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Cam timing.

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Merc4g63

Probationary Member
8
0
Sep 28, 2011
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
Went to set timing on my 6 bolt with s3 cams and the oversized English racing oil pump pulley. The timing marks just won’t line up! I have HKS adjustable cam gears and know I need to adjust 2 degrees for the oil pump pulley. What am I missing?
 

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Then I don't see how the oil pump sprocket should be throwing you off on timing, as phasing it (and thus the balance shaft) is no longer necessary.

To me it looks as though you're a tooth retarded on your crank timing is all.
 
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Then I don't see how the oil pump sprocket should be throwing you off on timing, as phasing it (and thus the balance shaft) is no longer necessary.

To me it looks as though you're a tooth retarded on your crank timing is all.
So I wasn’t worried to much about the oil pump gear, it just that gear is the bigger one with I think 1 tooth more so I wasn’t sure that would have been throwing me off or not.

so after playing with it I got it with what it look like a 1/2 tooth off? I’m still playing with it but what’s your thought on this? Is this something I can workout in timing the car? Or do you think it’s still a tooth off?
 
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Head and block both been decked alot?
 
That plays with the pointer on the crank to a small amount. Lowering the head will make it not quite point at the TDC mark. Not much, but a little.
If you move the belt one notch, I bet it points to the other side of the TDC pointer so if that IS TRUE, then what you have is as close as the pointer will get to TDC. Have you tried moving the crank 1 tooth to see where it lines up? As @ThunderChild said, the oil pump gear should not affect the TDC pointer. You will need to adjust the cams 2* at the cams.
 
That plays with the pointer on the crank to a small amount. Lowering the head will make it not quite point at the TDC mark. Not much, but a little.
If you move the belt one notch, I bet it points to the other side of the TDC pointer so if that IS TRUE, then what you have is as close as the pointer will get to TDC. Have you tried moving the crank 1 tooth to see where it lines up? As @ThunderChild said, the oil pump gear should not affect the TDC pointer. You will need to adjust the cams 2* at the cams.
Yes that correct, every time I move it a tooth it comes close but not dead on. I was over thinking that gear cause I thought that was throwing me off.
So next question is, I getting ready to degree the cams, so when I do the cams to the card spec do I do the 2* before or after I start to degre the cams?
 
Nothing looks right to me. Crank is always TDC and cams are RELATIVE to the crank. Both your cams are above the parting line. That should never happen. They are symmetrically times so if anything at TDC one mark would be up and one would be down if they are "out of time" a few degrees due to the oil pump gear. In my opinion both cams are wrong. Exhaust needs to go clockwise one and intake CCW one. Line up crank also. At that point when crank is at TDC due to the oil pump gear you will have intake "up" 2 degrees and exhaust "down" 2 degrees. They won't point at each other.

This is assuming that oil pump sprocket is a little bigger. Honestly I've not seen that part before. Been living in a cave I suppose. If it's smaller then the opposite is true. Intake will be down and exhaust will be up.
 
Nothing looks right to me. Crank is always TDC and cams are RELATIVE to the crank. Both your cams are above the parting line. That should never happen. They are symmetrically times so if anything at TDC one mark would be up and one would be down if they are "out of time" a few degrees due to the oil pump gear. In my opinion both cams are wrong. Exhaust needs to go clockwise one and intake CCW one. Line up crank also. At that point when crank is at TDC due to the oil pump gear you will have intake "up" 2 degrees and exhaust "down" 2 degrees. They won't point at each other.

This is assuming that oil pump sprocket is a little bigger. Honestly I've not seen that part before. Been living in a cave I suppose. If it's smaller then the opposite is true. Intake will be down and exhaust will be up.
Ok, that’s how I was getting it closer was moving the cams a tooth. I do it again and see what happens next! Thank you
 
Thanks Paul. I hadn't noticed the cams being above the straight line of the head, to line up.
Nice catch!!!
 
Agree with Paul, the second set of pics shows your cams are not aligned correctly, and due to the oil pump sprocket taking up belt space and the decking, you will need to set it so the cam marks are just slightly ccw (or the crank) of the marks, and then dial in the cams through the adjustable gears.
 
Ok, that’s how I was getting it closer was moving the cams a tooth. I do it again and see what happens next! Thank you
This is how I do this and how I explain it. The crank goes to TDC. Cams (and everything else) is relative to that. You can say crank is off or cams are off...semantics. My opinion is the crank is the one that matters. Everything else is measured from that. So set your crank and then line everything else up.
 
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