I'd start with looking at the FPR. If it's priming the regulator should be adjusting pressure. Maybe the diaphragm is getting really cold & not being able to move because of being stiff from the cold. Next time it doesn't start try heating it up above freezing with a blow dryer or heat gun & see if it starts working.

Good idea I'll try that.thanks I'm open to any suggestions

What brand is the fpr?

Fuel labs

1kick said:

Good idea I'll try that.thanks I'm open to any suggestions

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'Below freezing' suggests water freezing someplace. I don't know the routing of the Eclipse/Talon fuel line (yet!) but on other Mitsu's of the early 90's it can freeze in the line from the tank to the filter (in the engine compartment) and block it.

I once drove a dog to an emergency vet 40 miles away over the mountains. Starting out at 8:00 PM it was 40 and windy but by the time we got there it was 20 and even windier. Car ran fine though. Parked, got dog treated, at 2AM car cranked, stumbled, died, would not start. Not even another pop. Sure enough, no fuel in the rail.

(I think that was the (female dog) with a stuck puppy. Not the time my wife was in the back trying to slow the bleeding enough to get the dog there alive after she chased a deer and caught up with it and the deer won or any of several other trips there that now all blur together ...)

AAA brought us home. The next day I changed the fuel pump -- no improvement, making it clear that the fuel line (just behind the pinch weld side rail in the Expo LRV) was blocked, most likely by ice. Took a warm day to get that cleared up.

It doesn't take a lot of water in a tank of gas to do this when it's below freezing. The two most common sources of water are (1) condensation in the tank for cars that aren't driven a lot -- say less than a tank of fuel every couple months, and (2) Water in the gas station's tank -- most likely to happen at stations that don't pump a lot of gas.

This can be tricky though: During warm weather the engine handles a bit of water okay although you may notice stumbling at idle or when starting. In continuous sub-freezing cold the water's frozen in the bottom of the tank -- it's going nowhere, so no problem then either ... unless it's just cold enough to freeze but the warm air passing under the car on a long drive melts the ice in the bottom of the tank. The water then carries over but freezes again in the fuel line where it doesn't get enough warm air or when you've stopped and the 20 degree breeze chills the line with water in there.

Defenses: (1) Try to avoid low-volume gas stations at times of the year when you get hard freezes alternating with above freezing temps. Not always practical but that's the best way -- I never went back to that small gas station again. (2) Try to start that part of the year with fresh fuel. (3) Pour a cup of denatured alcohol in the tank when weather conditions are as above -- alcohol is a traditional antifreeze -- actually was sold for use in the radiator when I was a boy.

E10 (or whatever) gas gives some protection but since it's well blended it doesn't quickly gobble up (and thus prevent freezing of) a blob of water from the gas hose. And of course the fact that E10 carries water around the system can cause its own problems -- tiny particles of aluminum oxide from the (aluminum) fuel rail can clog injectors, for example -- driving since that garbage began I've had two injectors block up in cars that were driven regularly and running okay.

Starting where you are right now I'd fill the tank on a day warm enough that the car runs okay and then promptly pour in a cup of denatured (ethyl, but poisoned ...) alcohol. You can get that in the paint department at any hardware (etc.) store. Drive the car a few miles right then. Bet you won't have any more trouble on that tankful.

And thanks for the reminder that our cars need that cup of alcohol just about now.

Its definitely the fuel labs fpr warmed it up with a heat gun and got fuel pressure. I called fuel labs before I tested it to see if there are any known problems when cold his exact words were there's nothing in the regulator that would be affected by temperature. I said what about the
Diaphragm? He said well only if its negative 200 deg maybe. Ugh lets see if they're willing to help me out. thanks for the help guys.

You're in New Mexico, correct? I'm not going to claim to know the weather there but where I've lived my whole life (southern Ontario, Canada) we routinely get temperatures below freezing in some cases for many consecutive days. I can assure you that it is not common at all to have guys with AFPR's unable to operate their cars in the winter. In fact, I've never heard of such a thing. Something else is afoot here. Just sayin'.

1kick said:

Its definitely the fuel labs fpr warmed it up with a heat gun and got fuel pressure. I called fuel labs before I tested it to see if there are any known problems when cold his exact words were there's nothing in the regulator that would be affected by temperature. I said what about the
Diaphragm? He said well only if its negative 200 deg maybe. Ugh lets see if they're willing to help me out. thanks for the help guys.

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try throwing a bottle of heet in your tank and see if the problem goes away.

It has been really cold where I live. It was 1 deg this morning at 7am. I will try alcohol tomorrow if I can get it to start in morning I will keep you posted thanks again

like waltah said, its gotta be some water in the fuel system that froze. there isn't anything in a FPR that will stop operating when it freezes.

1kick said:

It has been really cold where I live. It was 1 deg this morning at 7am. I will try alcohol tomorrow if I can get it to start in morning I will keep you posted thanks again

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The alcohol may not help you tomorrow because it has to get stirred in with your tank of gas and the (maybe) 1/4 cup of water in the bottom. So that'll take a mile or two of driving while the (thawed) water in the tank gets mixed with the alcohol and then the next time you try to start when it's 1 degree it should be okay.

GOOD LUCK with it!

This was a regular problem in Boston in the 60s. No alcohol in gas then so the first hard freeze -- we got whole weeks that year when it didn't get above freezing -- if you didn't already have the alcohol in the tank, your car was dead for a while. But everybody knew about that.

The dog that took us to the ER when we had the problem here had tried to jump a 5' picket fence. She got her neck stuck between pickets and I had to take pieces off the fence from the outside the yard while my wife held 'Siren' up from inside. The e-vet sewed her up and kept her a few days until she was out of the woods. Then back at home a few days later she jumped off the back of the sofa and tore the whole works loose, bleeding all over the place and of course it was almost bedtime and our vet wasn't home so it was over the mountains to Lynchburg again with my wife's hand in there trying to control the bleeding. Siren darn near died from blood loss that time. 'Bout the longest two hours of my life, that drive was.

Then at 2 AM the gas line froze and I'm in the parking lot taking apart the fuel rail ... empty even though we had a half tank of gas. But Siren did heal up and has matured into a fine dog who is never allowed to go out in the yard with the others.

Don't think it would hurt to go through & check for any moisture in the vacuum side while you're messing with things on the FPR. May be disconnecting & blowing some air through things just in-case you have any pooled moisture in places (like may be on the backside of the FPR diaphragm).

So I was able to get it started after about 20 minutes of heat gun and starting fluid. drove it 45 miles to work. Started right up 4 hours later for lunch picked up a bottle of heat put it in the tank drove another 45 miles back home. This morning the car would not start I'm at a loss about what is going on unless the gas I have in it is really bad but if it was I would assume it would run like crap it still shows no reading on the fpr

Can you get E85 there?

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Can you get E85 there?

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The only gas station that has E shows a rating of e50 + not straight E85

Well I was just thinking if you could get more alcohol in the fuel, it would be a test to see if it works in large quantities to cure your issue.
I double checked what I thought "HEET" does and how it works before I posted the next quote. It doesn't dissolve moisture so it "could" still freeze.
Here is the quote I read:
" “Heet” is sometimes used to refer to any fuel additive that removes water from your fuel system. These chemicals are called “fuel line dryers.” Water in your fuel can cause a lot of different problems, but the most common (and frustrating) is frozen fuel lines. When the weather outside is below freezing and you have water in your fuel system, the water can freeze and block your fuel lines, which will keep your car or truck from starting. Fuel line dryers break up the water in your fuel into small enough droplets that they combust in your engine." So the water could still be in there, just hasn't been run through the motor to get rid of it.

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Well I was just thinking if you could get more alcohol in the fuel, it would be a test to see if it works in large quantities to cure your issue.
I double checked what I thought "HEET" does and how it works before I posted the next quote. It doesn't dissolve moisture so it "could" still freeze.
Here is the quote I read:
" “Heet” is sometimes used to refer to any fuel additive that removes water from your fuel system. These chemicals are called “fuel line dryers.” Water in your fuel can cause a lot of different problems, but the most common (and frustrating) is frozen fuel lines. When the weather outside is below freezing and you have water in your fuel system, the water can freeze and block your fuel lines, which will keep your car or truck from starting. Fuel line dryers break up the water in your fuel into small enough droplets that they combust in your engine." So the water could still be in there, just hasn't been run through the motor to get rid of it.

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Good to know I'll take a gas can with me tomorrow and get some E i just can't figure out how I have water in my tank I've never had this problem before. None of my other vehicles have this problem and i fill up at the same station although this one is the only one that gets premium thanks again and I will keep you posted

Have you ever put a meter or test light on the fuel pump to see if its even getting voltage when its cold out and refusing to start?

Good question!
Can you hear your pump like I bet most of us can?

I can hear my pump when I turn the key but it does sound different. I can only assume it's spinning and not building pressure due to straight pass through at the fpr or not being able to suck up fuel it stays running for a lot longer than usual like 45 seconds or so . It normally primes in under 10 seconds

You're running EMS Series 1?

This doesn't make any sense. Your pump always prime the same length of time.

1kick said:

stays running for a lot longer than usual like 45 seconds or so . It normally primes in under 10 seconds

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What do you have the "options - Advanced Start" "fuel pump prime" set at? FYI - 10 seconds is sort of really long.

I had starting problems in the cold related to my temp sensor in the thermostat housing. (PO had pulled off the connector and bypassed with a paperclip; but Florida Car!) That would not explain a low fuel pressure condition, of course, if you're measuring that directly. Perhaps take the regulator off the car, and bring it indoors to thaw out and inspect if there is water in there somewhere that is interfering with proper operation.

Mello said:

You're running EMS Series 1?

This doesn't make any sense. Your pump always prime the same length of time.

What do you have the "options - Advanced Start" "fuel pump prime" set at? FYI - 10 seconds is sort of really long.

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Yes aem series 1 not sure what the advanced start is set at I may be able to check it at work later. I was able to get it started this morning after about 20 minutes of starting fluid heat gun and cranking although I did hear my rewire relay clicking while cranking and that's when it finally started. Never heard that before.

was the relay clicking on and off?
if it was, try swapping out the relay. if that doesn't work check the ground, if thats good, next time it won't start, check to see if its getting voltage at the (+) side of the coil (86 on the diagram).