Drifting???

Domestic Import said:

What years is the dsm the same as the EVO3 as in the engine, suspension, diffs, trannys, crankwalk faults? I want an evo 3 but they are too expensive. What year should I get and what mods/parts should be done to make it work/feel like the evo 3? Are the engines different in the dsm from 1g to 2g and years? they should be the same right? I know that the evo3 has a bigger turbo. I want about 310hp for racing/drifting/daily driver.

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In terms of suspension, a 1g is likely closer to the McPherson setup on a early Evo. The 2g suspension is based on the 94+ galant VR-4: double wishbone front and rear--a superior on-road suspension design to both the 1g DSM and the early Evo. Neither generation DSM, or any generation Evo makes a good drift car. The torque splits on these cars are just not set up for it, and everything in the drivetrain is too fragile. If you're into road racing though, 2g DSM is the way to go.

In terms of drivetrain, the 2g DSM shares more with the Evo3, while the 1g DSM shares a lot with the late 80s Galant VR-4, the Evo's older brother. On a 2g DSM, the castings of the block and head are the same as an Evo3. They share many of the same internals, including the same crank and pistons IIRC. 2G DSM and Evo3 share the same intake cam, and the EVO3 has a larger duration exhaust cam to spool the larger 16g--same exhaust cam as the late built 7bolt 1g DSMs. The 2g DSM engine came with an intake, and exhaust system designed around the quick spooling t-25 turbo, whereas the EVO3 is a midrange monster with the 16g. To this end, the intake plenum on the 2g is bigger than a Evo3, allowing for better low-rpm response, whereas the Evo3s intake is turned for flow better at the mid-range. further, the Evo3 uses a 60mm throttle body where the 2g DSM is 54mm. Similarly, on the exhaust side, the Evo3 has a 60mm collector opening where it mates with the turbo, larger than the 54mm opening on the 2g DSM exhaust manifold. The Evo3 exhaust manifold flows slightly more, sacrificing some spool for better flow to the larger turbo.

Evo3 has a better transmission than a 2g DSM. It has a taller first gear, stronger internals, a shorter final drive, and some came with a front limited slip differential, which was never available on a DSM. Evo internals can be swapped into a DSM tranmisson, you could can use the whole box in a DSM, but both are rare these days. DSMs do have viscous limited slip rear-ends as an option, similar to the unit used on the galant vr-4, but inferior to the clutch LSD in an evo3. Evo8 LSD internals can be swapped into a LSD DSM rear end.

Just about everything important on an Evo3, from engine to transmission to rear end, will bolt onto a 2g DSM with little or no modification. Similarly, everything that bolts onto a Evo3 engine can be used on a 2g DSM.

edit: while the label has stuck, crankwalk isn't much of a worry these days. the newest 2g is 21 years old--all those defective engines have long since walked.

Wow, that was cool

shinzon said:

In terms of suspension, a 1g is likely closer to the McPherson setup on a early Evo. The 2g suspension is based on the 94+ galant VR-4: double wishbone front and rear--a superior on-road suspension design to both the 1g DSM and the early Evo. Neither generation DSM, or any generation Evo makes a good drift car. The torque splits on these cars are just not set up for it, and everything in the drivetrain is too fragile. If you're into road racing though, 2g DSM is the way to go.

In terms of drivetrain, the 2g DSM shares more with the Evo3, while the 1g DSM shares a lot with the late 80s Galant VR-4, the Evo's older brother. On a 2g DSM, the castings of the block and head are the same as an Evo3. They share many of the same internals, including the same crank and pistons IIRC. 2G DSM and Evo3 share the same intake cam, and the EVO3 has a larger duration exhaust cam to spool the larger 16g--same exhaust cam as the late built 7bolt 1g DSMs. The 2g DSM engine came with an intake, and exhaust system designed around the quick spooling t-25 turbo, whereas the EVO3 is a midrange monster with the 16g. To this end, the intake plenum on the 2g is bigger than a Evo3, allowing for better low-rpm response, whereas the Evo3s intake is turned for flow better at the mid-range. further, the Evo3 uses a 60mm throttle body where the 2g DSM is 54mm. Similarly, on the exhaust side, the Evo3 has a 60mm collector opening where it mates with the turbo, larger than the 54mm opening on the 2g DSM exhaust manifold. The Evo3 exhaust manifold flows slightly more, sacrificing some spool for better flow to the larger turbo.

Evo3 has a better transmission than a 2g DSM. It has a taller first gear, stronger internals, a shorter final drive, and some came with a front limited slip differential, which was never available on a DSM. Evo internals can be swapped into a DSM tranmisson, you could can use the whole box in a DSM, but both are rare these days. DSMs do have viscous limited slip rear-ends as an option, similar to the unit used on the galant vr-4, but inferior to the clutch LSD in an evo3. Evo8 LSD internals can be swapped into a LSD DSM rear end.

Just about everything important on an Evo3, from engine to transmission to rear end, will bolt onto a 2g DSM with little or no modification. Similarly, everything that bolts onto a Evo3 engine can be used on a 2g DSM.

edit: while the label has stuck, crankwalk isn't much of a worry these days. the newest 2g is 21 years old--all those defective engines have long since walked.

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Good write up. Just a little corrections. EVO 3 and 5 speed 1G turbo share the same intake cam. And EVO 3 pistons are different from 2G DSM, they are problematic, well known as its ring-land easily gets broken. It almost got a recall. Many EVO 3 owners used to swap the pistons with EVO 2's or EVO 4+.

DSMPT said:

Good write up. Just a little corrections. EVO 3 and 5 speed 1G turbo share the same intake cam. And EVO 3 pistons are different from 2G DSM, they are problematic, well known as its ring-land easily gets broken. It almost got a recall. Many EVO 3 owners used to swap the pistons with EVO 2's or EVO 4+.

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Ah, thank you for the corrections; I had completely forgotten about the Evo3 piston issue. I believe the Evo3 had slightly higher compression, and the Evo4 with the sirius2 engine returned to the previous ratio, and they stuck with it (9.0:1 vs 8.8:1). 1G DSMs were also 9.0:1, and the galant vr-4 was 7.8:1. Now that you mention it, if I remember correctly the 2g intake cam is "superior" to the 1g and Evo3 cams, and the "ideal" factory cam setup would be 2g intake and Evo3/94DSM exhaust.

shinzon said:

Ah, thank you for the corrections; I had completely forgotten about the Evo3 piston issue. I believe the Evo3 had slightly higher compression, and the Evo4 with the sirius2 engine returned to the previous ratio, and they stuck with it (9.0:1 vs 8.8:1). 1G DSMs were also 9.0:1, and the galant vr-4 was 7.8:1. Now that you mention it, if I remember correctly the 2g intake cam is "superior" to the 1g and Evo3 cams, and the "ideal" factory cam setup would be 2g intake and Evo3/94DSM exhaust.

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I am not so sure about the real spec of 2g cams. I can only say is the stock intake cam between the mid/late JDM Galant VR4/Manual 1G turbo DSM/EVO 3 is the same. And the stock Galant AMG cams are more aggressive.

TK's9d2TSi said:

Drifting???

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You "can" do with the RWD trans mod or with a tarmac center diff. I saw some early EVO guys doing that but it's just having fun thingy. it never be better than real RWD cars if focusing to drifting. If more serious, it would need the real RWD conversion, I guess.

Evo 2s and 3s do indeed have the same cams as 1G DSMs - MD128973 and MD128974. The Evo 1 had milder cams that also appeared in 95-96 DSMs but to be honest, they're all puny and there isn't much use differentiating stock cams. You'll never get a DSM to feel like an Evo because of the weight - my Evo 1 is 2560 pounds with minimal weight reduction. AWD DSMs are 3000+ and you can't hide it. The short gearing is the other big difference but it can be swapped. Suspension-wise, almost nothing carries over from DSM to Evo. Maybe a tie rod, the front brake calipers and some minor stuff, but the general architecture is totally different. The Evo is based on same chassis as the Mirage, it's an econobox special.

To drift a DSM, well, the Cusco Tarmac is very, very rare. It eliminates the locking mechanism from the center differential and gives it a rear bias, so it will definitely act like a RWD car. You might get a hint of AWD sometimes, but it will unquestionably be an open diff. The other way to run RWD is to lock the center diff and pull the front axles, but honestly it's pretty hack. The stock rear diff is not up to the task of taking that kind of abuse; I've seen RWD-converted Evo 123s blow the plated diff doing it, too. The cover certainly cracks easily.

For an idea of how a Tarmac-equipped Evo needs to be driven, the first two white Evos in this video have one (even though they are Evo 456, the idea is still the same).