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Spyder Still Having Starting Issues

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FalpenHost

Probationary Member
25
3
Jun 10, 2022
Wellford, South_Carolina
To start out the car is a 1997 Spyder GS-T with a 16g turbo.

Almost entirely stock besides the 3” exhaust from down pipe and the 16g turbo. Around 140k miles. Motor was recently rebuilt. Car sit for 5 years before I bought it, plus it’s been sitting 8 months since I’ve owned it. Since then I have put over 8 gallons of fresh gas in it. The tank is almost full with new gas.

A little while ago I posted trying to figure out what was going on with this thing ever since I got it put back together. I’ll list everything I’ve checked and go from there.

Air: Almost everything is brand new except the SMIC and MAF sensor.

Fuel: I was having fuel issues that I was able to fix. Now I have consistent gas to the injectors and they are all pulsating fine.

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Spark: I have checked the gap on all 4 plugs. They’re all at .31.
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Also checked spark by holding the plug to the valve cover and checking for spark. All 4 have spark.

Timing: I have checked Timing and all 4 line up. Will include photos.
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Compression: I checked Compression across all 4. I am unable to get a warm test, because it will not start. But the numbers were consistently around 141-150.

Firing order: I currently have the 97 ECU in the car. I am using this diagram to run my plugs.
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Crank Sensor is brand new. I have flipped the CAS sensor both ways and neither really changed anything.
I have 2 ECU’s one is the stock 97 ECU which I was told may be bad so I bought a 95 EPROM and that didn’t change anything. Both pass the CEL test.

I will include 2 videos.
The first one is without starting fluid. In the video the car fires but immediately dies. It wants to run but something is preventing it.

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The second one is with starting fluid. The car will run for about 10 seconds with starting fluid. I am able to rev the motor, up to about 4k rpm but then it dies.

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I’m at a loss now. I’m hearing a few different guesses.
1) MAF sensor is bad
2) Fuel pressure (It comes out like a hose pipe, consistent, but it doesn’t spray extremely hard pressure)

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Last edited by a moderator:
Your 10s run sounds exactly like the classic out of fuel senerio. Perhaps clogged filter, weak pump, FPR isn't working properly. Fuel pressure should stay maintained for days in fuel injected engines if FPR is working properly. First thing I'd do is check/replace the FPR. If that's not it, then measure the fuel pressure. It should be 33 psi when running and 42-45 psi when you disconnect and plug the FPR vacuum hose with your finger.
 
How is your coolant temp sensor harness? Is it brittle and cracked at the sensor? If so that will cause a mess of headaches. Its also a cheap fix to replace that sensor as well.
 
First thing I'd do is check/replace the FPR.
Perhaps clogged filter, weak pump, FPR isn't working properly. Fuel pressure should stay maintained for days in fuel injected engines if FPR is working properly.
How do I test the FPR? I know the gas in vacuum line but there is none in there. There is also no gas in the return line connected to it as well. Not sure if that means it’s bad or not.
As far as the fuel pump is related I just replaced it considering the car sit 5 years I went ahead and replaced it. For the filter it was replaced when the new motor went in, but I took it off and tested it and it seemed fine.

How is your coolant temp sensor harness? Is it brittle and cracked at the sensor? If so that will cause a mess of headaches. Its also a cheap fix to replace that sensor as well.
I have not changed the actual sensor itself. The connector to the sensor actually got ripped off so I had to wire a new one on. So I know that the connector is working. As far as the actual sensor itself I can not say it’s good or bad. Any way to test it?
 
We already stated in the last thread that you made that you must see fuel coming out of the fuel return line. There is either not enough pressure in the rail to open the regulator and send fuel back to the tank or the regulator is faulty.

No reason to make two threads stating the same exact problems and that it runs on starting fluid. Doesn’t seem like you attempted to do anything we suggested in your previous thread.

-Daniel
 
We already stated in the last thread that you made that you must see fuel coming out of the fuel return line. There is either not enough pressure in the rail to open the regulator and send fuel back to the tank or the regulator is faulty.

No reason to make two threads stating the same exact problems and that it runs on starting fluid. Doesn’t seem like you attempted to do anything we suggested in your previous thread.

-Daniel
I have scrolled thru the last thread and do see where you commented that there should definitely be fuel coming out that return like and I need to connect the blue connector to 12v until fuel comes out that way.

I attempted a few things that were suggested such as:
Fuel injectors aren’t pulsating. I got new injectors.
Crankshaft Sensor is bad: Got a new crank sensor.
Checked the compression.

I will buy a new FPR.
 
While your engine is cranking you should hear the fuel pump turn on. It may prime for a sec when the key is turned on but will shut back off.
The fuel pump will then turn on once the ecu registers a tach signal.

Verify the fuel pump is turning on while you are cranking. If it is does not use the blue check connector and try to start it. If it starts it’s a signal issue to the pump.

Use the blue check connector and remove the fuel return hose. The fuel will not be overly pressurized it should just run out similar to a garden hose. I would of suggested doing that to remove the old fuel from the tank and then adding fresh fuel before mixing old and new gas also.

If fuel does not flow out of said return hose of fpr then your not building enough pressure or the regulator is junk.

-Daniel
 
When connecting to the blue connector I hear the beeping inside the car, but nothing fuel related happens. No fuel comes out the fuel line. Not sure what the reason for that is but all that happens when I connect 12v to the blue connector is just beeping from inside the car
Are you also cranking? Because on the turbo 2g (unlike the NA 2g) the engine has to be rotating (producing CAS pulses) to activate the FP.
 
While your engine is cranking you should hear the fuel pump turn on. It may prime for a sec when the key is turned on but will shut back off.
The fuel pump will then turn on once the ecu registers a tach signal.

Verify the fuel pump is turning on while you are cranking. If it is does not use the blue check connector and try to start it. If it starts it’s a signal issue to the pump.

Use the blue check connector and remove the fuel return hose. The fuel will not be overly pressurized it should just run out similar to a garden hose. I would of suggested doing that to remove the old fuel from the tank and then adding fresh fuel before mixing old and new gas also.

If fuel does not flow out of said return hose of fpr then your not building enough pressure or the regulator is junk.

-Daniel
So my fuel pump does cut in when trying to start the car. If you look at the last video it comes out the line like a hose pipe. The fuel pump is working.
The blue connector under the hood doesn’t do anything but make the inside of the car beep. No fuel comes out the fuel feed line when connecting 12v to the blue connector.
I will buy a new FPR and see if that fixes my issue.
But as you can see in the videos the fuel pump comes on and pumps gas to the feed line, the injectors are all pulsating. I do agree with you. I don’t think I can keep fuel pressure so this will be what I check next. Thank you.

Are you also cranking? Because on the turbo 2g (unlike the NA 2g) the engine has to be rotating (producing CAS pulses) to activate the FP.
I was not cranking and holding 12v to the blue connector. Figured that was pointless because when cranking the car I have fuel to the line so I don’t need the blue connector. But I did not know the motor has to be rotating to activate the fuel pump so it would make sense why it doesn’t work without the car being turnt over.
 
Verify the CTS is working or replace it. The ECU has to see the coolant temp or the car won't start.
 
I was not cranking and holding 12v to the blue connector. Figured that was pointless because when cranking the car I have fuel to the line so I don’t need the blue connector. But I did not know the motor has to be rotating to activate the fuel pump so it would make sense why it doesn’t work without the car being turnt over.
That's not what we meant. The connector is a direct jumper to the relay. If there is some other malfunction the jumper bypasses that. I question whether you have the right connector. I wouldn't apply 12v to anything else. Show us what you're doing.
 
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