1g base timeing/confusing

[4g63t]

ok heres the dealeo Im not sure what is going on when ever i get on it 10psi around 5-6 grand it starts buckin around and bogging out. I replaced my plugs fuel filter and was going to check my base timeing and it was way advanced. My dataloger was reading around 23 when it was at idel 1000 rpms. I was thinking that is ware my problem was because it is saposto be set at 5. The closes i could get it was 8 so i set it and went for a 1st and 2nd gear pull and it bogged out a lot worse than befor at like 4 grand at 6psi... My car runs alot beter when it is way advanced it stars out at 23 and whn i do a pull it goes from 23 to 5 then it detonates all over hell. I think my timeing belt is off a toth or i have to dagree my cams in with adj gears. thats all I can think of. Please help me out i just rebuilt the whole thing and this is kinda a buzz kill

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

sounds like you have a boost leak.. do a boost leak test....

And how are you adjusting your timing? You have to ground out the timing connector under the dash to do it right

This is how to adjust the timing.
http://www.plymouthlaser.com/timin.htm

I cannot find the link on how to do a boost leak test... search a bit and you will find it...

 

[4g63t]

I got the timing light out and I did not ground that wire. Is it a black with a white stripe? or pink or yellow those are the onley wiers that are around there .

 

[4g63t]

i set the timeing at 5 then i went for a cuppel of pulls and it runs like shit. I advanced it to about 23 (according to my logger) and it runs beter but stil bogs out and studers around 5-6kbdoes this mean my timing belt is off or what?

 

[Calan]

What DJYoshaBYD said... make sure you are grounding the timing wire AND unplug your logger from the diagnostic port. Otherwise your ECU will keep trying to compensate for your timing (or you'll be in BISS adjustment mode).

With the timing wire grounded, you are taking the ECU out of the loop and can acurately set the base timing, and the range which the ECU has to work with.

The ground wire is in a small plastic plug next to the firewall by the battery. Just attach a ground clip to it and a good chassis ground point.

Make sure you do this correctly (you'll probably hear your idle change when you ground the wire and the ECU gives up control of the timing). If so and your timing is properly set to 5*, then start checking for boost leaks, ignition issues, etc.

 

[tom04841]

Dont go by your logger. Set the timing according to the vfaq. Ground the connector near the battery, make sure your idle is @ 750 rpms. no accessories on, and car up to normal operating temp. Now adjust your timing according to the marks on the timing belt cover.

 

[Dream On]

I think you've got to ground one of the pins on the diagnostic port also. And yes, it is the one with black and white wires on the plug (timing connector).

 

[steve]

I think you've got to ground one of the pins on the diagnostic port also. And yes, it is the one with black and white wires on the plug (timing connector).

No the pin (10) on the DLC must not be grounded or you will be in BISS adjustment mode.
Only the timing adjust connector by the battery should be grounded and the datalogger mush be disconnected since it grounds the pin on the DLC under the dash.

The diagram I have shows the timing adjust connector as having a yellow with black stripe wire running to it and that matches the connector on my car. The black with white stripe wire your refering to I believe is the fuel pump check connector and grounding it is a bad idea since the MPI relay puts 12v on it.

Steve

 

[slugsgomoo]

unplug your logger, ground the timing connector on the firewall, and then check timing with a light as Steve said.

If you leave your logger plugged in you'll get erroneous readings that will cause you bizarre behavior even if your timing "looks" right under the light. My recollection is that it will bounce around though.

 

[4g63t]

Yes I did that, The grounding of the wire that is, it just allows your ecu to not advance your timing so you can set it. I also had my dataloger totally disconnected from my car. I did that with no luck car is still being erratic and a PITA. Could this have to do with my 264/272 cams?? do i need to degree them in and buy adj gears? or is my car off a tooth in timing. Or is it something else. I did a boost leak test today and it held 20psi on my boost gauge but it slowly leaked out from some ware i don't know. Is there anyway to see if my crank is in tdc to check my gears? my gears line up but i cant see the crank do to the timing cover. The car runs grate except when trying to boost at about 10 pounds. Please, what do you guys think I want to get this thing done.

 

[Dream On]

No the pin (10) on the DLC must not be grounded or you will be in BISS adjustment mode.
Only the timing adjust connector by the battery should be grounded and the datalogger mush be disconnected since it grounds the pin on the DLC under the dash.

The diagram I have shows the timing adjust connector as having a yellow with black stripe wire running to it and that matches the connector on my car. The black with white stripe wire your refering to I believe is the fuel pump check connector and grounding it is a bad idea since the MPI relay puts 12v on it.

Steve

Damn, I guess I'm wrong on both counts. My apologies guys. I could have sworn that mine was black and white, but maybe I've been grounding the wrong plug.

 

[steve]

Here is the timing adjust connector http://members.shaw.ca/dsm.1000q/Engineprimer/1G/timingconn.htm

Here is the fuel pump check connector
http://members.shaw.ca/dsm.1000q/Engineprimer/1G/fuelpumptestconn.htm

You note that look quite different.

Also there are 91's where the fuel pump connector was omitted from the harness. There is a TSB on the issue.

Steve

 

[4g63t]

So, about My questions.?

 

[Dream On]

I used the right plug for the timing I guess. My plug has a yellow wire with a red stripe on it. I just checked.

 

[4g63t]

hey guys I looked at my logger closer and my low trim is at 139. This means im really lean but I have 780cc injectors and my ecu chipped for them. If i set my base timeing and my car is running lean (at idel ) then my timeing numbers are going to be off because it will be advancing my timeing when im runing so lean at idel. Would this have anything to do with my problems. Do i have to up my SAFC setings to get my low lean trim up.???????

 

[steve]

hey guys I looked at my logger closer and my low trim is at 139%. This means I'm really lean but I have 780cc injectors and my ecu is chipped for them. If I set my base timeing and my car is running lean then my timeing numbers are going to be off because it will be advancing my timeing when I'm runing so lean at idle.

Interesting conjecture but not really accurate. First you are lean but you don't know how lean because you have maxed out the low fuel trim. If it had been 130 or so then you would need to figure out whe it was so low but the ECU would have corrected for it so the net would have been 14.7:1 like it should be. But with 139% the ECU has added as much fuel as it's programming can and that still wasn't enough based on what the O2 sensor was telling it.

Regardless, it has nothing to do with setting your base timing.

Now you might be needing fuel added for may reasons. The first is that your O2 sensor is old and slow, then your fuel filter could be old and plugged, or your injectors might not flow exactly what you expected, or the deadtime is off in the programming. Perhaps your fuel pressure is lower than normal or you have a vacuum leak sucking in unmetered air causing the ECU not to inject the right amout of fuel. A stock vented BOV is also a vacuum leak at idle.

So what do you think the cause is?

Perhaps this is the reason you car boggs and bucks?
Since you have a datalogger you might want to capture a log when the car is having problems so we have something concrete to work with.

Steve