Resolved 1G Tried everything, clutch still won't disengage

[DarthBulk]

My clutch will not disengage. I have a brand new ACT 2600 and ACT Streetlite flywheel. Here is the short version of what I have tried already.

Fully rebuilt my clutch pedal assembly. See the thread here http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196048

Brand new master and slave cylinders

Brand new clutch fork pivot ball

Brand new braided SS clutch line

Bled the clutch system correctly (trust me). Clutch would not disengage

When it wouldn't disengage, I tried shimming the pivot ball with 2 washers. Now the end of my clutch fork leans to the driver's side correctly like in the RRE diagram.

Clutch still wouldn't disengage, so I tried the longer slave cylinder rod. Still didn't work.

Today I took out my master cylinder, cut the rod and welded in another 1/2 inch of rod so I would have more adjustment. Adjusted this all the way out (in small steps), and clutch STILL will not disengage.

To be honest, I never checked the step height on the flywheel, because I assumed that ACT knew what they were doing when they machined this brand new flywheel. Am I right to make that assumption?

When I adjust the rod under the dash on the master cylinder out of the clevis, I get resistance in the clutch pedal farther and farther up. I can adjust it so that I feel resistance right near the top, and I feel resistance in it all the way to the floor. I never feel a change in this resistance...it just feels heavy all the way to the floor. If I adjust the rod the other way, all it does is give me more and more free play at the top before I feel the resistance.

Now I am at a loss. What else can I possibly do? I am sick of planting my head under the dash, removing the transmission, etc. This is killing me. I have my car running with a slightly modified AEM EMS basemap now, and I want to get it on the road and do some tuning! If I can't think of something else to try, I am going to have the car towed to a shop and let them figure it out (I can't believe I said that, after doing my entire build up to this point by myself). I am in dire need of suggestions.

 

[Drifte]

I wish I could help. For the last year my clutch has been working great and yesterday i went to shift from 1st to 2nd and it wouldnt. i lost all pedal pressure and it wont disengage...

i am also at a loss. classes started today and my car is in a random parking lot.

 

[DarthBulk]

I know how you feel, it sucks when your car runs but you can't drive it because the clutch won't disengage. I hope you get yours figured out too. If I can offer any advice I will. After all the work I did on mine, I just called AMS and got on their waiting list to have them fix my clutch and tune my AEM EMS as long as I will have the car there. They are backed up on tuning, but have openings for regular work. I just want to get it all done at once.

In the mean time, I am still open to suggestions on anything else that I can try, to get this blasted clutch to work.

 

[quest49s]

I'm sure you probably already checked this out cause you know your way around dsms but Is it the shifter linkage? If the clutch is in and you start it in 1st does it move? i know may seem dumb just throwing stuff out there that hasen't been mentioned yet.

I mean how do you know it won't disengage? because it won't go into gear while the car is running? i'm just trying to clearify.

Good luck

 

[DarthBulk]

All help is welcome Regarding the linkage, when the car is not running I can shift it into all the gears fine. But while the car is running, it will not shift into gear even with the clutch pedal pressed to the floor. Also, if I bump the starter while the car is in gear, and the clutch pedal to the floor, the car will move. So I am assuming that means the clutch is not disengaging.

 

[TSIfreek]

Did you try putting a washer under the clutch fork pivit ball?? This gives alot more clutch adjustment. I to had to take my trany out twice and that was the problem. I would call ACT on the flywheel height Im sure they have a base number they machine them to but always need to double check them even if new.

 

[DarthBulk]

Thanks for the reply, and yes I did try the washer-under-the-pivot-ball already. That was really frustrating, taking the transmission out twice and putting one washer under that ball each time. So I have two washers under there now. It still doesn't seem to help.
I wonder if there is a difference with the G4CS crankshaft that I have? I have a flywheel for a 4G63. Would the G4CS crankshaft cause some problems? The flywheel and clutch bolted up fine, but maybe there is some difference in this crankshaft?

 

[AL92]

The g4cs crank is no problem but you might have had to take out insert in end of crank that is there in auto cars. If you didn't that might be your problem.I put in a act flywheel and hd 4000 sbr clutch.Used new fork ,new pivot ball, no shims. This is in a 2g though.Clutch works fine but did have to mess with adjustment.
If you can't get gears usually you are too close to the floor. and car can move in neutral another tip off.
1st and reverse grind bad if you are too close to the floor in your adjustment.
You can have the car running and keep moving the clutch pedal out from floor until you start getting into gears and then make sure you get into 1st and reverse smoothly if those are going in the rest are no problems.

You can try slave extender rods easier than pulling the trans to shim the stupid ball.

I would still think if system is bled that is simply adjustment problem.Go farther out from floor at some point it should let the gears go in unless you have broken things in there..fork,springs popped out something weird.

 

[DarthBulk]

I did take that insert out of the end of the crank that was for the automatic transmission, so I guess there shouldn't be any other dimensions that are different at the end of the crankshaft if yours worked ok. So you are saying that I can start the car, and if I can't get the car into gear with the pedal to the floor, I should slowly let the pedal up until I can get it into gear? If there is a point where it does go into gear, then I should be able to adjust that point to the floor, using the master cylinder rod? I looked at the clutch springs and fingers the two times I had the transmission off, and they still look like new with no marks or anything on them.

 

[Dream On]

I couldn't get my car to disengage for about 3 months. I did everything you said and it turned out to be the pressure plate studs I used with FP's flywheel bolt kit. In case you used them, use the stock pressure plate bolts. They wouldn't let the pressure plate sit flush against the flywheel with only 20 ft. lbs of torque. Some sides didn't even touch the flywheel...

 

[qwklil4]

Try this. Take the 'C' bracket that the clutch master rod threads into (you can take this out in 5-10 min from under the dash) and weld on 2 more nuts. Your problem is simply not enough travel. It also helps to cut a hole in the carpet where the clutch goes, and you'll also find a stud that sticks maybe a half inch from the floorboard. Get that bi*** out of there, just grab some pliers and remove. My foot was hitting that when trying to get all possible travel out of the clutch. Good luck.

 

[DarthBulk]

I saw that the carpet is pretty thick where the clutch pedal bottoms out, along with some insulation. But I already took out the master cylinder and cut that rod, welded in another 1/2 inch of rod, and now have an entire 1/2 inch extra of adjustment in that rod. That still didn't help, unfortunately.

 

[92awddsm]

Have you checked the pedal assembly for wear? Scroll down to clutch adjustment on this link and read about it.

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/clutchandflywheeltech.htm

 

[DarthBulk]

Maybe you missed my first post in this thread

 

[qwklil4]

Knowing everything you've said so far, heres what I would do.

Take out the extended slave rod, it can lead to slave cylinder problems. While doing this check the slave for leaks (I know you said it was new, just do it) peel back the boot and see if theres fluid.

Check the master for leaks too, on the master and slave be sure to push in the rod and see if anything squirts out.

If those check out ok, and assuming everthing regarding the clutch and clutch fork etc is fine (i dont see how it couldnt) just put 2 nuts on the c-clip. Its too easy not too. As you know its only one cotter pin and unthreading the MC.

Let us know how it works out

 

[PSIcho]

Not sure if you've done this already but... Have you tried having somebody depress the clutch in for you while you look under at the slave cylinder to see how far its pushing the fork? It should push it all the way to the passenger side and hold it without losing pressure. This will at least lead you to which half you need to troubleshoot first.

 

[wishihadatalon]

How is it bled? Back the master rod out and bleed and then adjust. Also yes extended rods are crap. Its a bandaid for a bigger problem.

 

[DarthBulk]

Not sure if you've done this already but... Have you tried having somebody depress the clutch in for you while you look under at the slave cylinder to see how far its pushing the fork? It should push it all the way to the passenger side and hold it without losing pressure. This will at least lead you to which half you need to troubleshoot first.

I did this, but I don't know how far the fork is supposed to move. If it is supposed to move all the way to the passenger side, it isn't getting there. But it definitely holds it's position.

How is it bled? Back the master rod out and bleed and then adjust. Also yes extended rods are crap. Its a bandaid for a bigger problem.

Believe me, I don't want to use the extended rods. But when EVERYTHING in the clutch mechanism is new, including a matched ACT 2600 clutch and Streetlite flywheel (and everything that I stated in my original post), and the clutch will still not disengage, then I want to know what the "bigger problem" is. That is what I am looking for suggestions for.
The clutch is bled properly. I have done this plenty of times, and I followed the procedure that is detailed numerous times on this site and others.

 

[PSIcho]

I did this, but I don't know how far the fork is supposed to move. If it is supposed to move all the way to the passenger side, it isn't getting there. But it definitely holds it's position.

Looking at RRE's pic. (http://www.roadraceengineering.com/eclipsetech/clutch/armcentered.jpg). First, is your's centered as depicted. And, does it move all the way to the left (passenger side), you mentioned it doesn't. If possible, I'd try to move that fork manually as far over to the passenger side, with a crescent wrench if you can squeeze it in there, then compare it to how far the slave cylinder is pushing it. Then, if the slave cylinder is not going as far then perhaps the pressure is not enough from the slave and/or master cylinder.

The problem I had before had similar symptoms, turns out to be the slave cylinder was bad. The slave cylinder was pushing the fork and holding but wasn't enough to go that last quarter inch or so to disengage the clutch.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Bent fork is possible. But if your fork is facing the drivers side and you still can't get it to disengage I would say the system isn't building enough pressure. Its probably not uncommon to get a junk master or slave from a parts store.

 

[DarthBulk]

Yes, I followed the RRE guide to make sure my clutch fork is in the right position. That is why I added the washers under the pivot ball. I'll have to check how far the slave cylinder pushes it again, but I remember it was not pushing it all the way to the passenger side. It just doesn't seem to have enough range of motion. It is brand new, and it is holding the pressure, and there are no leaks...it just doesn't seem to move far enough.

 

[DarthBulk]

Bent fork is possible. But if your fork is facing the drivers side and you still can't get it to disengage I would say the system isn't building enough pressure. Its probably not uncommon to get a junk master or slave from a parts store.

Thanks, I guess I could try a different slave cylinder...they aren't that expensive. But if I can't get this to work, I will just let AMS figure it out, once I make it to the top of their waiting list.

 

[wishihadatalon]

Thanks, I guess I could try a different slave cylinder...they aren't that expensive. But if I can't get this to work, I will just let AMS figure it out, once I make it to the top of their waiting list.

Good luck. I went through this crap last year and it took forever to get my car where its at

 

[PSIcho]

Thanks, I guess I could try a different slave cylinder...they aren't that expensive. But if I can't get this to work, I will just let AMS figure it out, once I make it to the top of their waiting list.

I'd check the range of motion by moving the fork manually first if I were you, save yourself from buying another slave cylinder. If you can't move it farther than what the rod is doin then the problem maybe inside the tranny.

 

[DarthBulk]

I'll check that too, but moving an ACT 2600 manually is not easy