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1G FWD - How to get oversteer

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tektic

10+ Year Contributor
96
7
Oct 10, 2010
ronkonkoma, New_York
I'm putting together a fwd car and want it to handle well without the classic under steer. So far Its lowed on sport line springs with evo 8 rims installed, and all the maintenance is done.

I have a gsx front sway bar but need options for the rear before that goes in.

Has anyone installed an adjustable panhard bar ? It seems after lowering the car the wheels moved to the passenger side a bit.

Has anyone successfully put a rear sway bar from another car on a fwd 1g?

I see in other forums there is discussion about clamping flat steel to the axel beam to increasing the rigidity. Is this the same as adding a rear sway bar? Has anyone experimented with this on an eclipse chassis?
 
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I can't help you with rear sway bar options, check whiteline maybe?

The axle beam reinforcing should be to prevent suspension deflection and geometry change in hard cornering, though I don't know how much it's needed. Is there a stock sway bar on the fwd? Seems like there was a ton of room to fit a sway bar of some magnitude under the last one I checked out, but like I said it's been a couple years.

A panhard bar is a good upgrade, and without recalling it visually, I'd say some tube with heim ends so it's adjustable for tension and centering would be nice.
 
The axle beam is technically the sway bar in this "twist beam" type suspension. So no stock sway bar. I subsequently found mention (on here) a fabled factory race team sway bar. Only 2 were known to exist though. This bar had nicer mounts than the ST counterpart. Either way the ST bar and the rallyart bar don't connect to the frame in any way like on bars part of IRSs. Both clamp to the the twist beam and then connect only to the lower part of the swing arm. I'm going to peruse the pick and pull next week and see if i find something that will fit before I spend the money on a aftermarket part. I have $1000 in to the whole car with the new stereo. So $185 on a sway bar seems like a last resort price. I will take some measurements on my panhard bar before I go and compare it to things like original mustang equipment. Maybe I can find an off the shelf adjustable bar for a different application instead of making one.
 
What are you trying to do with the car? FWD cars are set up to understeer from the factory to make them safer to drive. Now if your trying to autox the car, understeer isint really what you want and there are some things you can do to try and get the back end more playful.
 
Why not try to swap to an independent rear suspension? I know it would be some work and likely some cutting since the awd and fwd bodys on the 1g are different but if you can pick up parts cheap enough it might be the way to go, or what about 2g parts?

https://machv.com/products/rm-racing-sway-bar-full-set-1995-99
 
Defiantly not in the budget. Don't have the time or space either. I'm in the final stages of a mighty max dohc turbo swap that went completely out of control. Its taking up all the garage space currently. Besides, Awd cars under steer with power to the rear wheels. I'd be in the same boat after a shit ton of work.
 
Defiantly not in the budget. Don't have the time or space either. I'm in the final stages of a mighty max dohc turbo swap that went completely out of control. Its taking up all the garage space currently. Besides, Awd cars under steer with power to the rear wheels. I'd be in the same boat after a sh** ton of work.

I don't think @motomattx meant a full AWD conversion, just an IRS conversion to give you more tunability in the rear. All you'd need is the subframe, control arms, knuckles, outer axle stubs, brakes and rear struts from an awd. I don't recall if the fwd fuel tank is at the far rear like the awd, but it shouldn't be a crazy amount of work.

Edit: after looking up some pics it would be a bit of work. Lame of them to out the fuel tank so far forward. It'd really be easier to get an awd roller shell and just out you're stuff in that chassis.
 
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You can try playing around with tire pressure. Air the back ones up & let some air out of the fronts. Remember all FWD's will have understeer with power on while cornering because some of your traction is get used up during the acceleration. Same thing happen during braking.
 
If you read my original post, I asked 3 questions. So far all 3 are unanswered.

The title was a joke but I though the first post was very clear. I'm building a street car and I want neutral steering characteristics from the existing suspension. I want to know if anyone used bolt on parts, sway bar or otherwise to increase lateral torsion in the rear to reduce under steer.
 
Then we'll need some other fwd ppl to chime in.

Can you at least tell us (as previously asked) what you're trying to do with the car? Is it a spirited DD? Auto-x? Road course?

Only thing I can think is more camber, which idk if it's possible for a fwd rear to change. After looking at a few sway bars, best bet that's easy to grab might be using a front 1g sway bar and seeing if you can get that to fit. It's dimensions and shape look close, and they're available. You'll still have to fab some kind of end link no matter what you use.
 
It's to be a DD. A regular street car. How many was can I say it?

Rear camber is not adjustable on a fixed axle car...

Why are you offering advice on something you know absolutely nothing about?
 
It's to be a DD. A regular street car. How many was can I say it?

Rear camber is not adjustable on a fixed axle car...

Why are you offering advice on something you know absolutely nothing about?

Why are you being so disrespectful when someone is trying to help I think is a better question to ask.. A FWD will ALWAYS have these problems, there is no "solution" in place, for AWD's we can do the EVO8 rear diff and other mods to get a more balanced feeling car, but for FWD there is no simple fix no matter how angry you get..
 
:ohdamn:
I'm posting on the biggest DSM forum in the n/t section looking for real world experience with the d22a chassis in reference to rear track bar and sway bars. I had 3 questions.

1. Does anyone know about an adjustable panhard bar that might fit without being totally custom.

2. Has anyone successfully put a rear sway bar from another car on a fwd 1g?

3. Has anyone used flat steel clamped to the axel beam to increasing the rigidity?

So far I got adjust non adjustable rear camber, remove everything from gas tank back and weld in parts from another car and change tire pressure.

If no one has modified a fwd that's fine but every reply in this thread has been completely off topic. I'm not angry. I just don't see the point of changing the subject. I though I asked pretty straight toward questions.
 
Hey listen my friend, none of us are chassis experts here, your seeking ADVICE and might I add for free, we are offering our suggestions as in the path that we would pursue if we were looking to solve the problem that you have, its that simple, take it or don't that's up to you, its just advice.
 
Second time in two weeks we've had the same attitude come into the forums...

I offered opinions just like @ChessmoDSM explained, on what I would try we're it my car with the same goal, and if you don't like them that's fine. However, just cuz you're not getting spoon-fed the exact answer or solution you want, for a chassis that not alot of ppl try and setup to handle as you want it, doesn't mean you have to get snippy.

Also, you never once mentioned, until your second to last post, what you're doing with the car driving-wise, so please don't take an attitude when we're trying to decipher your goals so we can help you better.

HOPEFULLY someone who's done something will chime in to help. Aside from the ST sway bar that isn't available, I see no other "bolt on" options, but the front 1g sway bar looks extremely close to the ST's design, which I why I recommended it as a possibly cheap option. You also can definitely put camber into a solid axle beam, it's just not going to be a $15 trip to the junk yard for you to do it.

Things you certainly can do to help some of your situation: Sticky tires, adjustable shocks/struts to go with your sportline springs. GL.
 
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@tektik I know you've done your homework on antiroll bars. You also know that antiroll bars are to apply some opposing roll resistance to opposite sides of the suspension on independent suspensions. And I know you know that a antiroll bar is not applicable to solid axle suspension. You should to take you attitude & cram it in the toilet & start using the words thank you more frequently.
 
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I know you've done your homework on antiroll bars. You also know that antiroll bars are to apply some opposing roll resistance to opposite sides of the suspension on independent suspensions. And I know you know that a antiroll bar is not applicable to solid axle suspension. You should to take you attitude & cram it in the toilet & start using the words thank you more frequently.

In this case, a sway bar should reduce body roll and effectively increase spring rate while cornering without adversely affecting ride quality or height. The added benefit is keeping the rear end more planted and reducing hard corner understeer, the negative being a higher probability of lift off and hard break oversteer. may just end up 3 wheeling if you drive it hard enough without spinning out.

It's too a lesser degree than say, a truck, due to center of gravity and already stiffer suspension, but you get what I'm saying.
 
Lol. You guys are too funny.

Three more posts and still no one with insight on any of the questions I asked. If anyone has info on rear swabar or track bar that fits Please step forward. Thanks guys.

And I know you know that a antiroll bar is not applicable to solid axle suspension.

That's just blatantly untrue.
1G FWD! Suspension Techniques Rear Sway Bar Install
sway bars on a 1g fwd.

@ThunderChild
There's no reason to add static camber to a non independent suspension. I'm not joining the camber gang. I don't want less of a contact patch.
 
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I made a sway bar today from scrap I found in the garbage. It works pretty well for the little bit of testing I did. Obviously a big change but will report back when I put some more miles on the car.

this was so simple I wish I tried something like it sooner. Using an old metal bed frame, I cut a 1” piece of angle down to 36” and 1.5” angle to 38”. I centered them and clamped them together. Then drilled two holes in either end. Transcribed the marks on the rear twist beam and also cut holes. I bolted it all together and there is now significantly more rigidity.

I was originally planning on using holes on both sides longer bolts and sleeves, but this seems to be pretty effective as it is.

much more neutral feeling while driving. Just like an upgraded rear sway bar is supposed to feel. Bed frames are made out of spring steel. It’s tough to drill through but bolting it down at the ends still allows twisting and flex in the middle.

this design is removable and adjustable and pretty much free. It was definitely worth the 2 hours used to put it together and install it.
 

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I made a sway bar today from scrap I found in the garbage. It works pretty well for the little bit of testing I did. Obviously a big change but will report back when I put some more miles on the car.

this was so simple I wish I tried something like it sooner. Using an old metal bed frame, I cut a 1” piece of angle down to 36” and 1.5” angle to 38”. I centered them and clamped them together. Then drilled two holes in either end. Transcribed the marks on the rear twist beam and also cut holes. I bolted it all together and there is now significantly more rigidity.

I was originally planning on using holes on both sides longer bolts and sleeves, but this seems to be pretty effective as it is.

much more neutral feeling while driving. Just like an upgraded rear sway bar is supposed to feel. Bed frames are made out of spring steel. It’s tough to drill through but bolting it down at the ends still allows twisting and flex in the middle.

this design is removable and adjustable and pretty much free. It was definitely worth the 2 hours used to put it together and install it.
I would be very concerned about the crack and subsequent incomplete weld on the axle beam
 
I remember RRE reinforced the rear axle beams, but believe they welded, not clamped them. They had videos of the cars jumping in parking lots to show the beams could take the abuse. They also built some very competitive 1g fwd road race cars. They've removed a lot of their 1g parts, but if you call them, they might be willing to give some advice.
 
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