2G 10 sec trans. who should I go with?

[mikgsxx]

ok guys. Looking for some advice. I currently have a shep rebuild/upgrade. No problems. Im looking to remove and have built. Looking to go low 10s. There are a few good options. Shep. Tre jacks tmz. Anyone have Any recommendations on any of those builders?

 

[BlackGSXEclipse]

All of them use OEM parts, there's no "real" built trans until you go dog box

 

[Archer Fabrications]

What stage shep trans do you currently have? I have a stage 3 shep and i dont see it being an issue to those times. I was just looking into the liberty face plating brought up in another recent thread.

 

[gofer]

I currently have a Shep built trans that's got all the crap, nice but like said above it's "built" with OE parts plus a few things that make it stronger. Granted, the OE parts that they upgrade to are double-syncro OE that are in the Evo I-III transmissions so you're still improving on the stock DSM transmission and making it stronger.

That being said, if I needed to build a 5-speed all over again I'd get the TRE stage 4 or Jacks Drag Trans Super-HD transmissions. Shep no longer builds DSM transmissions but in hindsite, I wish I had gone straight to either of these builders in the first place because of cost and quality.

 

[mikgsxx]

Mines just the basic shep stage 1. Your not the first ive herd wishing they went a diff route. If been eyeball ing the tmz stage 5 drag tranny with lsd. Anyone running one?

 

[Tiki2777]

To be honest I wouldn't go with Jacks anything, but I do completely agree on the TRE tranny. TRE shot peens their gears to actually strengthen them too.

 

[bling5tatus]

According to BastardDSM the PPG gear sets aren't really all that fantastic.... I'd say use an auto transmission if you want something reliable. If you're stuck on using a 5 speed then I'd say get a clutch that lets go before the expensive transmission parts let go.... kinda like running a composite head gasket.

 

[donniekak]

You should learn how to build transmissions if you plan on driving the car any amount.

A built trans is a trans that is shimmed tighter, with new stock parts, and maybe a welded diff. There are some ways to treat the gears, but they are still factory parts from a 200hp car.

The evo 3-4 setup isn't any stronger either. It just shifts much better. The strongest 3-4 setup is out of the 1990 transmissions.

If you weld the center diff, you won't ever break it launching. But there really is no way to stop stripping the teeth from 3-4 with factory parts.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I currently have a Shep built trans that's got all the crap, nice but like said above it's "built" with OE parts plus a few things that make it stronger. Granted, the OE parts that they upgrade to are double-syncro OE that are in the Evo I-III transmissions so you're still improving on the stock DSM transmission and making it stronger.

That being said, if I needed to build a 5-speed all over again I'd get the TRE stage 4 or Jacks Drag Trans Super-HD transmissions. Shep no longer builds DSM transmissions but in hindsite, I wish I had gone straight to either of these builders in the first place because of cost and quality.

I think shep would rebuild an existing customers dsm trans.. The new guys were the flakes leaving their cores and bitching about repir cost.

What are your guys' complaints about the shep? I havnt had a single issue with mine, and i didn't even do the double synchro option... I did however decide on a 4 spyder and if it breaks I'll weld it, and It's a little notchy going into 3rd but in pretty positive it's due to shot shift cables. Otherwise no issues here. Shep recomended 1-2qt of light weight shockproof and 1 qt of mt90 and change it often for 600ish whp/torque, i know jack thinks the opposite of this though.

 

[donniekak]

No complaints. It's just that all dsm transmissions have a built in counter for high power 3-4 pulls. When you run hit the magic number the teeth come off.

 

[gofer]

I think shep would rebuild an existing customers dsm trans.. The new guys were the flakes leaving their cores and bitching about repir cost.

What are your guys' complaints about the shep? I havnt had a single issue with mine, and i didn't even do the double synchro option... I did however decide on a 4 spyder and if it breaks I'll weld it, and It's a little notchy going into 3rd but in pretty positive it's due to shot shift cables. Otherwise no issues here. Shep recomended 1-2qt of light weight shockproof and 1 qt of mt90 and change it often for 600ish whp/torque, i know jack thinks the opposite of this though.

I went with Shepherd to build my transmission because of his reputation in the DSM community, I didn't want to budget a transmission build and regret it later. I sent them my '99 M/T and 1mo. I got my stage IV (w/ 4 spider CD, LSD, Evo 1st, 3rd, 4th gear and REM ISF treatment) and I couldn't have been happier.

Seems very minuscule but the first 6mos. I had it I couldn't keep a working VSS for more than 2 days before my speedo would stop working. I'd pull it out and it would have a flat edge on the teeth, the transmission kept eating them up. I'd order a new one ($20 from the dealer) for a '97-'99 M/T, installed it, and less than 100 miles it would eat the teeth of the VSS gear again and I'd order a new one. I thought maybe I was installing them wrong, etc. After the 4th one and $100 later I called Shep and told him my problem and he said, "Oh, yea, we might have installed a '95-'96 speedo gear in the transmission by accident. Try installing a '95-'96 VSS gear in there and see if it fixes the problem." So, installing a '95-'96 gear did fix the problem which means who knows what else they "accidentally" installed in my $4,000.00 to my door step transmission?

Currently, it's still performing good. Change the fluid every year (no matter how little mileage I put on it) with their recommended 50/50 MT-90 and LW Shockproof mixture, even though every DSM transmission builder besides them recommends against it. It's just the fact that I paid how much for the Shep name and what kind of attention to detail was used during the rebuild? I could have gone to TRE or DSM transmission builder and had the same result, I wouldn't have paid the Shep price for it though.


Don't get me wrong, it's a great transmission but I wouldn't pay the Shep price for it again since IMO it wasn't worth it.

 

[turtlebain]

They're all factory parts with detailing on gears, gear treatments & shimming. Possibly a 4-spider center diff.

I second learning how to build your own. The most technical & tedious part is shimming to your own preference and usage.

I would totally do the 4-spider center diff upgrade ( heck, I did ), or welded if it's a dedicated drag car.

Also If it's a drag car, you may want to keep a spare trans ready to swap in if s#%! hits the fan while at the track. That way you reduce downtime and you can take your time building the spare right.

If you want a truely badass manual, dogbox, straight cut gears. I prefer manual too, I can't see myself going auto for a cut on the quarter mile time. Ever. I just enjoy the experience of a manual too much.

 

[dexterholland04]

Learning to build/shim a DSM manual transmission is a must for anyone making any kind of power. As said before, there is no such thing as a "built" transmission; just rebuilt transmissions with the best OEM parts and shimming specs. There are several things you can do to help extend the life of your transmission/mitigate breakage as much as possible. First, make sure that your clutch is adjusted properly, I know Jacks Transmissions has a video out there that illustrates this process. Second, I am a firm believer in running shift stops. Once you have them adjusted correctly, the chance of breaking shift forks is greatly reduced. Also, running the Magnus billet forks, or the Evo 3 steel forks with the TMZ plastic guide solution definitely helps. Third, as donniekak said: there will come a point where you will make enough power that you will start eating teeth on 3rd gear. Best advice I have is to not do full 3rd gear pulls from down low in the RPM range, unless tuning or dynoing the car.

Choice of fluid is up to you, but I generally would run MT90 in a synchro trans and LWSP in a Liberty faceplated trans. I've had both transmissions, and this seemed to work the best. I still have the Liberty faceplated transmission in my car, it's certainly fun...but it's no PPG transmission in terms of strength. Bottom line: If you expect to make power and drive the car a lot/race a lot, then expect to spend a lot of time keeping the transmission alive.

PS: I went 10.3X on a stock 110k mile transmission, with a welded center diff. It had cheap, Coastal 75w-90 gear oil in it. It's all how you treat it. That transmission never gave me any issues.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I went with Shepherd to build my transmission because of his reputation in the DSM community, I didn't want to budget a transmission build and regret it later. I sent them my '99 M/T and 1mo. I got my stage IV (w/ 4 spider CD, LSD, Evo 1st, 3rd, 4th gear and REM ISF treatment) and I couldn't have been happier.

Seems very minuscule but the first 6mos. I had it I couldn't keep a working VSS for more than 2 days before my speedo would stop working. I'd pull it out and it would have a flat edge on the teeth, the transmission kept eating them up. I'd order a new one ($20 from the dealer) for a '97-'99 M/T, installed it, and less than 100 miles it would eat the teeth of the VSS gear again and I'd order a new one. I thought maybe I was installing them wrong, etc. After the 4th one and $100 later I called Shep and told him my problem and he said, "Oh, yea, we might have installed a '95-'96 speedo gear in the transmission by accident. Try installing a '95-'96 VSS gear in there and see if it fixes the problem." So, installing a '95-'96 gear did fix the problem which means who knows what else they "accidentally" installed in my $4,000.00 to my door step transmission?

Currently, it's still performing good. Change the fluid every year (no matter how little mileage I put on it) with their recommended 50/50 MT-90 and LW Shockproof mixture, even though every DSM transmission builder besides them recommends against it. It's just the fact that I paid how much for the Shep name and what kind of attention to detail was used during the rebuild? I could have gone to TRE or DSM transmission builder and had the same result, I wouldn't have paid the Shep price for it though.


Don't get me wrong, it's a great transmission but I wouldn't pay the Shep price for it again since IMO it wasn't worth it.

Fair enough. I havnt had a single issue with anything...yet sucks about your speed sensor gear, i would have thought it had something to do with evo gears, i have only the evo3 1st and input shaft. Price is up there for sure, and i choose shep for the same reason. But i hear about more failed jacks then Shep's my buddy blew two jacks 2.5 Hd's and hes only been on fp green and black. mine must have had enough detail attention for the so far so good but i am not that hard on it when shifting and i havnt made any signifigant power yet.

Before i sent my trans to shep i opened up the end looked in and just straight said f doing this . I didn't have any of the right equipment for breaking the lock nuts or pulling the gears and no knowelege. Obviously in the ideal world everyone would know how to rebuild their own motor and trans.

 

[mikgsxx]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Anyone running the tmz drag tranny?

 

[mavericktsi83]

Considering 3rd and especially 4th gear are the weakest and common failure point...it would be nice to hear feedback from those running the Jack's 'super HD' trans. What makes this trans different than the rest is the 3rd and 4th gear used with "larger teeth" in the build. Not a lot of info out there. This particular trans is rated at "700 hp". Not sure if that's hype or not. Would like to know if the super HD is a viable solution to striped gears and what kind of longevity people are seeing with this setup?

 

[Tiki2777]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the issue of keeping your transmission cool, (if anyone has a trans cooler would like to chime in, that'd be awesome) because back to back pulls seem to really be an issue with blowing up dsm transmissions. I have other issues to address before the cooler idea, but it's definitely on the to do list.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the issue of keeping your transmission cool, (if anyone has a trans cooler would like to chime in, that'd be awesome) because back to back pulls seem to really be an issue with blowing up dsm transmissions. I have other issues to address before the cooler idea, but it's definitely on the to do list.

I was unaware you even couod run a cooler in our manual trans.....?

 

[hotrodssnova]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the issue of keeping your transmission cool, (if anyone has a trans cooler would like to chime in, that'd be awesome) because back to back pulls seem to really be an issue with blowing up dsm transmissions. I have other issues to address before the cooler idea, but it's definitely on the to do list.

We're talking about a manual transmission here. To circulate a manual transmission'ss oil, you would need a sump, a pump, and a cooler. Pumping gear oil is no easy task for one thing, and a sump?

 

[Tiki2777]

We're talking about a manual transmission here. To circulate a manual transmission'ss oil, you would need a sump, a pump, and a cooler. Pumping gear oil is no easy task for one thing, and a sump?

True... I totally forgot about the pump issue...I knew there was something really tricky about even designing one but that makes sense now that you need those other elements.

 

[hotrodssnova]

Off topic, but I'll address the pump issue. Manual transmissions rely on slinging the lubrication. They have no pump. They do have a drip rail that catches the oil and deposits it on to the 5th gear set at the back of the transmission. That's the only oil circuit in a manual transmission.

 

[donniekak]

Several people have done the cooler. You can draw from the drain plug location with an oil pump, push it through a cooler, and most people locate the return directly above 3-4.

 

[mavericktsi83]

We're talking about a manual transmission here. To circulate a manual transmission'ss oil, you would need a sump, a pump, and a cooler. Pumping gear oil is no easy task for one thing, and a sump?

Several companies offer pumps and heat exchanger cores designed for this application. Few people run them on this platform with a manual trans. The "sump" is the trans itself...a bung is welded near the bottom of the case.

Not too much data out there regarding effectiveness and longevity. I saw a post by a member that reported gear oil temps exceeding 240F (w/o cooler) after 15-20 minutes, but had no data after installing his trans cooler setup. Another member, reported oil temps around 180F after installing a oil cooler setup, but it was radical so to speak, thread can be found here: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/transmission-cooling.434313/

For those of us who keep having issues with striping 3rd and/or 4th gear on the street... considering the OP is wanting the best option for a low-10 capable/more reliable trans option it would be helpful to hear experience from anyone running the Jacks Super HD with his bigger tooth 3-4 gear set installed. Include details such as weight, Hp/Tq, mileage, # of passes, etc. I'm wondering if these gears are holding up and are indeed stronger than the 1990-92 gears, respectively?

Maybe a trans cooler in conjunction with the bigger tooth gears Jacks offers would be the best option for those of us not going with the 8-10k PPG dogbox, which is not so street friendly anyway. Anyone running the Super HD chime in.

 

[92AWDHX40]

Im a long time customer of tre and ive got the shot peen and gear treatment and some other things it will hold up to my needs and I trust jon and that was that.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

Im a long time customer of tre and ive got the shot peen and gear treatment and some other things it will hold up to my needs and I trust jon and that was that.

What are your needs? Pretty vague..