DSM90AWD said:

Those 2.4s spool big turbos up nicely

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EXACTLY!!!!!!!

Like i said strokers. Hey man did you know gulable's not in the dictionary

Slippi84 said:

50whp when you make 500whp is the diffrence between going 10.8 and going 10.6(this is general the times may be slightly diffrent but the difrence between the two is about the same at that hp level.) in my book that's nothing.

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50whp is everything on big power cars. Going from 200 to 250HP is easy, going from 500 to 550 is not.

DSM90AWD said:

Those 2.4s spool big turbos up nicely What compression are you running?

edit:

So are you running this on a your '92 w/ 4G63 or the 95 NT w/2.4L Avenger motor

Regardless, the compressor cover you have on page 1 of this thread is not appropriate for the quick-spooling SBR/PTE exhaust housings as it will surge.

DSMotorsport mentions this fact on their site from their own experience and will only sell with the Ported T04S cover. FP will also only sell this with the Garrett T04 cover with anti-surge ports. I know oldman had to buy the "S" cover after he'd bought his GT-12 for the very same reason.

So be careful and look for tell tale indications of surging (boost rapidlyfluctuating up/down on spool / pitch change in turbo..etc)

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no i have a 2.0 wiesco 9.1.. 40 over ..when i do a compression test it read 200 on all 4 ..this is in my 92 awd laser.....i been using the E cover for awhile now ..had it on my scm61 and no compresser surge..even on this sbr gt35r bolt on there's no surge .. my friend is running an Innovative Turbo 75 pounds per min wheel still with a E cover ..and innovative turbo and victory peformance recommended that set up for him !!!! i attached a pic of his turbo..my friend been doin research for a crazy long time and has been into dsm for years .. so he knows whats hes doin

To me it seams like the E cover we be a restriction too for a turbo of that size, the E cover is a .60 ar with 3 inch inlet and 2 inch outlet. I think the S cover is a much better choice because it will be alot less restrictive since the S cover is a .70 ar with 4 inch inlet and 2.5 inch outlet. My friend and I had a big argument over it cause he was planning on getting the vicotry performance 600 turbo and its got the E cover and we even talked to the guy at Innovative and he said the reason they run the E cover is it brings cooler charge temps.... He said it wouldnt effect spool or anything since Scott at Victory said it would. It just seams stupid to slap on a cover that seams like it wouldnt flow enough air. My friend went with the S cover anyway.

Coup D E'Tat said:

50whp is everything on big power cars. Going from 200 to 250HP is easy, going from 500 to 550 is not.

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I never said it was easy but the diffrence between a 200 and 250whp car is nigfht and day the diffrence between a 500 and 550whp car is def not. To prove my point take your car out and run 4-5 less psi and tell me if it feels night and day diffrent and that's your own car.

Slippi84 said:

I never said it was easy but the diffrence between a 200 and 250whp car is nigfht and day the diffrence between a 500 and 550whp car is def not. To prove my point take your car out and run 4-5 less psi and tell me if it feels night and day diffrent and that's your own car.

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Go ask Brent Rau how much he'd pay for 50whp. 50whp means everything when you're making real power.

Edit : For clarification, since I know Slippi will throw this in, I am talking real world power. Not Brent Rau power. I just used him as an example.

Slippi84 said:

This is simply the turbo only the other stuff adds up to make the t3 slightlu more expensive.

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EXACTLY. THIS IS WHY THERE ARE BOLT-ON HOUSINGS.

People will $50 more for a turbo that bolts up to their stock parts.

The whole reason that people make these housings is because the dsm community is willing to sacrifice some power and spend a little bit more to avoid having to buy a $500 manifold and $300 wastegate, along with a custom downpipe to reroute wastegated gas back into the exhaust.

The bolt-on housings were never made with performance in mind. They were made to cater to the cheapness of DSMers.

If they are better, why does NO other group run that style housing?

Subaru guys stick with IHI turbos, and when they go to something besides it, they swap to a full T3/T4 setup with very few exceptions.(FP Green and FP Red)

Supra guys go T3/T4 or T4.

MR2 guys go T3/T4.

Honda guys go T3/T4.

Mazda guys go T3/T4.

Nissan uses T3 stock.

SRT4 guys use...*gasp*... T3/T4.

Are you noticing a trend here? The only crowd that doesn't swap to full T3 is the one who is notoriously cheap when it comes to modding their cars.

Or are none of those cars ever streetable?

DSM90AWD said:

On larger GT turbos I've seen direct turbine housing compares of PTE to FP (FP produced more WHP) and on conventional BEP to T3 (T3 showed ~40WHP). I've never seen a direct compare of SBR's housing to anything so cannot comment other than to say it likely flows less than a .63 A/R T3.

Diamond Star Motorsport notes on their site a back-to-back comparison of the GT-35 in PTE vs T3 turbine housings (they offer both), so may want to give them a call if interested in this specific turbo.

Does this help?

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I was thinking more along the lines of back to back dyno comparisons to show the non beleivers that the T3 housings are far superior to the bolt on housings in terms of the power band and top end performance, over the bolt on housings. I've seen dyno results but I can't repost them.

Coup D E'Tat said:

Go ask Brent Rau how much he'd pay for 50whp. 50whp means everything when you're making real power.

Edit : For clarification, since I know Slippi will throw this in, I am talking real world power. Not Brent Rau power. I just used him as an example.

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Your missing the point man. I would love 50whp just as much as the next guy but it's not gonna me you run night and day diffrent when your makin 500whp. Be honest do you have any less respect for a guy running 10.8 ad a guy running 10.5 and thats an optimistic idea of how much faster 50whp will make you go. If you don't believe me find a tuners member that is real big for makin 14b fast times I think his name is like blizzard or something like that he has a white talon or something and runs crazy times for a 14b. Well anyway he has a hp estimater on his site where you put in the weight of the car and the 1/4 time and it tells you how much hp your makin estimated. Pic 3200 pounds as that's what our cars weigh stock and put in 10.5 and 10.8 I bet the diffrence is either 50whp or more. If you don't exactly what that proves then i'm sorry this is a lost cause even trying to explain it to you.

Slippi84 said:

Your missing the point man. I would love 50whp just as much as the next guy but it's not gonna me you run night and day diffrent when your makin 500whp. Be honest do you have any less respect for a guy running 10.8 ad a guy running 10.5 and thats an optimistic idea of how much faster 50whp will make you go. If you don't believe me find a tuners member that is real big for makin 14b fast times I think his name is like blizzard or something like that he has a white talon or something and runs crazy times for a 14b. Well anyway he has a hp estimater on his site where you put in the weight of the car and the 1/4 time and it tells you how much hp your makin estimated. Pic 3200 pounds as that's what our cars weigh stock and put in 10.5 and 10.8 I bet the diffrence is either 50whp or more. If you don't exactly what that proves then i'm sorry this is a lost cause even trying to explain it to you.

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At those times, there is a large difference between a 10.5 and a 10.8. But drag racing is only one thing to consider. A wider powerband will be infinitely better in any kind of racing; it'll make an even bigger difference in autocross or road racing.

And anyway, according to the calculator I have, 500whp @ 3200lbs would put you at about a 10.8. 550whp @ 3200lbs would put you at about a 10.4.

Pretty big gain for something as simple as an exhaust housing.

suicidal2af said:

At those times, there is a large difference between a 10.5 and a 10.8. But drag racing is only one thing to consider. A wider powerband will be infinitely better in any kind of racing; it'll make an even bigger difference in autocross or road racing.

And anyway, according to the calculator I have, 500whp @ 3200lbs would put you at about a 10.8. 550whp @ 3200lbs would put you at about a 10.4.

Pretty big gain for something as simple as an exhaust housing.

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To you it's a big diffrecne to me it's not worth the extra lag and money to shell out so like I said a million times this is my opinion and you guys seem to think that running a t3 is cool for a dd on a turbo this big I don't because we have already established you will spool slower and have to dish out alot more money to run it rpoperly. So like I said originaly the bolt on hosuing is better for a gt35r dd in my opinion. That's all.

All I have to say about this is that my GT12 will be getting either a full Garrett or a FP3055 conversion real soon. Keith from turbotrix/BM tranny told me that they did a back to back run on the GT12 and went from 350awhp to 420awhp by just swapping the turbine housing, that is a huge difference. IMO if you are serious about making serous power, like 500whp, bolt on housings are not the way to go, especially with the SBR bolt on housing. In any case, please let us know when you finally get 500 out of the GT14.

I just got done reading this thread from start to finish; Ill summerize:

on topic -> arguing -> bench racing -> arguing -> back on topic?

Anyways, I started reading this thread because Im in the market for a different turbo. A 50 trim is just not as efficient on a 2.4 as it is on a 2.0. Ive already decided that I wont be buying another "hybrid" turbo because Ive been disappointed with the ones Ive owned.

Can we agree that a smaller housing yields faster spool and a larger housing yields greater power potential?


EDIT: slippi, is your car even running?

Turbocharged said:

I just got done reading this thread from start to finish; Ill summerize:

on topic -> arguing -> bench racing -> arguing -> back on topic?

Anyways, I started reading this thread because Im in the market for a different turbo. A 50 trim is just not as efficient on a 2.4 as it is on a 2.0. Ive already decided that I wont be buying another "hybrid" turbo because Ive been disappointed with the ones Ive owned.

Can we agree that a smaller housing yields faster spool and a larger housing yields greater power potential?


EDIT: slippi, is your car even running?

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If it was the pics in my profile wouldn't be just engine pics

I said the same thing you just did about 4 days ago but people keep trying to say that the bolt on housing has no benefits other than ease of install but I have given up on the non believers. When it is running which won't be long like I said i'll make a long write up and have dyno sheets as it will be dyno tuned and both video's of the dyno run and my track run. Untill then we'll just leave it at we agree to disagree.


Hye old man you can come down to atco and see the car for yourself when it's running then you can come back and tell people yourself what you think that way it's just not coming from me.

bolt on gt14 will do 500h/p or over i did 501 on a scm61 a few months ago and back it up at the track with a 11.1 @ 127 on only 24 psi

Initial DSM said:

bolt on gt14 will do 500h/p or over i did 501 on a scm61 a few months ago and back it up at the track with a 11.1 @ 127 on only 24 psi

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Proof? Mod list?

Initial DSM said:

bolt on gt14 will do 500h/p or over i did 501 on a scm61 a few months ago and back it up at the track with a 11.1 @ 127 on only 24 psi

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11.1 is the quickest SCM61 time on DSMTimes. Why not post up your timeslip

Initial DSM said:

bolt on gt14 will do 500h/p or over i did 501 on a scm61 a few months ago and back it up at the track with a 11.1 @ 127 on only 24 psi

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If you would have said something like you did it with the t3 housing no one would be questioning your time or power

I am curious what your setup was though cause that's right where I want to be with my setup.

I'd say this is most likely the fastest scm61 and is said to be only at 30psi must be that Canadian air

here's the link i posted when i went 11.1 i posted it in the dsmlink forumscause dsmlink helped me get the 11.1 before that i was only at 11.5



http://www.dsmlink.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7746&highlight=scm61


i copied and pasted what i wrote on the dsmlink forum cause i think u need to sign up to view there forum's



installed dsmlink in my 1st gen went 11.1@127 ..with only 24 psi..i was on 50/50 93 pump c-16 mix ..i did alittle tunning and loging before i ran , i set the boost to 29 psi and i set the check engine light to come on at 4 degree of pull back timming ..it keep pulling it back i wonder why so i was only running 24-25 psi ..during a few runs at 24-25 psi the check engine light comes on again ..i really was shooting for the 10's ..welll i'm happy it was my first time out with the dsmlink installed ..i know if i was able to run more boost i would of broke in the 10's with no problem ..here's a video of my run the jackasses at e-town would'nt show my time on the broad cause i didnt have a cage and they booted me off the track after words

http://www.titsup.mike1023.com/vide.../laser_11_1.wmv

there's a run the showed my time 11.40

http://www.titsup.mike1023.com/vide.../laser_11_4.wmv

Thanks for the info.

However, where's the dyno chart? What does the car weigh?

My car weighs about 3000 pounds with me in it..will get the dyno chart on line soon

Initial DSM said:

My car weighs about 3000 pounds with me in it..will get the dyno chart on line soon

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slippi84 I have a question for you since you seem to have blinders on when it comes to the mitsu housing. Early in this thread you said that 400rpm of spool to you was a huge deal! Then later on you say that 50whp isnt that big of a deal, then later you state that almost a half second off the 1/4th isnt a big deal to you. So what is the point of the car you are building is it a drag car or a street car? Also since I havent posted in this thread in a while let me get this out of the way for you. No I dont think that the mitsu turbo's are junk they are good for what they are how ever the peaky power band is no where near what the bigger garret turbo will give you. Oh and another thing earlyer in this thread you stated I have no experince with bigger turbo's you should stick to posting what you know cause you dont know me at all and yes I do have experince with big turbo's. I dont have a mod list on my profile cause I just tore my car apart to set it up for a bigger set up there for I dont have a mod list cause I dont have it together!!

black91awdturbo said:

slippi84 I have a question for you since you seem to have blinders on when it comes to the mitsu housing. Early in this thread you said that 400rpm of spool to you was a huge deal! Then later on you say that 50whp isnt that big of a deal, then later you state that almost a half second off the 1/4th isnt a big deal to you. So what is the point of the car you are building is it a drag car or a street car? Also since I havent posted in this thread in a while let me get this out of the way for you. No I dont think that the mitsu turbo's are junk they are good for what they are how ever the peaky power band is no where near what the bigger garret turbo will give you. Oh and another thing earlyer in this thread you stated I have no experince with bigger turbo's you should stick to posting what you know cause you dont know me at all and yes I do have experince with big turbo's. I dont have a mod list on my profile cause I just tore my car apart to set it up for a bigger set up there for I dont have a mod list cause I dont have it together!!

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My point for building my car is to go fast without wanting to kill myself the 90% of the time when I'm not racing it. That's why the cal a car a Daily driver you drive it everyday. I will race maybe one to two nights a week. I will drive my cafr everyday. Having a car that spools 400rpms that is a benefit you will see during that 90% of the time your not racing. Having a car that makes 50whp more hp and goes .3-.4 seconds faster in the 1/4 mile is a great benefit but you will only notice that during the 10% of the time your racing. So with that said a benefit that I will gain from 90% of the time is better to me than a benefit I will benefit from 10% of the time. On top of that if you can't see the logic and reasoning why I believe bolt on housings are better for dd cars think about this if you have a car that runs low 11's even on the street how many cars do you really think are keeping up with you anyway. Now I don't live in an area where it's like it is on those 1320 videos. I don't have 1000hp trucks and boostangs and random shit like that runninga round on the streets where I live. a low 11 sec car will run all comers on 98% of the nights out where I go. So maybe if you live in an area where that's not fast enough by all means go for the t3 housing but if you calculate what I'm saying now into everything else I have said which you seem to know so well it makes more sense for someone like me to save money buy having something that bolts on and have faster spool on my dd.


By the way the guy that just posted proved that the bolts on aren't as peaky as everyone thinks and that you don't have to run crazy high boost to make power either. He went 11.1 with 24 psi. I don't think that is too shabby at all.