http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=16&topic_id=119148&mode=fullHi,I made the pattern that was copied. I guess I can not get too upset because that is how some people get through life and then offer a religious blessing as well. Wow.It is hard to count how many...

GTM,Over on the Engineering Tips forum http://www.eng-tips.com there a few posts about how to determine flow rates for pumps, geroter and [email protected] is active and has a lot of very knowledgable do-it-yourself types on it. I would not be surprised if...

Well, ok. I am not sure if or why you think I am baiting you? On my homesite I give a hyperlink to GZ Motorsports. They have done part of what you are suggesting here and worked out many of the bugs, one of which is pump life in a daily driver.If you search the web you will also find many...

There are many road cars that run dry sumps stock. It is simply a more expensive, albeit superior, way to go.It's not irrelevent because even if you underdrive the pump the rotating assembly is still spinning at 17000rpm and that is where and why the vacuum is being drawn in the first...

I think the issue he is mentioning with seals is that standard engine seals are not designed to work with a vacuum on one side but it is certainly possible to design these. Some builders reverse standard seals.Nascar engines turn in the neighborhood of 9000rpm. Formula 1 engines turn in...

Baffles are good which is why we include them in our full setups. However, you need to remember the high rate at which an oil pump draws from the sump. In short transients the trapped oil from baffles will suffice. For extended high g sweepers the supply can be exhausted and returning oil can...

Some thoughts on the empirical failures. Under vacuum the splash oiling would actually increase, not decrease. Oil is constantly being ejected tangentially and radially from the bearings. Rather than being caught up in a windage cloud the oil is free to travel in a straight or deflected line...

The pickup for the DSM version of the 420a is a different length than the one in the Neon. They look very similar and until you compare them side by side you probably would think they are the same. Hope that helps.Edit: Oh! I see that carguyinok answered that.An side -- the Moroso pan...

There isn't anything wrong with using a metered vacuum pump on a crankcase. After all, this is what the scavenge pumps on a dry sump do.Make sure your metered air is filtered otherwise you're pulling dirty air right into your crankcase.If you are road racing with a vacuum pump engine...

Word of mouth from Paul St. Clair of Nismo to another Nissan enthusiast. The modifying of KA24 girdles is pretty commonplace. Might be one of those power secrets just emerging after several years time.The girdle is impacting power by doing odd things to the windage flow.

Like the last reply indicates, you can easily modify rods to throw some oil at the base of the piston. Here is a pic of some old high performance bike rods. See the relieved channel on the side of the rod? Many OEM rods have this more at an angle to hit the cylinder wall -- this pic is good...

I cannot believe how quickly time has gone by. It is still on the long to-do list but I have to fit this design work in between making the products.There is a good article by David Vizard in the August, 2006 Circle Track discussing gains by using reprofiled crank counterweights and coatings.

Very good idea to use one. Data from Nismo indicates having a girdle like that on the 7 bolt Mitsubishi engine in place can lower engine output by as much as 5% due to windage losses. Trays are an attempt to control this.

I think we will just make them like that stock now. Also, for the 6 and 7 bolt engines we have dual scraper setups now.I will look into making a windage tray for the engines -- I just finished a design for the Nissan KA24DE with the full girdle -- design elements might swap over directly to...

You guys just need to let me know that you are using studs and I can make a custom scraper with the relief holes for them, no extra charge. Kris took the time to help line everything up with the 1st gen when I only had a 2nd gen block to work with. I now have a 1st gen block and girdles as...

I wanted to pass along the recent experience of one of our other customers. He got one for the 6G72 and subsequently had an oil leak. He removed the scraper and tried sealing the pan again and still had a leak. Seven tries and a new pan later he still had a leak.One of the suggestions I...

The installation is typical of many oem parts, for example the Toyota 4AGZE has a windage tray that uses the full circumference of the flat oil pan rail and it and the pan are sealed to the block using RTV material. I do know that Permatex Ultra Grey passed Honda's 10 year/100,000 mile testing...

They are supplied with excess Teflon (all the "scraper" areas on the steel pattern have at least 3mm added to them). Prussian blue indicating grease is supplied to smear on the counterweights and rods and it will make marks on the Teflon where it is rubbing. The installer is instructed to trim...

That's why it is so great that Ed Peters did independant testing.His dyno room is so sensitive that it measures the effect of someone walking through the room. He held the ambient temp to plus or minus .5 degrees. He scrapped a day of dyno testing because it was raining and it was too...

I am sure you are aware of the millions of Teflon valve stem seal scrapers in service for at least the past 25 years. Same idea different application.If your oil filter allows such a small particle of Teflon through then it will pass a similarly sized particle of nice abrasive metal through...

Try using the Mopar rear differential RTV gasket maker. It is specifically formulated for use with synthetic lubricants.

Well, that is good news in one way -- you aren't drawing vacuum from an area of the engine that is being flooded with liquid oil.To be safe, I would remove the pump from the car and do further testing with it completely isolated. If you have a short in the circuit you do not want to start a...

Hey, finally made a setup for the 928 after talking with your Uncle way back. There are some dyno results on our home page for the 2.4 setup. The one for the DSM 420A is very similar in design. Maybe someday I will get to further mods for the Mitsubishi engines -- got a lot of projects backed...

It is likely that you are drawing oil through the line. Pumping fluids is a far greater strain than pumping gases and if this is a vacuum pump that was never intended to draw fluids that may be why the pump is overloading and then blowing the fuse.That's an educated guess.

Hi Defiant,Styrene (.060 for example) works much better than cardboard -- I've tried both. That's what I did for the first few hundred patterns but now I just measure and use a CAD program. It's fairly cheap to buy a sheet of styrene from a plastic supply house even if you only use a tiny...

Dodge has a scraper as stock equipment on the SRT4 -- that's a modern turbocharged engine so that's worth noting. Nissan has at least seven different scraper devices on the VG30 DETT -- they are distributed through the pan. Nissan also put scraper devices on the SR20 DET. Turbocharged...

If your Uncle's name is Louis then we have been corresponding re his mods to the sump in the 928. ;)Small world, huh?

I have used all the methods described in the thread. By far the fastest method for me is using a heavy duty wire CUP (not brush -- important distinction) in my pneumatic angle grinder.One disadvantage with this method, however, is that it flings a lot of dust, grit, etc. around. If you...

I honestly don't know why that builder was having troubles with rod bearings. Scrapers help the oil return more quickly to the sump. Remember that association is not causation. You should visit the Porsche forums and read about the common bearing failures on the 944 and 928 engines -- even...

I guess I get a distorted view since I look at cars in the wrecking yards -- a sea of 4G37 equipped cars. The ones that have the 4G63 base engine are usually snatched up quickly.The 2gnt also used the NA 2.4 (Mitsubishi 4G64) in the Spyder.

That's better yet. Chrysler uses a scraper as stock equipment on the SRT-4 (yes, that's a turbo). Ed Peters was a failure analysis engineer at Chrysler who worked on the windage losses in the predecessors to the 420A (S4RE or D4RE) and 2.4. He recommends scrapers.Also, the Mitsubishi 4G37...

Seemed like he mentioned them in his first post (?)...

Drag racing?Well, first off a lot of the people that initially lent me engines to measure were drag racers and they were all fully aware of scrapers.But here is a quote from Marvin Brautigam -- he is using one of our scrapers; he might be able to give you a time slip:"Kevin, this is...

I would like to take credit for inventing scrapers but I am about 40 years late. That you seem to think I thought them up is interesting. You have a few decades of successful use in racing and stock street cars that disagree with your opinion.KISS --- I am not sure if there is another mod...

"All of the pro-built dry sump engines (Ford 1.6 and 2 Liter) used in Formula & Sports Racers have extensive crank scrapers and windage trays for oil pickup. Since the rules severely limit how much power can be made through carburatiion, valves, and compression, the builders focus on eliminating...

"Several years ago, I used to be a machinist for a independant BMW shop. I built a lot of motors for the local SCCA "Lone Star Region". All had crank scrapers, and all had custom baffles in the oil pan. These were not your autox yahoos, but road course racing cars, TWS, Mid Ohio, Road...

An inexpensive way to do this would be to buy some directional screening from Moroso or Canton and form half a cylinder (or arc) that clears your bottom end but at the same time doesn't dip into the oil. That in itself will help a great deal. Make sure that you attach the screening securely...

We don't have dyno figures for the Mitsubishi 4G63/64 engines but the Honda B-series showed up to 2.5% hp increase depending on rpm. That is pretty significant considering that the B-series already come with a full windage tray.Church's dyno in L.A. ran tests on the D16 scraper (no...

SOHC 4G63 came in the 89-92 Galant. I pulled a motor myself to check it out and compare it to the G63B and 4G63t 1g of the same vintage.A retired Chrysler engineer who worked on the 2.2 Shelby Charger engines reported that Chrysler and Mobil did joint research back in the mid 1980s on...