When I downshit I pretty much always rev match, not to much to say other thatn practice and it sounds good and becomes a nice smoth operation. I don't really know if it has any advantages, but hey those Honda's put on a huge aluminum wing as if it will do something beneficial for there car.

No offense, but please tell me what your version of 'double clutching' is, because it's not beneficial/necessary/smooth unless you mean something else. For reference, I've always rev matched for the sake of my clutch, and I got pretty good at hitting the brake and accelerator pedal at the same time, although it's not that necessary.

No offence taken, what I mean by "double clutching" is putting the clutch in and shifting into neutral, reving, then putting the clutch in again and puting the car into gear, which makes the shift smoother....

from my understanding, this is used in cornering with a high horsepower car, if the car isnt rev-matched, the sudden jolt from the downshift would cause instability. At the same time, heel and toe is used as braking is neccesary as well.

Again, Im just trying to learn more about this, Im not saying I know alot about it or use it to race the touge. I read about the technique and thought it sounded cool..


If memory serves, there was a post on this in Off topic and a link to a bimmer site that had an awesome explanation, does anyone remember it?

This isn't a Bimmer site, but should show you guys what's what.

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

I heel-toe doubleclutch downshift whenever I need to brake and downshift into second or else my tranny grinds like a bee-otch.

No need to double-clutch unless you have synchro problems. Just add normal heel-and-toe blipping of the throttle during every downshift.

And right, you do it it with ANY car when (road) racing to avoid upsetting the car's balance. On the street, it'll save your clutch and make the entire driving experience much smoother.

It's also fun to get into the habit of always keeping both hands on the wheel, at 9 and 3.

Sadly, I have a heckuva time doing it with my Eclipse... the pedals/seat placement just ain't right for me somehow. My knee smacks into the dash unless I push the seat waaaaaaay back, but then the wheel is like a mile away from me.

One thing I love about hondas... they're PERFECT for heel and toe fun

, I was practicing tonight, but i kept not braking hard enough.....made for some scary moments.....guess I need more practice


keep the responses coming I think we can all learn something.....

Downshifting w/ a Fidanza wheel is fun. Maybe .2 seconds between shifts.

Rev Match. Your drivetrain will thank you.

I heel and heel flat foot it Thanks to big aftermarket pedals.

the heel/toe thing is pretty difficult with the positioning of the dsm pedals... so i've tried to develop a really quick foot
in response to the double-clutching the downshift... i double-clutch my downshifts most of the time, but especially when i use entering the lower gear to slow down...

It might be a rice thing to do but Momo(or something like) pedals really help on DSM's. THe stock gas pedal is way too small and in the wrong location.

Crazy E said:

, I was practicing tonight, but i kept not braking hard enough.....made for some scary moments.....guess I need more practice...

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, yea, it's tricky at first - at least it was for me. I'd either slam on the brakes when kicking the throttle, or get too timid and not brake soon enough. Be careful, and be sure you have lots of room and no one behind you.

What I did was first get into the habit of blipping the throttle to match revs on downshifts *without* using the brake. That is, when you're approaching a stop sign, lift off the gas waaaaay early and let the car slow down naturally. As it does, practice blipping the throttle to match revs for each downshift - don't bother with the braking yet. Just get a feel for it. It creates the habit of your foot wanting to blip for every shift.

Then start mixing in blipping under braking later.

It took me a week or two to get a reasonable feel for it. But I'm old and stupid - you young kids still have your coordination, . But once you do it for awhile, NOT doing it feels like you're abusing the car.

I rev match pretty much every donwshift, and double clutch on the nasty ones (like going into first while rolling).

I got into this habit when I was driving my 240sx and after I crashed it I caried on these habits to my DSM. It really is a fun way to drive and it is way better on the trans, brakes and clutch. First tip is to keep your stock pedals and get JUST a riced out fat ass gas pedal. For some reason the DSM gas pedal is farther back then the Brake pedal (Atleast in the 1g) and I found that it is much easier to Heel-toe with an aftermarket one. Secondly when you are heel-toeing it isnt really your toes doing the braking. Position the brake pedal under the part of your foot where all the toes meet up(Dunno the biological name for it haha) This will give you WAY more control over the brake and the throttle once you get used to having your foot contorted.

As for the 'double clutching' you dont have to let the clutch out then puch it back in and downshift. The fastest way to do it is Push the clutch in Start moving the shifter into a lower gear while you are rev matching, and as the revs are falling let the clutch out slowly for a smooth transition. If you let it out to soon the car will lurch like you are launching it since the revs will be higher. It takes practice but when you get it just right it is a work of art.

My speal is over, go in peace!

I too have always rev-matched while downshifting. It feels much better, and like Siberian said, if you rev-match all the time, and then don't - it feels like you are abusing the car. I have a dodge stealth that I have always rev-matched with and it has 137K miles on the original clutch (and entire drivetrain, for that matter). Revmatch.

Yeah, i Heel-toe every time i go into a turn, or every time i am coming to a stop. it is a fun technique to perfect. i got used to doing it in my ae86, when i was a dori dori master :laugh: , and i jsut carried over the "d-style" of driving over to my DSM. I love heel toeing, iut all feels so smooth when you can keep the toe on the brake, and swing your heel over to tap the gas for a second. it feels really neat, when you hit it perfect. I also used the "Drift Bible" with Keichi Tsyuchia, (sp), to learn alot about driving techniques. so if any of you havent seen this movie, YOU NEED TO! it is amazing, it will make you wish you had a RWD though. but either way, download it from KAzaa or something!!

As for the 'double clutching' you dont have to let the clutch out then puch it back in and downshift. The fastest way to do it is Push the clutch in Start moving the shifter into a lower gear while you are rev matching, and as the revs are falling let the clutch out slowly for a smooth transition. If you let it out to soon the car will lurch like you are launching it since the revs will be higher. It takes practice but when you get it just right it is a work of art.

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That's not double-clutching. That's just rev-matching and riding the clutch a little. I don't know if it'll fly on a dog-box tranny, but won't work on my DSM piece-of-crap-no-syncro's-in-second tranny.

Double clutching is only necessary for non-synchronizer equipped trannies or ones that are worn out completely.

-Groomz

i dont know, on downshifts i always blip the throttle before shifting...works fine for me

Groomz said:

Double clutching is only necessary for non-synchronizer equipped trannies or ones that are worn out completely.

-Groomz

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exactly

neuromonic said:

That's not double-clutching. That's just rev-matching and riding the clutch a little. I don't know if it'll fly on a dog-box tranny, but won't work on my DSM piece-of-crap-no-syncro's-in-second tranny.

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Thats why I put "s and its not riding the clutch, in the end it is better for your clutch and Tranny

Hey guys. Could one of you post a link to a site that discusses this stuff stating what it is and how to do it? Sorry about the newbie question, but my DSM is my first stick so I am still trying to learn all of the tricks and terms. Also before someone says search, I had planned to but since this post was already here discussing my questions, I figured I would ask here. Especially since most of you guys are experienced and use these techniques. Thanks a lot and I really appreciate the links.


-Sayajin

Sayajin said:

Hey guys. Could one of you post a link to a site that discusses this stuff stating what it is and how to do it?

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neuromonic posted a nice link to http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/howto/articles/45792/article.html

It's not as complicated to do as it is to explain.

Just again, be sure you have lots of room and no one behind you when you practice

I actually am looking at that link right now, I was more referring to the rev matching and double clutching?


-Sayajin

The best driving technique source is hands down the "Drift Bible". if at all possible download it, you will like it alot. but as far as double clutching goes, this is how i understand it:

Say you are in 4th gear, and are going to downshift into 3rd.

*Put the clutch in,
*Move it into neutral
*release the clutch in neutral
*give it a little rev
*put the clutch back in
*move the gear selector into 3rd gear
*and release the clutch

the overall feel of the downshift should be much smoother and your tranny likes it.

rev matching is very simple, this is my version and how i understand it.

say you are in 3rd gear going 35 mph @ 2700rpm, and you want to downshift into 2nd.
now when you down shift into 2nd you know that the revs will shoot up to 4000rpm. so what do you is,
*put in the clutch
*rev to 4000rpm
*put it in 2nd
*release the clutch.

doing this will lengthen the life of your clutch and transmission.
good luck
and if anyone feels my description of either of these is inaccurate, please feel free to correct me.