. took longer than expected.

 

[newdsmtnr96]

I would like to know more about this, (I know this is a old thread but proves that people still search threads) I currently am a Billet 7 blade 20g, with 280 cams, 1150 Fic's running 32 psi (I have a rebuilt engine with forged internals and arp's the whole works) Would like to know what power people are making. So far at 32 psi my injectors are at 63%. I also have a Vrspeed Fmic tho and running E85. Car pulls like a raped ape. But I think I'm pushing my 20g a little far cause starting to smoke on really high boost.

 

[GSLENK]

I would like to know more about this, (I know this is a old thread but proves that people still search threads) I currently am a Billet 7 blade 20g, with 280 cams, 1150 Fic's running 32 psi (I have a rebuilt engine with forged internals and arp's the whole works) Would like to know what power people are making. So far at 32 psi my injectors are at 63%. I also have a Vrspeed Fmic tho and running E85. Car pulls like a raped ape. But I think I'm pushing my 20g a little far cause starting to smoke on really high boost.

32psi on E85 is nothing for a 20g frame turbo. I do 38psi pretty regularly on a FP red. Being a Journal bearing turbo, this might shorten the lifespan between rebuilds a little. 32psi shouldn't cause smoke. Blue and you might be pushing oil (burning oil) through the turbo, white smoke and you might be pushing coolant by lifting the head.