ok guys, i have one more thing to share about the size cause i really want mine in the din-hole:
the din measurements are approx: 177mm x 51mm and the new safc II is 126mm x 52mm.....this extra 1mm or so could be taken care of so easily with simply a file....it appears that it will fit great!

Brian

The new AFC allows for warning beeps and flashes.. all warning are user preset and you can basically have the AFC warn you about whatever you deem

Originally posted by L2RTSiAWD
But think about this.

Even if it reads knock You can't log it. so what's the point. Are going to have someone stare at the AFC while you do a WOT run and write down the knock vaules at each RPM?

If it's like the old AFC the only thing you can do is set it to tell you the max knock it saw on one run.

Click to expand...

Originally posted by DSMkid14
I WANT SOME RESULTS!!!! ...

Click to expand...

we are bringing the car back shortly and we will begin tuning and trying to get the settings work. keep tuned for more updates

cool. Will you be able tio tell us then if it reads knock

The knock feature looks to be fuzzy logic in nature. We will be testing that first and foremost. We just installed a SAFC II into a 1st gen so we will be testing that one first.. Stay tuned

alright cool man. Just don't forget us 2g guys

Could anyone explain what fuzzy logic means? Heard it used a few times but never got a meaning

fuzzy logic is something that needs parameters fed to it in order to work properly. Unlike most plug and play peripherals, something like an AVC-R is a fuzzy logic device. for example you need to "train" the unit before you can start changing settings. hope that helps.

Um does anyone on here even know what a knock sensor is? Its just a microphone, so reading the knock sensor isn't all that big of a deal. The problem is that the AFC will just give a knock # which won't mean a lot. The louder the motor gets, the higher the # will go. So as you go up the RPMs, the # will go up. You would have to know want an acceptable knock # is at each RPM. Thats what the ECU does, it has filters and maps that know how much noise to ignore at specific RPM and load numbers. If the noise goes beyond what is "normal" then it inteprets it as knocking and starts giving a knock sum in the ECU and possibly pulling timing. If you using a 1G datalogger or DSMLink on the 2G, the ECU takes care of it all for you and just gives you a usable knock #. On the AEM, it also just gives a raw knock count # like the AFC, but in the AEM you can program in a table to ignore numbers below a specific amount at specific RPMs.

Yes it is just a microphone, but there are a lot of different noises in an engine bay, not just knocking. What the ecu does, is it filters the specific type of voltage that is only attributed to noises made by knock and disreguards everything else. ECU filters the knock signal for certain frequencies, and then finds the magnitude of this select frequency range. So unless you can match a filter up to this, you wont be getting the same values the ECU does.

A further problem is that if you try to read the knock sensor before it gets to the ecu, will affect the signal the ECU sees, and mess up the knock count that ecu sees! Real Bad! There is no getting around this unless you design a good buffer circuit.

Option 2) The only other way is if you to trace the knock sensor circuit inside the ECU, then find exactly where it is fed into the microprocessor. Read this signal as an analog voltage, and that should be directly related to knock sum.

Since we know the S-AFC II does not plug into the signal in the ECU the only way to read the knock is directly (Not Option 2). Apex would have to have the right buffer circut and filter inside the SAFC unit. This type of circuitry would be specific to only the mitsubishi 2G's ECU! But since the AFC is to be used with multiple types of cars this is not feasible.

IN OTHER WORDS IT WONT WORK!!!

You were that bastard who ran around and told the first grade class there wasn't a Santa Claus too, weren't you?

The old AFC has a "peak hold" funtion, so if the new one has it, that will allow you to see if its knocking somewhere in the RPM band. Then just have a friend watch it and tell you where it knocked at. I believe the new afc is supposed to have some sort of logging anyway ( not like 4 hours or anything ). I don't wanna crash the 2G party, but I doubt it will read knock, and even if it does, how usable is that number going to be ?

EX: The AFC says your knocking "XXX" in 3rd@4500RPM, so what ? how much is XXX ?? Is that the same as the normal knock scale ? ODB2 3S cars can datalog, why can't the 96+DSM ?

I hope it works out for the 2G guys. If it works on the 2G DSM that means it will work on a 94-95 3S, which can't datalog b/c it is a odb1-ob2 hybrid. Someone needs to make solution for these mistu knock sensors...

96+ DSMs can datalog, its just that generic OBD2 does not support output of knock sum like the DSM specific 1G dataloggers do. The ECU knows the knock sum, its just that OBD2 doesn't have a way to tell you. If you have a DSMLink, you can get at the knock.

On a side note, we have one of the new AFCs in the shop and it has some sort of table setup for the knock. There are no english instructions at all, so I don't know exactly how it works yet. So it might be halfway useful, if it doesn't mess up the knock that the ECU sees like DCJ98GST said it might.

Well i was going to get an AFC anyway's so better the new than the old i always' say!

Hey guys, our second part of the writeup is here

http://www.prostreetonline.com/pso/pages/howto/2gnewafc2.asp?sessionId=

Enjoy

Originally posted by L2RTSiAWD
But think about this.

Even if it reads knock You can't log it. so what's the point. Are going to have someone stare at the AFC while you do a WOT run and write down the knock vaules at each RPM?

If it's like the old AFC the only thing you can do is set it to tell you the max knock it saw on one run.

Click to expand...

Not entirely true. With the new the driver can set up various warning functions in order to monitor the engine operation. These functions include incoming air flow rate, suction pipe pressure, engine knock rpm, etc.

just to say you guys who are interested check out the group buy i just put out. It's in the classifieds, trader, and talk.

Very cool guys. Great thread. Great walkthrough on prostreet too

By chance...does the SAFC II say "WARNING MANIFOLD DANGER!!!"? That would be tyte yo..

Seriously, at what point does one really need to go this route? After the fuel pump and injectors? Or should you first try and use it to tune the stock setup, and then upgrade fuel system components?

You'll need some kind of fuel controller before you install injectors.