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600HP Build List?

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1000hpgsx

10+ Year Contributor
73
6
Sep 17, 2010
Rockland, Maine
Hey guys, long backstory to my car but the very short version is I’ve put 10 miles on it in the last 10 years. Had an issue with it and I’m kind of starting over and looking for a build list.
I know my username… I was probably 23 when I made it LOL
with that said I’m looking to make around 600hp, 1/8th mile track and occasional 1/4 track. Weekend warrior is an overstatement as I never drive it. However, I would like it semi street-able.
I think my head is still good with oversized valves and that’s it. I imagine I should do cakes and springs.
7bolt with DSM Link. I do have pistons and rods but the engine is going to the shop.
So what I’m looking for is a list of parts to help me have a checklist of sorts.

Thanks for any help guys!
 
Well I really think you will need some larger injectors and a big pump to feed them for your goals. I'm saying don't under build. Put the biggest in and tune around them. You are asking A LOT out of gasoline. If you ever tried E85, you would see the advantages and even the reason some run methanol. Gas will limit your timing and not have cooling effects that alternative fuels can provide. Best to plan more than you want. If you aren't planning on twin pumps I can suggest the 525 Hellcat pump. I have them in all 3 of my DSMs.
As for the turbo, that thing should be great at 40 lbs. My journal bearing HX40 is good up to there. :thumb:
 
I really wish I could do E85. Closest station (and only one in my state) is 2 hours one way. That’s Maine for ya. So for now I just want to stick to pump 91.
I’ll definitely look at that pump.
And good advice for not under building, that’s what I was thinking too. But you’re saying go even bigger with the injectors huh? Okay
 
I still don't know how much PSI that 6766 will be at if flowing 60lbs/min. Any ideas there?

The boost pressure comes into it only for knowing where to look on your fuel pump charts that show flow rate versus fuel pressure. Because your fuel pressure at the pump outlet is going to be base (~43psi) plus max boost (probably 30 to 40 psi) plus whatever pressure loss there is in your fuel lines, filter, and fittings (probably 5 to 10 psi). So if you end up needing 35 psi of boost to make your power target, you can figure that the pressure at the pump outlet is going to hit somewhere between 83 and 88 psi. See what your pump chart shows for flowrate there. And notice that some intank pumps start falling off rapidly at around 80 psi.

If you want to take a shot at estimating the fuel flow rate you need to make the HP you want, check this out:

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The FIC chart takes your HP target and figures out the cc/minute per injector needed to theoretically make it there. It gives you cc/min for gasoline and for E85. For this purpose, you put 100% duty cycle into it because we aren't looking for injectors yet, we just want to know the approximate fuel flow by volume (cc/min). Not by mass (pounds). Take the cc/min number they give you for the fuel you want, and multiply by 4 to get total fuel flow for the 4 injectors.
Put that number into the flow rate converter. So there I get the answer of 261 liters per hour for gasoline. (At ~88psi as discussed in the first paragraph)

Here's the same thing but using the E85 number converted to liters per hour. It gives you 339 liters per hour. (At ~88psi as discussed in the first paragraph)

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Upsize those "final" numbers by a little just because that's a good idea, for your fuel pump flow required at about 88 psi as discussed in the first paragraph.
 
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The official Walbro chart for the "Hellcat" F90000285 pump shows 92 gallons per hour at 88psi.
That's 348 liters per hour. So that's what you would need if you were doing it with E85. For gasoline it could be quite a bit less.
So this is how you can pick a pump when you don't know exactly where you are going to wind up because maybe you haven't done the exact same build a dozen times before!


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I really wish I could do E85. Closest station (and only one in my state) is 2 hours one way. That’s Maine for ya. So for now I just want to stick to pump 91.
I’ll definitely look at that pump.
And good advice for not under building, that’s what I was thinking too. But you’re saying go even bigger with the injectors huh? Okay
I run 2150s in 2 cars with Holsets and they get used on E. Not 100% duty cycles, but glad to have the room to not max them out. :thumb:
 
Google Maps tells me Rockland Maine to "Steamboat Landing gas station" in Bar Harbour is about 1hr and 45min each way. Yup that's pretty bad if that is your nearest E85.

How would you buy methanol if you go that way with it?

Are you completely set on using methanol injection? That was my plan originally, for the same reason as you, that my nearest E85 station was a long ways away. I had already bought a pretty expensive meth/water injection system. But Lucas English talked me out of it. He said we can build you a flex-fuel setup that will make more power and at the same time will be on a much safer tune, and you would probably only need E60 to run it all-in.

Having 40% (or more) gasoline in the tank will give you longer range per tank, you won't have to make runs to buy E85 as often, and you can still be making 500 awhp on straight 92 octane pump gas whenever that's what's in your tank. 650 awhp on E60 or above, if you want it. So that's what we did. It works great. As with your plan I don't put many miles on the car.

I've been buying my ethanol 3 ways. All 3 are some distance away. I don't drive my Talon there. I drive my 1990 Toyota Corolla which gets good gas mileage and is super reliable and is even fun to drive. I take one or two 6 gallon outboard motor gas tanks with me to fill up. These tanks are very safe and are low not tall, so they won't tip over in the trunk.
***********
My house to the nearest E85 station (Snoqualmie, WA) -- 1 hour each way. I bring my tanks with the Toyota.
My house to English Racing in Camas WA -- 2 hours and 40 minutes each way. Here I bring my own tanks and they fill them up with E98 for about $7 per gallon.
My house to the nearest VP Fuels dealer (in Auburn, WA) -- 35 minutes each way. Here I buy VP X98 which is their E98. It's expensive. Lately it's $71 for a 5 gallon coated steel bucket.

In my Specs and Mods, the engine stuff has been working beautifully for 6 years now.
All the pain is in the Drivetrain section. Especially now after TMZ's fire, although I didn't have anything there when it happened.
 
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Dude buy a 55 gallon drum and fill it with e85, the power you can make on that over pump gas is substantial. When I switched I was running an evo 3 16g that pulled like a freight train with timing thru the roof. I beat a 412whp supercharged crown Vic, on a turbo the size of your fist at altitude LOL..
 
I don't understand why people ask questions and then just do whatever anyway. Some of us have done what you're asking and we did this like 15 years ago, We know the best way to achieve a goal. @bastarddsm made a post up there...I did as well but you decide you want to buy a 67mm turbo. Okay dude.
 
Cool down man. You have no idea why he's had the car for 10 years. Learn how to drive it? Are you serious with that statement?
The simple fact is he's ready to start the build yet you're trying to tear into two people at the same time unnecessarily with an 80 post count over 6 years.
Your recommended parts list could be ripped apart as well. Innovate, Walbro, ACT. Many would view your brand recommendations as misguided. The '95 rear diff swap might also warrant revision...

Lots of 500-700hp threads, I will agree with. After only so many, it's all recycled information at least in terms of what parts are still available today.

He's got your card there, though, Marty LOL
I only have 80 post’s because there’s no real need to post almost everything can be found on here I’m at the point that I am quite comfortable with the platform so answering questions is easy now.

As well as the fact that there’s a few hundred ways to get to 600 hp we can go from cheap to expensive real fast but the fact remains there’s been tried and true builds that consistently preform for exactly what the OPs asking

How many people have driven a 400hp car let alone 600hp I’m not saying it to be an ass there’s plenty of people who get the car and start just throwing cash at it and end up with something that they don’t enjoy iv seen it in a few cars.

The problem is you think I’m being an ass when iv said nothing but the truth and I’m trying to help point him in the right direction like so many others have. In this thread there’s nothing personal here just people sharing the knowledge they have gained over years of trial and error
 
@1990TSIAWDTALON , as far as I know I can't find a good source of E85 around here so I'll be on 91 pump. The airport will sell fuel however, to keep it simpler I'm just going to stick to pump.

@curt-s , I appropriate but I didn't take any offense. I knew someone would say something about how long I've been a member here and my username doesn't do me any favors haha
But yeah, I'm finally back in the state where the car lives and ready to get back into it. It has sat for many years with minimal work done.

Back to the fuel pump. I can just get the Walbro 450 and be done but I have 2 issues with that. One is I'm trying to learn and from what I've seen, that pump won't flow enough.
Is my logic correct in that you should pick a HP, figure the flow needed, pick the turbo, and then pick injectors that would outflow the turbo and a pump that would outflow the injectors? If that's the case, I still don't know how much PSI that 6766 will be at if flowing 60lbs/min. Any ideas there?
Your logic is solid you want to pick a turbo that will flow 20% more your max flow requirements say for instance you live at 4800’ in elevation your going to want a buffer as well as you don’t want to run the turbo on the ragged edge of the compressor map. So pick the smallest turbo that will meet your power goals as well as your psi limit (based on ring gap). I have no idea if youv already built your engine or not but that’s something you also need to factor into the build. The other catch is 600 wheel horsepower is going to require more that 60 lbs of airflow you have to account for parasitic drive train loss (there’s no real number but an estimate is around %25 on awd)
If your going to pick injectors that will outflow the turbo then just get the 2150s however it’s the same idea as the turbo what is your wiggle room what’s your budget if your budget isnt a factor get the biggest ones and never look back if you need them to be “perfectly sized” for your power goal so as to not over spend on injectors then match the airflow numbers there is no set standard on how much more flow the injectors need over a turbo. It’s whatever the vehicle builder decides to go.

I can tell you I’m on an hx35 and haven’t maxed out my walbro 450 yet at 35 psi

As for pump flow it’s based on how much boost your planning on running after all the hx35 will make 600hp on 40ish psi but a gt42 may make it at 30🤷🏼 so you need to make a decision then size the pump based on your turbo decision however that also comes to if you are running one on the oem hanger and fuel tank or if your getting an aftermarket aluminum tank with a sump so there’s a lot of open ended questions your asking everyone has given you the correct answers now it’s on you to make a choice the 450 will support 750hp worth of fuel and around 40psi of boost get a compressor map of the 6766 plot out your pressure ratios to give you an idea on what kind of boost pressure you’ll be at for 600 wheel horsepower

When you get the compressor map here’s a good video to help you
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2 pages of some bs going back an forth. Me and diambo have both had PROVEN 600whp cars that get the shit kicked out of them with lots and lots of race history and wins ect, and keep going and said the same thing. Not just speculated numbers and draggy passes. Just some reasonable parts, a stock 6 bolt will do it. rods and pistons will give you a bit more piece of mind, quibbling over what brand or design is stupid. Cams, pick some and run them. Old school hks are gentile on the valve train, and keep the lifters happy. I have kelford 272's and they make more power, but beat the lifters down and the f***er ticks all the time. If you are gonna do it with pump gas let it do it with rpm. Use a 2g head, with some sort of an intake that 's got smaller and shorter cross section runners. Maybe like an older jmf or something. That's gonna be the most important part of the build. The newer shit has way to much CSA to work right. An evo3 intake probably would work good, but it might have just a bit too long of runner. That's what I use on mine and it makes peak power at about 8000. You could retard the intake cam a touch and move the peak up higher. A race intake will make more power, but really kill the bottom, and with that 6766 it's gonna be LAZY alleady. On E85 mine made 550flywheelhp at 19psi. At 32 it made 750. Car is over 800 now at 30psi. stock tbody too.

Maybe the play is like evo3 intake, GSC S3's or Kelford TX280R, and run them like 3-4* advanced, maybe exhaust more. Gonna need to check valve to valve and ptv. Extra valve open area ought to help rpm, and advanced will help low end. idk, gotta try it. I played with this shit a TON on the dyno, and that's why my 3100lb car runs 9's at 30psi and lazy 1.7 60's and everyone else is busy jerkin it to draggy times, what rocket science fuel pump to run, and probably Fish records.

We ran S3's in my brothers all motor car, and run them advanced a lot from the cam card, it made way more midrange than smaller cams installed straight up, and still pulled to 9000. So that tells me it might be the hot setup for you if you don't mind that they are gonna be noisy it probably is gonna need head off an inspected every season or 2 depending on how hard you run it.

Anyway that 6766 ought to be able to make 600whp on 87, so it shouldn't be a problem with 91. I know mine makes over 500whp on 87 and it's a chinese wheeled 6466 I built. I pretty confident that swapping my turbo out for a 6766 it would go more than 600 on 91. Its just that getting everything right will make it even better.

The shining star of not having E85 available is that pump gas limits the torque you can make.

Last comments. them stupid ass 2150's are ass. Don't buy them. And come the f*** on, he's gonna make 600whp on 91, this doesn't need some rocket science fuel system. He might be able to get it done on a 255hp and a set of 1000cc injectors. Actually the new 350hp might be the ticket. The fuel tanks on a 2g are crammped or something so be wise here. Back in the old days they went 8's on some 950's and race gas.

It's a car, not rocket appliances.
 
2 pages of some bs going back an forth. Me and diambo have both had PROVEN 600whp cars that get the shit kicked out of them with lots and lots of race history and wins ect, and keep going and said the same thing. Not just speculated numbers and draggy passes. Just some reasonable parts, a stock 6 bolt will do it. rods and pistons will give you a bit more piece of mind, quibbling over what brand or design is stupid. Cams, pick some and run them. Old school hks are gentile on the valve train, and keep the lifters happy. I have kelford 272's and they make more power, but beat the lifters down and the f***er ticks all the time. If you are gonna do it with pump gas let it do it with rpm. Use a 2g head, with some sort of an intake that 's got smaller and shorter cross section runners. Maybe like an older jmf or something. That's gonna be the most important part of the build. The newer shit has way to much CSA to work right. An evo3 intake probably would work good, but it might have just a bit too long of runner. That's what I use on mine and it makes peak power at about 8000. You could retard the intake cam a touch and move the peak up higher. A race intake will make more power, but really kill the bottom, and with that 6766 it's gonna be LAZY alleady. On E85 mine made 550flywheelhp at 19psi. At 32 it made 750. Car is over 800 now at 30psi. stock tbody too.

Maybe the play is like evo3 intake, GSC S3's or Kelford TX280R, and run them like 3-4* advanced, maybe exhaust more. Gonna need to check valve to valve and ptv. Extra valve open area ought to help rpm, and advanced will help low end. idk, gotta try it. I played with this shit a TON on the dyno, and that's why my 3100lb car runs 9's at 30psi and lazy 1.7 60's and everyone else is busy jerkin it to draggy times, what rocket science fuel pump to run, and probably Fish records.

We ran S3's in my brothers all motor car, and run them advanced a lot from the cam card, it made way more midrange than smaller cams installed straight up, and still pulled to 9000. So that tells me it might be the hot setup for you if you don't mind that they are gonna be noisy it probably is gonna need head off an inspected every season or 2 depending on how hard you run it.

Anyway that 6766 ought to be able to make 600whp on 87, so it shouldn't be a problem with 91. I know mine makes over 500whp on 87 and it's a chinese wheeled 6466 I built. I pretty confident that swapping my turbo out for a 6766 it would go more than 600 on 91. Its just that getting everything right will make it even better.

The shining star of not having E85 available is that pump gas limits the torque you can make.

Last comments. them stupid ass 2150's are ass. Don't buy them. And come the f*** on, he's gonna make 600whp on 91, this doesn't need some rocket science fuel system. He might be able to get it done on a 255hp and a set of 1000cc injectors. Actually the new 350hp might be the ticket. The fuel tanks on a 2g are crammped or something so be wise here. Back in the old days they went 8's on some 950's and race gas.

It's a car, not rocket appliances.
He was asking for the break down as in don’t just throw parts at him he wants to know why someone would choose a 450 over a 255 probably should read all the comments befor jumping the gun there fella
 
Dude buy a 55 gallon drum and fill it with e85, the power you can make on that over pump gas is substantial. When I switched I was running an evo 3 16g that pulled like a freight train with timing thru the roof. I beat a 412whp supercharged crown Vic, on a turbo the size of your fist at altitude LOL..
I was driving 90 miles to fill up as many 5 gallon containers as I could in my Toyota Camry Wagon (found out DOT says maximum of FOUR.......oooops), then I went to a plastic 55 gallon drum in the back of my truck (what a bi*** to unload), and now, FINALLY, I have a station just 20 minutes away. I still fill up a couple containers to have at the house but now I drive right by the place every day on my way to work and back.
E85 WILL attract moisture so don't keep too much on hand and I would put the containers on a pallet (or off the floor so it doesn't attract moisture as easy).
Just the trials and tribulations I have been through.
By the way, it is down to $2.07/gal ATM.
 
This went from giving advice to a who had the biggest dick contest real quick…

But to give my 2 cents, I’ll echo the previous comments, he doesn’t need injectors/fuel system good for 800 on ethanol to make 600 on pump gas. It seems since ethanol became all the hype (and absolutely nothing wrong with it) people have forgotten just how much more ethanol is needed to make the same power. I’ve personally seen a car make about 650 on a Mustang dyno with 950s and I’m pretty sure a single 255 on straight 93 octane on a 6466. Directly after the same car with the same set up and fuel system made over 700 with 110 octane cam 2 in it. Yes that would be absolutely untrue if I said e85, talking 93 octane pump gas and 110 octane race gas scenarios that’s not in the least bit unrealistic. Hell I’d have to look at a log but making 450 on 93 octane I don’t think my 1150s even seen 50% idc.
 
Those are some nice numbers! :thumb:
 
This went from giving advice to a who had the biggest dick contest real quick…

But to give my 2 cents, I’ll echo the previous comments, he doesn’t need injectors/fuel system good for 800 on ethanol to make 600 on pump gas. It seems since ethanol became all the hype (and absolutely nothing wrong with it) people have forgotten just how much more ethanol is needed to make the same power. I’ve personally seen a car make about 650 on a Mustang dyno with 950s and I’m pretty sure a single 255 on straight 93 octane on a 6466. Directly after the same car with the same set up and fuel system made over 700 with 110 octane cam 2 in it. Yes that would be absolutely untrue if I said e85, talking 93 octane pump gas and 110 octane race gas scenarios that’s not in the least bit unrealistic. Hell I’d have to look at a log but making 450 on 93 octane I don’t think my 1150s even seen 50% idc.
does he need it no, but he wants to oversize his fuel system from what iv gathered from his posts. It seems he’s also interested in learning about how to size his fuel system I could be wrong not sure why people think there’s a contest going on 🤷🏼
 
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He doesn’t need it no he wants to oversized every his fuel system from what iv gathered from his posts. It seems he’s also interested in learning about how to size his fuel system I could be wrong not sure why people think there’s a contest going on 🤷🏼
Always comes down to a couple self proclaimed experts no one’s ever heard of arguing why they’re right and everyone else is wrong.
 
Always comes down to a couple self proclaimed experts no one’s ever heard of arguing why they’re right and everyone else is wrong.
I mean atleast he’s trying to learn vs someone just throwing parts at the build then not understanding how it all works and why it works a lot of this stuff can be used on other platforms it’s shocking how much of this helps when building say a 1600 hp ls engine
 
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