Poloturbo said:

No need to drop de TC, just remove the two plates on the sides, and pull the control arm a lot and it is not that difficult

Click to expand...

I did that since I didnt want to drop the T-case...

After 6 hours of lying on our backs (myself and blackgsx2g) to get the old one out and put the new one in I honestly think it would have made life so much easier. We did remove the plates and mess with the control arms but man it was SUCH A PITA

Honestly though, it is SO WORTH IT

####in NICE!

I want them NOW!!!

got mine today, ordered them from MachV last weekend. Can't wait to have them on, but dont wanna drop the Transfer case...will they be a largely noticable difference, even with a stock suspension?

Is it easy to drop the transfer case?

It's easy to drop the transfer case when your car is on the lift, but if you have it on a lift it's a lot easier to install the bar than doing that on your back on jack stands. I had Road//Race install mine since I knew the front would kick my ass in my driveway. Dropping the transfer case by myself and used anotehr jack to take up the weight.

I have no clearance issues with the bars and my ride height. I actually scrape my exhaust on weird angles and some speed bumps.

The bars helped with the body roll, which help keep the tires where you want them. Match them with better tires.

SAKONE said:

It's easy to drop the transfer case when your car is on the lift, but if you have it on a lift it's a lot easier to install the bar than doing that on your back on jack stands. I had Road//Race install mine since I knew the front would kick my ass in my driveway. Dropping the transfer case by myself and used anotehr jack to take up the weight.

I have no clearance issues with the bars and my ride height. I actually scrape my exhaust on weird angles and some speed bumps.

The bars helped with the body roll, which help keep the tires where you want them. Match them with better tires.

Click to expand...

I agree. If you are a DIY type of dsm'r (like me) I do 97% in my driveway/garage (unless I can borrow my friends lift, which never really happens) and honestly save yourself the headache and drop the t-case. The problem becomes the fact that the ground limits the angle of insertion for the bar, so there is only so many ways you can twist it.

Now, if you can get a lift, I would def agree that you wont need to drop the t-case, although it would be a joke to do it, especially if there was a tranny jack lying around

I never had clearence issues with the bars. They go exactly where the stock ones do and never interfered with anything for rattled. The only thing I scraped was my front bumper and exhaust muffler/tip.

The bars help tremendously with body roll, that's why they are sometimes also referred to as "anit-sway bars". For $300ish, you cannot go wrong. Anyone that has them on here I know would agree with me. Our cars (2g awd's) weigh on average (from my experiences) around 3400lbs depending on mods/full tank/ and a number of other factors. Anything you can do to prevent that weight from obtaining too much momentum/potential energy when manuevering is significant becuase it will directly affect other factors (such as under/over steer, response, traction, etc.)

I would love to hear what you think zilo900 with them on your stock suspension, I wish I would have gotten to put them on first and then the illuminas/prokits so that I could have really "seen" the improvements

Ran into a problem yesterday, I started with the front bar because I wanted to get the hard part done with. On the endlink on the passenger side, I can not get the nut off of the bolt. I used tons of liquid wrench oil and when I finally got it to turn....it stripped the head of the bolt So now all i get is the nut and bolt to spin together, even when I tried grabbin it with goosenecks and vice grips, and right now my sawzall it lookin tempting... any help/ideas?

Let us know the difference with the stock suspension. I have to drive a nastly country driveway sometimes, so aftermarket suspension is out of the question for now until I get another daily driver. But I do want to improve the handling.

Definitely a must have. My old susp was baked...replaced the whole shebang...rides smoother, yet firmer. Less bangs, no sway left.

Pro Kit / Illuminas some strut tower bars and the front/rear RM bars put the car on rails. Its all up to your tires after that!

Ok, I haven't gotten the rear bar in yet cause of the damn endlinks. I stripped on in the rear last week and just havent touched it since, they are $62 a piece from mitsu so I was just a little mad. Drivin is still very improved with just the front bar in though, but with noticable oversteer. Anyways I wrote up a tech article on installing the front bar in an awd when you don't have access to a lift. I thought it would be good to show people that its easier than you think. I did not drop the transfer case, and only had a jack and 2 jackstands. here is the article, http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233915 rep points please if helpful.

nice write up.

Dare i say insperational?

zilo900 said:

One both endlinks are disconnected, you can unbolt the bracket that hold the bar to the body of the car. (2 brackets, 2 bolts each) use a 14mm on them and remove the bracket and the stock rubber bushing.

Click to expand...

shouldn't it be once, not one? just an fyi

zilo900 said:

Drivin is still very improved with just the front bar in though, but with noticable oversteer.

Click to expand...

Really, it oversteers? Generally a stiffer front arb causes understeer, and a stiff REAR causes oversteer.

Until you reach a certain level of total roll resistance, almost anything you do to reduce bodyroll will increase front grip on a 2G, even a thicker front sway bar. This seems to be true because the front bump-camber curves aren't steep enough (even if they are better than those on a 1G). The better front grip moves you towards oversteer, although what many people seem to call oversteer is really an understeering car that snap-spins when you do something silly, which summarizes a majority of 2G I've ever driven. It takes a lot to make a 2G really and truly loose.

- Jtoby

steel_3d said:

Really, it oversteers? Generally a stiffer front arb causes understeer, and a stiff REAR causes oversteer.

Click to expand...

Yes, I meant UNDERsteer, I did the writeup at around 1 am after I did the install that day. I'm slowly seein from the typos that maybe I should write these at a normal hour

zilo900 said:

Yes, I meant UNDERsteer, I did the writeup at around 1 am after I did the install that day. I'm slowly seein from the typos that maybe I should write these at a normal hour

Click to expand...

Dude, AWESOME WRITEUP!!!!

The way you describe getting it out is how we did it, but we didnt have a large enough jack to get the car high enough so it was a HUGE PITA!!! I too removed both lower plates and the lower arm, those have to come off.

The trick is as you stated getting it jacked up enough.

I also wanted to say that you may want to edit your tech article. When you removed the jack stand and used the jack to hold the car up, the jack stand should be relocated to the other side of the jack as a secondary hold point in case the jack fails. I know you really arent under the car when removing the bar, but a 3300lb+ car falling towards you would not be good. My grandpa's brother was crushed to death under a car when the jack failed and he wasnt using a jackstand. Ever since my he told me that story I've always used one, it just isnt worth the fatal or near-fatal risk.

yeah, all I really did was move the jackstand, pull the bar and in 15 seconds put the jackstand back under, I guess I just bank that people will use common sense hopefully they would already understand but I will add it just in case

Zilo, great job. I would definitely stress jack stand safety, as mentioned previously. It only takes a moment to relocate the jack stand somewhere safe; never rely on only the jack for support.

--Dan
Mach V
MachV.com

zilo900 said:

Ran into a problem yesterday, I started with the front bar because I wanted to get the hard part done with. On the endlink on the passenger side, I can not get the nut off of the bolt. I used tons of liquid wrench oil and when I finally got it to turn....it stripped the head of the bolt So now all i get is the nut and bolt to spin together, even when I tried grabbin it with goosenecks and vice grips, and right now my sawzall it lookin tempting... any help/ideas?

Click to expand...

1)Cut endlinks off with cutting wheel/sazall/ whatever you cut with.

2) Buy new OEM endlinks from Mitsu

3) Install new endlinks and swaybar

4) Get off DSMTuners and drive car

I have a question...(1g)

I remember when only the rear RM swaybar was available, because the front one wasn't as crucial.

when installin a front swaybar, doesn't that cancel out the effect of the rear bar? By that I mean the purpose of the rear bar is to induce oversteer, and minimize body roll. Installing a front bar would reduce roll but also induce understeer, no?

Thanks

Depends on the springrates.

At first, what matters is adding total roll stiffness, no matter how it is done. In other words, when starting from stock, any increase in bar or springs will increase grip, including the front. Once you reach a certain point, you can start tuning the handling with front vs rear bars, but you have to be close for this to be worthwhile.

Going further, some common-sense mods actually make the car a bit more difficult to drive. If you take a stock 2G, for example, and slap on a huge rear bar, the car will handle a bit better far below the limit, but now will snap-spin at corner entry at the limit. It's a lot like a band-aid which keeps dirt out of the wound (below the limit), but slows the healing process by restricting air-flow (near the limit).

- Jtoby

I like the analogy

So basically with a FWD, with coilovers, adj. shocks, strut bars; adding the RM sways are going to yet still continue to make the car feel like its on rails?


I'm very interested in very spirited mountain driving and just going fast around turns period. Would these continue to help me stick and get in and out of the corners easier?

Thanks,
Justin

I finally got around to installing my 1g kit. This is just some information that others might find helpful. I found the front bushings easy to replace using the right tools.

I did one bushing at a time. (1) I removed the stock bracket and bushing. (2) I then greased up the new bushing and put in the same location as the stock bushing. (3) Put bracket tab into the mounting slot. don't try to put it on the bushing/swaybar yet. (4) Using a floor jack, apply pressure to the wheel/suspension assy. by jacking the wheel up. This will bring the sway bar to the height you need. (5) Using a C-clamp on the swaybar and vehicle frame, apply pressure to the swaybar. This will pull the swaybar close to the frame. I used one of the old bushings on the swaybar side to prevent it from slipping off of the bar under pressure. (6) Now the bar will be in the right location for mounting. Slip the bracket over the bushing/swaybar and put the bracket bolt in. Tighten it down before moving to the next side.

I tried it the way everyone else does by using a prybar, but that was too frustrating, so I said "screw it, there has to be an easier way". The rear was much more difficult compared to the front if you do it this way.

I only have the rear installed and I love the way she handles. Does the front one make that much of an additional difference? It looks like a pain to install. Still got it if anyones interested in it. PM me!