"Please remember that it is hard to compare the HKS 264/272 int/ex cams with the Web street grind 274/256 int/ex. Seperate and unique schools of thought, don't you think?"

In all honesty, when I made the comment "Just get the best cams the first time" I was meaning to get the 272/272 over the 264/272, since once someone commits to buying cams for their car, they'll eventually "outgrow" that little 264 intake and wish they had the 272.

As for comparing the hks "street" combo with the web grinds you mentioned, I don't see the problem comparing the two. However, having said that, if you've had good luck with the Webs, keep using them. As always, I was stating my own opinion when I said that I'd never put cams other than HKS in my cars, and after thinking about it, that's not even true. I would also try JUN cams.

I have yet to hear ANYONE complain about HKS cams other than the price, which is not expensive for what you get.

I think that says something.

I'd love to try JUN cams (Their stuff is ultra quality), but stock cams with a "big" T28 turbo are quite enough. Maybe once I get an L1R.

OK, in all reality HKS cams are the same price as any crower or web cam will ever be. (let me step on my soapbox)

Why are the HKS cams about $150 more expensive than the crowers/webs (I'll just say c/w from now on), the HKS's are made from billet material so they won't wear away over time. Oh wait, the c/w's are now made from billit material too. So there is no worry over the c/w's wearing away anymore. The MAIN reason the HKS's are so expensive is in the manufacturing process...HKS cams are ground on center. This means when you install the cams they are going to be degree'd correctly out of the box. The C/W cams are NOT ground on center, which means to get the most power out of them you would need to purchase a degreeing kit ($100) or have some shop degree the cams for you (or spend some time with a dyno just degreeing cams). So in the long run you will spend the same ammount of money for these cams. This is also why the HKS's aren't as lumpy at idle as the webs and some crower grinds.

I can tell you this with certain...and I can also tell you for certain that the HKS's are proven to make power. With the c/w cams some people make power and some don't.

Hmm...now who here has heard of the HKS 304 cams....drool... Same category of part as the HKS 4g63 T4 Exhaust manifold. They only made a run of 50 and they are hard as pig nuts to find...but rumor has it that these cams are IT when it comes to power.

Originally posted by dyezak
The C/W cams are NOT ground on center, which means to get the most power out of them you would need to purchase a degreeing kit ($100) or have some shop degree the cams for you (or spend some time with a dyno just degreeing cams).

Click to expand...

When factoring that dont forget to include cam gears which are anywhere from $250-400

There was so much bad info in this thread I need some aspirin.

Originally posted by GrocMax
There was so much bad info in this thread I need some aspirin.

Click to expand...

Thank you for sharing that Scott

...There was so much bad info in this thread I need some aspirin....

Care to enlighten us on which bad info you were referring to?

Regards,

You liked that one, you'll love this one-

I hereby give NosLaser the "DG" award, for longest rambling posts EVER.

Originally posted by NosLaser
...There was so much bad info in this thread I need some aspirin....

Care to enlighten us on which bad info you were referring to?

Regards,

Click to expand...

Nah, y'all got it covered.

Originally posted by GrocMax
You liked that one, you'll love this one-

I hereby give NosLaser the "DG" award, for longest rambling posts EVER.

Click to expand...

Now I wouldn't go that far! DG can speak (write) English, and his posts contain factual information.

You give noslaser too much credit.

Yeah, pretty much figured you had nothing to say. As usual.

Regards,

Huh? Did I miss something? Where in my posts is there lack of proper English, and where is there non-factual information? I invite you both to eat sh!t because you have NOTHING to back it up..other than your internet toughguy bullcrap...once again, as usual. Instead of talking your usual bullsh*t, why don't you pull out some FACTS? Focking liberal women...

Regards,

Pretty much.

Until someone in this thread bothers to actually measure several cam profiles, rather than quote bullshit advertized numbers, the only real data they can contribute is such as what Nate stated- ran car, got baseline, put in Cam XXX, ran XX MPH faster no other changes.

And just do to the fact nobody has piped up about getting oddball degree readings with some of the cams listed strongly suggests to me they didn't set them up, or don't understand how to do it properly.

None of the cams listed have enough overlap to make this engine idle badly when properly set up. 272/272 will idle very nicely at stock RPM at HKS recommended 105/111 lobe centers.

dyezak: sounds like you have a killer setup there. I actually live just west of Frederick so hopefully once I get my GVR-4 up & running I'll take it to the track (at a tranny shop in Frederick right now actually). I take it you go to 75/80. From everything I've read on cams anywhere it seems like the HKS are the way to go. I have yet to read one complaint about them other than price. Hopefully I'll catch you around the area this spring/summer & can check out the cams/idle.

...Pretty much....



...Until someone in this thread bothers to actually measure several cam profiles, rather than quote bullshit advertized numbers, the only real data they can contribute is such as what Nate stated- ran car, got baseline, put in Cam XXX, ran XX MPH faster no other changes....

Why don't YOU do it internet jockey? Your ideals make me sick. You sit back with your arms folded across your chest, waving your hardon around on an internet forum about how nobody tests things, etc. but yet you won't step up to the plate and do it yourself. I didn't post power gains with either cam combo; I merely stated I had good luck with the Webs. My posts were pretty much entirely information on how things work, and why they work, not bashing or glorifying any cam setup. Since you decided to bring my name into your whole little 'bad info' pride parade, I went ahead and replied accordingly.

Regards,

Originally posted by GrocMax

And just do to the fact

Click to expand...

While we are busting on my English for whatever ridiculous reason (never heard that one before) you may want to see if what you are saying is DUE to your own shortcomings with the language. Tool...

Regards,

Aslan, I think you went on the defensive too early. "DG" refers to Dennis Grant, who's posts are generally very long, slightly rambling, but essentially good hard data or observed data. If you wish to believe I singled you out, so be it.

...Now I wouldn't go that far! DG can speak (write) English, and his posts contain factual information.

You give noslaser too much credit....

Perhaps you missed that comment...

Regards,

Just plain ol' how to use the forum here:

Well for one I know that he (and almost every one else) understands how to QUOTE properly.

Stop with the diahrea of the mouth, and learn how to use the PC. That would be a good start to some useful posts that are easy to read.

English:

Sentences end with a period. Only one! It's on the keyboard directly under the ">" mark. Remember, although it's easy to get excited and put a whole bunch in there, only one is needed.

Originally posted by NosLaser
...Now I wouldn't go that far! DG can speak (write) English, and his posts contain factual information.

You give noslaser too much credit....

Perhaps you missed that comment...

Regards,

Click to expand...

I didn't make that comment, Sir.

Originally posted by rdrkt

When factoring that dont forget to include cam gears which are anywhere from $250-400

Click to expand...

Oh yea, and those too!! So in all reality HKS cams will be $200 cheaper than crowers or webs.

HKS Cams $600

Crower/Webs $450
Adj Cam Gears $250
Degree Wheel Set/Dyno Time/Paying someone to do it $100

Originally posted by Johnny Bravo
dyezak: sounds like you have a killer setup there. I actually live just west of Frederick so hopefully once I get my GVR-4 up & running I'll take it to the track (at a tranny shop in Frederick right now actually). I take it you go to 75/80. From everything I've read on cams anywhere it seems like the HKS are the way to go. I have yet to read one complaint about them other than price. Hopefully I'll catch you around the area this spring/summer & can check out the cams/idle.

Click to expand...

Bah, it's nothing crazy or fancy...just a grouping of parts that are proven to work well together. There are some guys around our area that have some CRAZY setups, Russ Cox, Brad Brooks to name a few. Both are on the verge of 9's. 75/80 (barf)...that is the worst track I have ever been to and will never run my car there...EVER. Mason Dixon is OK and so is MIR. There are no great tracks around here, although I'm going to check out Atco in May to see how that one is.

...Just plain ol' how to use the forum here:

Well for one I know that he (and almost every one else) understands how to QUOTE properly....

I do too. (See above) It's just my style; the way I choose to do things. What exactly using the quote function and not being able to speak in complete and concise sentences have to do with eachother is completely beyond me.

...Stop with the diahrea of the mouth, and learn how to use the PC. That would be a god start to some useful posts that are easy to read...

You seem to be the only one that has a problem with it, as you are the only one to mention anything. Ever. You sure you aren't taking any medication that could be impairing your ability to comprehend simple typed words?

...English:

Sentences end with a period. Only one! It's on the keyboard directly under the ">" mark. Remember, although it's easy to get excited and put a whole bunch in there, only one is needed....

Hmmm... I guess you have NEVER in a million years seen a sentence that is designed to be displayed as a run-on or continuing thought end in a '...' Wait!! I think I understand now!! Me not using the quote function, and me ruining the finest years of your life by typing '...' instead of '.' must constitute that I can't speak the English language. You are right. And it sure says a LOT about the merit of the other lame sh*t you try to bash me for... I'm still waiting for you to pull the bad info out of my posts. Oh yeah, they are too hard to read...

Regards,

GrocMax,

You are right. You didn't make that comment. Just assumed it was the dynamic duo at work once again...

Regards,

Posted by Grocmax:
"...Until someone in this thread bothers to actually measure several cam profiles, rather than quote bullshit advertized numbers, the only real data they can contribute is such as what Nate stated- ran car, got baseline, put in Cam XXX, ran XX MPH faster no other changes.... "

Posted By NosLaser:

"Why don't YOU do it internet jockey? Your ideals make me sick. You sit back with your arms folded across your chest, waving your hardon around on an internet forum about how nobody tests things, etc. but yet you won't step up to the plate and do it yourself."

Actually, I seem to remember talking to Scott on this before. He *HAS* done this already.

You're in over your head on this one "fer sure".:laugh: