building a 2.4, weiscos or JE's

Leitnin · Sep 6, 2005

Like the topic says, Im building a 2.4L g4cs 6 bolt. Im trying to decide on pistons and rods.

I was pretty sure I was going to do a weisco/eagle combination, but a local guy tells me JE has redesigned their pistons and they are now superior to the weiscos and don't have the whole mess with piston slap.

Anyone know more about this or have a recommendation on the 2.4 build?

Im also wondering what kind of headwork I should have done for a 2.4 that will probably be running something like a 50 trim, or maybe a slightly larger turbo, but nothing huge.

thanks

iwantawd · Sep 6, 2005

i suggest weiscos, they will work fine for you and save money.

Leitnin · Sep 6, 2005

I know they will work fine and I know they will save money, Im just curious as to what the advantage would be so I can decide if its worth it

(although, I will probably go with the weiscos)

the rods Id be using:
ESP Forged Steel H-Beam Connecting Rods
Here is the part number. CRS5900MA3D.
anything wrong with that picture?

spshocker61 · Sep 6, 2005

What about the Magnus long-rod setup? Why aren't more guys looking into this? I guess it just makes more sence to me seems it takes advantage of the longer stroke on a 2.4 build. What are people's thoughts on this setup?

98talonAWD · Sep 6, 2005

i would either get Wiseco's or Ross. i have built 3 motors in the last 2 years and i have only used Wisecos and Ross pistons. they work great. they had nothing to do with the reason i had to build a different motor.

Victory · Sep 8, 2005

The last time I heard Wiseco owns JE. Can't go wrong either way.

project_tsi · Sep 8, 2005

I don't know if Wiseco owns JE. But

My personal preference is Wiseco's. Heres why:

My friend built a 2.5L Chrysler turbo engine using Oliver rods/ JE pistons. The pistons were quite a bit out of spec when he took them to the machine shop for assembly. They did NOT come w/ any rings, just pins and clips. Long story short, after proper machine work, etc, he had lots of piston slap during cold starts, etc. He also never let the engine warm up before hammering it, he was a dumbass. He ended up killing that engine in less than 3000 miles.

On the other hand, meet my other friend Dave. Dave built a 2.2L Chrysler turbo engine using Wiseco Pistons and Eagle Rods. (Yes I have a lot a Stinking Chrysler Friend

) Any ways the Chrysler 2.2L and 2.5L are actually the same block just the 2.2L is machined down lower, and diff. crank etc.
Anyways, when taken to the machine shop, The Wiseco's were very close to spec and came w/ Pins, clips, and Rings, all for about $120 less then the JE's w/o rings. So total was about $250 saved over JE. Upon cold starts, there is some piston slap, but not ever as near as much as was on the JE's. Let the car sit for about 3-4 minutes and it went away never to return until the engine was cold again. This is his daily driver (A Dodge Shadow) and now has over 25,000 miles on this engine, still going strong. He also boosts around 18psi daily.

Now the reason in the pistons is that The Wiseco's have a higher Silicone content than the JE's. This allows the pistons to heat up faster and expand at a faster rate during warm up than the JE's.

Now, don't get me wrong. JE makes good pistons, I just wouldn't use them in my DD. I'd use JE's in a strictly race car only. So if your planning on DD your's my advice is Wiseco.

Hope this helps, Dan

nanokpsi · Sep 8, 2005

Does anyone now the power rating's on the wiscos? I would hate the eak link in the engine to be a set of pistons that I bought to save 100. I was actually looking at the Magnus pistons for my 2.4.

As for the LR option, it adds a good deal opf money to the build. I have seen standard 2.4s make right around 700whp so I figured I would go with that. Plus I got a brand new set of Crower rods for less than 600

. At any rate, has anyone heard of power/pressure rea;ted failures with the wisecos?

Precision · Sep 8, 2005

Victory said:
The last time I heard Wiseco owns JE. Can't go wrong either way.

Wiseco has noting to do whith JE. And wiseco is a buget piston. If you want to buy I nice set of forged pistons get JE. The extra $50 is worth it. :thumb:

MNGSX · Sep 8, 2005

You have'nt seen some of the problems the JE guys had with piston slap. Really beat up bores on daily drivers.

The wisecos are also alot lighter.

Brian Nutter-Wiseco Piston co said:
Forged pistons will almost always make more noise than cast, but to help compensate,-Wiseco offsets the wrist pins like the factory o.e. to allow the piston to "roll" up the cylinder wall instead of straight pinned pistons slapping the top land against the cylinder at rock-over at tdc.

As for price, I thought the bean-counters would add $100 to them, so we kept them low to begin with...Maybe we should raise to price to be indicative of the quality put in them compared to what I've seen from some other manufacturers.

As for expansion, 2618 alloy has basically the same expansion rate between all the piston companies that use it. Forging design is more important than alloy when it comes to how tight you can run a forged piston. We've designed the forging to be very forgiving to clearance changes. Skirt shape (cam and taper) play a huge roll as well and we've spent a long time getting it right.

The crown of a piston may only average 650 degree's by the time you average the power stroke and the cooling intake stroke. The bottom of the skirt bleeds off heat through the cylinder wall and see's something closer to 260 degree's or so (similar to oil temperatures). -This is why rings lands are so much smaller in diameter than piston skirts and why pistons grow larger in diameter the farther down the skirt you measure.

I'll phrase the next part this way, hopefully it explains a lot of differences between piston companies: Some companies do not have forgings that are dedicated to the Mitsubishi 4g63. They often weigh 30-60 grams more than a Wiseco. They often require a lot of internal milling to get the weights comparable to a Wiseco. Their expansion is greater because of the extra mass and the parts cant be run as tightly as a Wiseco. --Because we design forgings, build forging dies, and build our own forgings, our K548m85 kit comes in at 327 grams. This is light compared to most companies even though our crown thickness is greater. Look underside most Wiseco pistons and you won't see any "hacking" to get the weight down. This keeps the piston MUCH stronger as the "skin" of the forging prevents stress-risers from forming.

gsx951 · Sep 8, 2005

MNGSX said:
You have'nt seen some of the problems the JE guys had with piston slap. Really beat up bores on daily drivers.

The wisecos are also alot lighter.

Plus the folks at JE are disorganized and confused. The part number on the ring set has changed 3 times since my motor was built.
First guy at JE tells me that ALL pistons for DSM 2.3 are completely custom and there is no way to get a ring set without the piston number (which is not on the piston B/T/W/)
Second guy gives me a number that I pass on to Jerod at Buschur. Jerod calls and they tell him the numbers are incorrect: no such number exists.
Third phone call reveals that guy #1 & #2 have no damn idea what they're talking about and that there was a number of changes made to JE's identification system resulting in 3 part numbers for the same damn item. Guy #3 is able to give a proper part number that allows me to order rings.
With customer service and tech like this you have to wonder what else can go/is wrong.

I wish I would have read Marco's JE analogy where he compares their pistons to McDonald's before I got stuck with these. Big-Wig was on it and I'll not deal with these people again.

G9S1X · Sep 8, 2005

One of the guys from SBR said JE is good for n/a but not forced induction motors. Ended up going with Ross :thumb:

1990greenGSX · Sep 9, 2005

Precision said:
Wiseco has noting to do whith JE. And wiseco is a buget piston. If you want to buy I nice set of forged pistons get JE. The extra $50 is worth it.

Actually, we deal with Wiseco direct and carry JE aswell. Wiseco is the parent company of JE, 100% sure of it! As for the choice of pistons, like stated earlier JE is known for piston slap. I know this becuase i have ran them in my 6bolt 2g i had. At start up sounded like a can full of gravel in there!! We have had alot of success with the wiseco pistons in the 2.0, 2.3, 2.4 and our custom spec 2.1 motors.. They are my preference right next to Ross and are alot cheaper than JE. If you have any questions go ahead and email me direct [email protected] or call in my ext is 12!

Mark
SBR

f4st · Sep 15, 2005

Precision said:
Wiseco has noting to do whith JE. And wiseco is a buget piston. If you want to buy I nice set of forged pistons get JE. The extra $50 is worth it.

Wrong.

Victory · Sep 16, 2005

I thought Brian over at Wiseco told me that they were associated with JE. I've run Wiseco in everything we have ever built and they'be been great.

Scott

1990greenGSX · Sep 16, 2005

Victory said:
I thought Brian over at Wiseco told me that they were associated with JE. I've run Wiseco in everything we have ever built and they'be been great.

Scott

HAHA, yea Brian says associated. But he told me that he considers them a sister company, but Wiseco paid for them?! That to me says parent company! But they own alot more companies than people would believe. Wiseco is bigger than alot think

Mark
SBR

hostile · Sep 16, 2005

Wiseco used to be more expensive than ross and right there with JE pistons, now you can get them for 400 dollars with coated skirts and precision calls them a budget piston.

Maybe wiseco has a better business model and can build a quality piston at a cheaper price? :thumb:

f4st · Sep 16, 2005

The reason why I went with wiseco over JE is because my engine builder said he has built engines with both pistons and the wisecos dont expand and contract as much so you dont get horrible piston slap like some people do with JEs. My cars going to be a DD so its more important to try to maintain as much of stock like driveability instead of having a piston that can hold 1000hp.

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