Good cheap alternative to FP Green?

PRESSURIZED · Apr 12, 2006

Whats a cheap alternative to the FP Green Turbo? I have a b16g right now flowing around 35lbs +/- /min However Im in SOcal and would like more of a pump gas friendly turbo and more power (obviously) I dont have much access to race gas and want to run 91 pump and tune it then leave it on 91. But I want to make the same power as I am now running 20=22psi on a b16g.

Any recommendation...im also FWD

Ryan95tsiAWD · Apr 12, 2006

PRESSURIZED said:
Whats a cheap alternative to the FP Green Turbo? I have a b16g right now flowing around 35lbs +/- /min However Im in SOcal and would like more of a pump gas friendly turbo and more power (obviously) I dont have much access to race gas and want to run 91 pump and tune it then leave it on 91. But I want to make the same power as I am now running 20=22psi on a b16g.

Any recommendation...im also FWD

b16g 35lbs @ 22psi on 91octane? Wow...thats good! What is your timing/knock like?

If you are looking for a cheaper turbo that produced the same air flow of a green without the price, you would have to look at turbochargers.com or slowboy (or similar site). What you sacrafice in cost can very well bite you in the arse when it comes to performance. You also need to factor in the way you are going to "adapt" to the turbo you want to use. You are going to pay more for a turbo that is designed to use a stock manifold but you are not going to have to purchase a new manifold (ex: T3 style) to mate to the turbo. You would also need to included the cost of a new o2 housing and exhaust repositioning.

Rick99gsx · Apr 12, 2006

Id say go for an AGP RS-49 if you want something similar to a green. Personally I'd look for something bigger like maybe a 60-1 and since I feel your 91 octane pain go for alcohol/water injection. For reference my 60-1 at 19 pounds of boost flows about 38lbs +/- she'll flow way more at the 25psi mark.

dsm-onster · Apr 12, 2006

Yes, water injection makes everything and anything more pump gas friendly... I have a tech article that gives more info. . . Suppressing Knock with Water Injection. I'm definately not tooting my own horn. But, I'd rather give you everything I can than just bits and pieces that might confuse.

RS49 and RS49T has been proven to deliver similar results. AGP is a good company to work with. SBR has 50-trims. An FP green is a 50-trim compressor w/ a td06h MHI hotside. A .63 a/r tubine housing and t31 (T3 stage 3) wheel is very similar. So most t3(stage3)/t4 50-trims will provide similar results.

90AWDTalon · Apr 12, 2006

PRESSURIZED said:
Whats a cheap alternative to the FP Green Turbo?

Holset HX35. The wheels on the holset are almost the same size as the wheels on the fp green.

HX 35 comp wheel.
2.07/3.00
FP green comp wheel (50 trim).
2.13/3.00

HX 35 turbine
2.36/2.75
FP green turbine (tdo6H).
2.315/2.650

You get a 4" inlet and a 2.5" outlet with the holset. I've been running this turbo for couple of weeks know. Spools extreamly fast, 25+psi at 3800-3200 depending on what gear you are in. I've run as much as 27psi on 92 octane with no hint of knock. I went to the 1/8 mile drags last friday ran 7.2 with a bad launch and non ideal shift points. I was running 29psi on half a tank of 92 octane and 1 bottle of octane booster. Out of 8 runs I logged a single count of knock 4 or 5 times. I bought mine used on ebay for $125 + a bullseye turbine housing. Great turbo.

PRESSURIZED · Apr 13, 2006

90AWDTalon said:
Holset HX35. The wheels on the holset are almost the same size as the wheels on the fp green.

HX 35 comp wheel.
2.07/3.00
FP green comp wheel (50 trim).
2.13/3.00

HX 35 turbine
2.36/2.75
FP green turbine (tdo6H).
2.315/2.650

You get a 4" inlet and a 2.5" outlet with the holset. I've been running this turbo for couple of weeks know. Spools extreamly fast, 25+psi at 3800-3200 depending on what gear you are in. I've run as much as 27psi on 92 octane with no hint of knock. I went to the 1/8 mile drags last friday ran 7.2 with a bad launch and non ideal shift points. I was running 29psi on half a tank of 92 octane and 1 bottle of octane booster. Out of 8 runs I logged a single count of knock 4 or 5 times. I bought mine used on ebay for $125 + a bullseye turbine housing. Great turbo.

$125? What? Damn thats cheap...what all would I need to bolt that turbo on my car which currently has a b16g? Im guessing a t3/t4 manifold...and special oil lines? What oil lines are you using...im guessing this is oil cooled only right?

90AWDTalon · Apr 19, 2006

PRESSURIZED said:
$125? What? Damn thats cheap...

Actually it ended up being even cheeper than that, I just sold the hx35 turbine housing on ebay for $75.

PRESSURIZED said:
what all would I need to bolt that turbo on my car which currently has a b16g? Im guessing a t3/t4 manifold...and special oil lines? What oil lines are you using...im guessing this is oil cooled only right?

You need the bullseye power turbine housing. New oil lines, and block off the water lines. Look for the 2 big holset threads, you'll find all the info you need there.

Maglin · Apr 19, 2006

It could take you a while to find a HX35 for that price. Most people want 200-300 for theirs. It is a pretty pump gas friendly turbo. Loud as hell with a 4" intake. I found it to small myself and just recently got a HX52. Now that is a big turbo. I'm going to be parting ways with my HX35 w/mitsu TH here in the next month or so once I can get the scratch to fit the 52 on. I would say best bet would be to get the SCM61. They are like $600ish I believe. You won't have to worry about getting a new actuator like you would for the holset. I found the Holsets 22 lbs actuator just to tight and a big PITA to work with. I ended up retro fitting a 10 lbs actuator from a RX7 on mine. They have tons of spring pressure and a very big diaphram to open it up.

dsm-onster · Apr 20, 2006

I know very little about the Holsets. . . Would the bullseye turbine housing and holset turbine wheel that is used on the HX35 comparable to the popular T3 stage 3 turbine and .63 a/r housing that most get w/ the 50-trim?

Maglin · Apr 20, 2006

dsm-onster said:
I know very little about the Holsets. . . Would the bullseye turbine housing and holset turbine wheel that is used on the HX35 comparable to the popular T3 stage 3 turbine and .63 a/r housing that most get w/ the 50-trim?

The bullseye TH is more like .55 as the turbine wheel is a pretty decent size. Spools way fast like I see 30 PSI at 3800 which is a little to soon for my application. At 2500 I see like 10 PSI ish. I do know that the Holset has a more heavy duty thrust bearing and a iconial (sp) turbine wheel. Their qualiity is great and they can take a good amount of abuse ie.. compressor stall. My BOV is to small and I get compressor stall above 23 PSI when I let off. I hate it but I didn't have the cash to get a Tial BOV at the time. But given how much I've abused mine over the last 9 months it's still like the day i recieved it used. No shaft play and both the compressor and turbine wheels are in perfect shape. One thing to be carefull of with any turbo is oil pressure. I have a 4 AN line for a turbo feed and even with my oil mods I was still seeing 50+ PSI at the turbo which eventually lead to me blowing the oil seal on it. I'm going to install a oil pressure regulator to kept it at 40 PSI. Holset says not to go over 44 PSI of oil pressure and I know 40 is pretty optimum. Read the holset threads and see if it might be something for you. I was one of the first few that put one on. Others had more issues than myself. Everyone was very satisfied with them as far as power output goes. And the sweetes thing is when you pop your hood you have a HUGH turbo their for people to gock at. I get lots of comments for anyone that looks at it. And the HX52 makes it look small.

90AWDTalon · Apr 20, 2006

Maglin said:
My BOV is to small and I get compressor stall above 23 PSI when I let off. I hate it but I didn't have the cash to get a Tial BOV at the time.

All I have is a crushed stock BOV, the only time I've ever encountered surge was when I went full throttle in 5th gear at 3000rpm's and hit 25psi by 3200rpm's.

Maglin said:
One thing to be carefull of with any turbo is oil pressure. I have a 4 AN line for a turbo feed and even with my oil mods I was still seeing 50+ PSI at the turbo which eventually lead to me blowing the oil seal on it. I'm going to install a oil pressure regulator to kept it at 40 PSI.

I had an issue with this and installed a restrictor I bought from one of the vendors that post in the holset thread, it fixed the problem.

dsm-onster · Apr 20, 2006

Maglin said:
The bullseye TH is more like .55 as the turbine wheel is a pretty decent size. Spools way fast like I see 30 PSI at 3800 which is a little to soon for my application. At 2500 I see like 10 PSI ish. I do know that the Holset has a more heavy duty thrust bearing and a iconial (sp) turbine wheel. Their qualiity is great and they can take a good amount of abuse ie.. compressor stall. My BOV is to small and I get compressor stall above 23 PSI when I let off. I hate it but I didn't have the cash to get a Tial BOV at the time. But given how much I've abused mine over the last 9 months it's still like the day i recieved it used. No shaft play and both the compressor and turbine wheels are in perfect shape. One thing to be carefull of with any turbo is oil pressure. I have a 4 AN line for a turbo feed and even with my oil mods I was still seeing 50+ PSI at the turbo which eventually lead to me blowing the oil seal on it. I'm going to install a oil pressure regulator to kept it at 40 PSI. Holset says not to go over 44 PSI of oil pressure and I know 40 is pretty optimum. Read the holset threads and see if it might be something for you. I was one of the first few that put one on. Others had more issues than myself. Everyone was very satisfied with them as far as power output goes. And the sweetes thing is when you pop your hood you have a HUGH turbo their for people to gock at. I get lots of comments for anyone that looks at it. And the HX52 makes it look small.

Thank you. I am looking for an upgrade to my 601 w/ a bullseye/t3(stage 3) hot side. I know That I can get significant gains going to a straight t31 (.63 a/r) turbine housing and tubular mainfold. BUT, the Holsets are so affordable. . . I'm interested in these as a complete upgrade in the near future. But, i don't want to get one of these only to have the turbine housing to be a total restriction. I don't mind a 4200 rpm spool. Does the HX40 have a larger hot side or cold side (I am unfamiliar w/ the holset nomenclature)?

Maglin · Apr 20, 2006

90AWDTalon said:
I had an issue with this and installed a restrictor I bought from one of the vendors that post in the holset thread, it fixed the problem.

I've debated using a restrictor but have decided to just build a oil pressure regulator. That way I can put an oil pressure gauge on it and definitly know that my turbo is getting the oil that it should. I'll just use the same type of oil sending unit that I use for my engine oil pressure and use the same gauge and just install a switch to switch between the 2. I don't want more gauges in my car than need be.

I'm interested in these as a complete upgrade in the near future. But, i don't want to get one of these only to have the turbine housing to be a total restriction. I don't mind a 4200 rpm spool. Does the HX40 have a larger hot side or cold side (I am unfamiliar w/ the holset nomenclature)?

What are your goals. The Bullseye TH is good for most people. Past 6500 RPM it's to much of a restriction for me. I wish I could put a backpressure gauge in my manifold and know for sure. Only thing I know is that it seems to really fall on it's face. It could be my cams though. I do know that I'm looking to be turning 10K RPMS or better and by 7500 the current TH will just be a big restriction.

If you have a T3 Manifold you can just use the Holset TH that comes with the turbo. You will need to do some work on your exhaust but I'm sure you and your exhaust shop or fabricator can come up with a solution. The HX40 I believe is a Full T4 TH and yes is much bigger. I wanted to try the HX35 with the 12cm^ holset TH, but I threw mine away when I moved. Looked at the posters aboves TH on ebay as once it went past $50 I was like no way. Funny as i was watching it for a few days. LoL. Just do some reading. The Holsets have me hooked. Why I have a HX52 now. Now I just need another 6K for machine work and more engine goodies to be able to run it.

dsm-onster · Apr 20, 2006

Maglin said:
What are your goals. The Bullseye TH is good for most people. Past 6500 RPM it's to much of a restriction for me. I wish I could put a backpressure gauge in my manifold and know for sure. Only thing I know is that it seems to really fall on it's face. It could be my cams though. I do know that I'm looking to be turning 10K RPMS or better and by 7500 the current TH will just be a big restriction.

If you have a T3 Manifold you can just use the Holset TH that comes with the turbo. You will need to do some work on your exhaust but I'm sure you and your exhaust shop or fabricator can come up with a solution. The HX40 I believe is a Full T4 TH and yes is much bigger. I wanted to try the HX35 with the 12cm^ holset TH, but I threw mine away when I moved. Looked at the posters aboves TH on ebay as once it went past $50 I was like no way. Funny as i was watching it for a few days. LoL. Just do some reading. The Holsets have me hooked. Why I have a HX52 now. Now I just need another 6K for machine work and more engine goodies to be able to run it.

Yea, a Bullseye housing = .55 a/r. Great for spool but killer for good pump gas number or high power. But I know the cams cannot go very far w/ a stock intake manifold. . .

12cm^2. . . what's that about .9 A/R? That's great for 10K rpms. I'm looking to possibly the same goal. If the TH has the same flange as a t3 or t4 for their respective turbines, then I'm hooked! I've heard nothing but phenomenal reviews: a testamony to their efficiency and resiliance.

Do you know where I could get compressor maps?

93AWDTalon1 · Apr 20, 2006

The Hx40's p-trim size turbine wheel seems to flow good in bullseye's housing. In slowboy's turbo testing they go a little over 500awhp at 27psi. Now if they would post up the rest of there results we could see just how far the Bullseye housing can go.

Pennywise · Apr 22, 2006

50 trim......

Burnett03 · Apr 22, 2006

Maglin said:
I've debated using a restrictor but have decided to just build a oil pressure regulator. That way I can put an oil pressure gauge on it and definitly know that my turbo is getting the oil that it should. I'll just use the same type of oil sending unit that I use for my engine oil pressure and use the same gauge and just install a switch to switch between the 2. I don't want more gauges in my car than need be.

What are your goals. The Bullseye TH is good for most people. Past 6500 RPM it's to much of a restriction for me. I wish I could put a backpressure gauge in my manifold and know for sure. Only thing I know is that it seems to really fall on it's face. It could be my cams though. I do know that I'm looking to be turning 10K RPMS or better and by 7500 the current TH will just be a big restriction.

If you have a T3 Manifold you can just use the Holset TH that comes with the turbo. You will need to do some work on your exhaust but I'm sure you and your exhaust shop or fabricator can come up with a solution. The HX40 I believe is a Full T4 TH and yes is much bigger. I wanted to try the HX35 with the 12cm^ holset TH, but I threw mine away when I moved. Looked at the posters aboves TH on ebay as once it went past $50 I was like no way. Funny as i was watching it for a few days. LoL. Just do some reading. The Holsets have me hooked. Why I have a HX52 now. Now I just need another 6K for machine work and more engine goodies to be able to run it.

a -3an line will also solve this problem

dsm-onster · Apr 22, 2006

93AWDTalon1 said:
The Hx40's p-trim size turbine wheel seems to flow good in bullseye's housing. In slowboy's turbo testing they go a little over 500awhp at 27psi. Now if they would post up the rest of there results we could see just how far the Bullseye housing can go.

Pleasing, very pleasing! I will definately look at this as an upgrade to my 60-1 (RS60T). Hmm, perhaps my current bullseye housing could be machined for the p-trim wheel, if ther eis enough aterinal left in the right places. . . probably so. But, nevertheless. I want tknow what this sucker will do w/ high boost too!!! I've seen some great results w/ this turbo on the turboford forums. Crazy boost at high flows! So, if she can still come together w/ a decent spool (under 5K) w/ the bullseye housing, it would be a bolt on love affair!

Maglin · Apr 23, 2006

Burnett03 said:
a -3an line will also solve this problem

Yes I've know about that. I'm looking for something more accurate though. I'm probably going to run a -3 AN line if I can't find the parts needed to run a pressure regulator and not cost me over $100.

PRESSURIZED · Jun 18, 2006

Okay well I slapped on a SBR M-50 50 trim I got off a buddy of mine for cheap.

Nice turbo IMO, it pulls harder on top end for sure I can hit 20+psi at 4000rpm. My evo b16g spooled much faster but the 50 trim shines on top-end power no doubt

daren_p · Jun 18, 2006

With the upgraded turbo what kind of lb/min are you seeing now & at what boost level? We have similar setups, like you before I see 34 lb/min @ 20 psi and plan on upgrading to a 50 trim for next summer but probably a BB version to keep the quick spool. Was wondering why you descided to go to a bigger turbo instead of cams first? You could probably pick up 4 or so lb/min on the b16g with cams & you still would have the quick spool. Maybe an emissions issue? If so there are still cams out there that will pass emissions & give you a big bump in flow :thumb:

. I'm in the middle of the cams/valvetrain upgrade right now.

PRESSURIZED · Jun 19, 2006

daren_p said:
With the upgraded turbo what kind of lb/min are you seeing now & at what boost level? We have similar setups, like you before I see 34 lb/min @ 20 psi and plan on upgrading to a 50 trim for next summer but probably a BB version to keep the quick spool. Was wondering why you descided to go to a bigger turbo instead of cams first? You could probably pick up 4 or so lb/min on the b16g with cams & you still would have the quick spool. Maybe an emissions issue? If so there are still cams out there that will pass emissions & give you a big bump in flow . I'm in the middle of the cams/valvetrain upgrade right now.

My next addition to my setup will be a top-end thing. I just got a larger turbo for the future mods I will be doing.

I will be doing a magnus SMIM, ported 6 bolt head with some FP2's and a cometic/arp combo. Until this 7 bolt block dies Im keeping it in there.

BTW, with the 50 trim Im seeing 40-42 lbs/min at 20-21psi on pump gas. Race gas should be fun.

BatmanGSX · Jun 19, 2006

A Good AND cheap alternative? Can't think of anything. Closest that comes to mind is a 50-Trim in a PTE bolt on housing. Nothing with a Bullseye housing is good. Period.

daren_p · Jun 19, 2006

Have you looked at the FP2x cams? They do require upgraded valve springs, FP recommends dual springs but several guys are running them here with upgraded singles. They offer abit more lift over the origional 2's for that top end power but also have an increased ramp rate to keep alot more of the bottom/mid compared to the origional 2's. I'm going with their 1x cams, I chose this route to keep the car happy as far as emissions goes. They offer the same lift as the origional FP2's but have an increased ramp rate as well to keep the bottom/mid. They also have less overlap then the smaller FP1/FP2 combo, to pull more vacuum & keep emissions happy.

PRESSURIZED · Jun 19, 2006

daren_p said:
Have you looked at the FP2x cams? They do require upgraded valve springs, FP recommends dual springs but several guys are running them here with upgraded singles. They offer abit more lift over the origional 2's for that top end power but also have an increased ramp rate to keep alot more of the bottom/mid compared to the origional 2's. I'm going with their 1x cams, I chose this route to keep the car happy as far as emissions goes. They offer the same lift as the origional FP2's but have an increased ramp rate as well to keep the bottom/mid. They also have less overlap then the smaller FP1/FP2 combo, to pull more vacuum & keep emissions happy.

Hmmm might be interesting to see how these work on my setup, maybe a little faster spool over the FP2

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