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ECMlink Slow evolution of my GVR4

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mk2davis

Proven Member
35
1
Dec 7, 2018
NEWBURY PARK, California
I've lurked around this sight for a while, and have asked some smart and some no-so smart questions. I finally got things sorted with ECMLink and my LC2, so I'm ready to start setting baselines and then tune! Below is the idle log after a drive, please let me know what you think. But First,
1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
No
Boost leak tested 5psi above your max boost with no leaks?
Yes, 20 pounds

2). Verified mechanical timing?
Yes

3). Verified base timing?
Yes

4). Ignition system
Stock
Wire brand and Age: Magnacore/1 year
Spark Plug brand, type and Gap: NGK-BPR6ES/.028

5). Motor health (Compression Test)
unknown

6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments?
Idle Switch: Yes
Throttle Cable: Yes
TPS: Yes
BISS: Yes

7). Compression ratio
stock. I think for GVR4 its a lowly 7.8:1

8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
No

9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
No

10). Electrical system
Car off (not running): 12.4 volts
Car running: 13.9 volts

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
Base Fuel Pressure: 43.5 Running a 2G FPR
Injector Size (cc/min): 450

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
Sensor Brand: LC2
Calibration Date: Yesterday

13). Type of fuel
Type: 91
Percent of Ethanol: unk

14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?
Yes
 

Attachments

  • idle.elg
    26.8 KB · Views: 74
Upgrade your injectors now!
Stock injectors will not support any mods. EVO 560cc is a minimum. If you intend to mod the engine, add a bigger turbo or go E85 you will need bigger than that.
If you haven't already upgrade your fuel pump to support the bigger injectors as well.
 
I fully intend to, but while I'm learning Link, I'd like a critique of this idle log, then I'll get a cruise log, then WOT.

Then I'll know what I'm aiming for and a bit about how to get there when dialing in the larger injectors. This helps me separate potential issues.
 
I said upgrade your injectors is because at 20psi you are going to be over 100% duty on the injectors and leaning out. Just trying to save you a head gasket. Also at 20psi the stock head bolts will stretch. Another way blow the head gasket.
Log looks fine (not an expert). Tweak your maf comp at 0 and 50hz to zero your fuel trim and get your airflow per rev to .25. I also try to get my afr est as close as I can to the real wb value. I figure if the ecu estimate is the same as reality, that's a good thing.
 
I said upgrade your injectors is because at 20psi you are going to be over 100% duty on the injectors and leaning out. Just trying to save you a head gasket. Also at 20psi the stock head bolts will stretch.
He said that he performed a boost leak test at 20 psi, which is 5 psi higher than his boost is currently set. Some quick maths say that he's running 15 psi of boost. That said, 450cc is very small for a 16g. I maxed out my 560cc injectors somewhere around 17-18 psi of boost and had to upgrade again.
 
I typically cruise at 10psi, but occasionally 15. Randman was correct, BLT was good to 20, but I don't see those numbers.

I have my eyes on some 550s, but before they go in I'd love someone to give me feedback without too many variables, more so for my learning. Once I get a relative baseline, I'll put in 550-750s. I have an extra long block that needs to be gone through, but the plan is to build that as a 8.5:1 2.3l stroker. For that, I'll need 1000 injectors and some knowledge.

Lumpy, I do have ARP head studs, I thought I mentioned that in the profile. I'll check that out. But yes, not 20 pounds.

Randman, you are right. I just need to learn.
 
I have my eyes on some 550s, but before they go in I'd love someone to give me feedback without too many variables, more so for my learning. Once I get a relative baseline, I'll put in 550-750s. I have an extra long block that needs to be gone through, but the plan is to build that as a 8.5:1 2.3l stroker. For that, I'll need 1000 injectors and some knowledge.

Back when EV-1s were the only players in the game, going too big was a big problem. These days with EV-14s, the only problem is potentially having to buy injectors twice because you outgrew the first set. You can go almost as large as you want and have a like-stock idle. I've got 950cc injectors in mine just in case I feel like doing E85 on my 16g later, but going off of the publicly available datasheets I could have probably gone up to 1600cc and not had any idle problems. But with 1997cc displacement and a 16g, the 950cc set will be plenty for me. Unless you need a separate set of injectors for each engine, you might as well go straight to the 1000cc set that you'll eventually need for your stroker and save yourself some money when the time comes to build that engine. But I definitely agree that it's best to diagnose everything that you can now before changing parts and adding more variables.

Sorry for the off-topicness. Back to your original question about the log.
 
Rand, I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate your comments. You are probably right, but my build will be slow, and tuning is totally new to me. I look forward to learning.

Lumpy, I appreciate the concern. Im just not as advanced as you thought!
 
Here's my cruise log. My STFT and LTFT Lo and Mid seem to be where they are supposed to be, so I'm happy with that. If you see something I don't, please let me know. Later tonight or tomorrow I may try and get some WOT pulls in 3rd from 3k-redline. My plan is to start targeting 10psi with AFRs around 11:1, from what I've read this should be relatively safe. I've got the stock boost gauge set up to be my knock indicator, I look forward to this little feature.
 

Attachments

  • cruise log.elg
    349.6 KB · Views: 71
I did a 3rd gear pull. It's in the mid 90s, and not quite 10 pounds of boost. I'm using a 2g timing map, but still getting a little knock with conservative boost. I'm interested in your feedback.
 

Attachments

  • full pull.elg
    12.4 KB · Views: 72
Here's my cruise log. My STFT and LTFT Lo and Mid seem to be where they are supposed to be, so I'm happy with that. If you see something I don't, please let me know. Later tonight or tomorrow I may try and get some WOT pulls in 3rd from 3k-redline. My plan is to start targeting 10psi with AFRs around 11:1, from what I've read this should be relatively safe. I've got the stock boost gauge set up to be my knock indicator, I look forward to this little feature.

Looks good. 40 - 50 seconds in the log is what you want everywhere in cruise. There is virtually no Short Term Fuel Trim happening, and the real and estimated AFR match. In sections where you see the fuel trim away from zero and the real and estimated AFR don't match, look at your Mass Air Frequency, then tweak the MAF comp at that frequency until the fuel trim is near zero. The real and estimated AFR will then match.
 
I did a 3rd gear pull. It's in the mid 90s, and not quite 10 pounds of boost. I'm using a 2g timing map, but still getting a little knock with conservative boost. I'm interested in your feedback.

1G timing is pretty aggressive from the factory. What octane fuel are you running? I also noticed right where you get knock the real AFR leans off a little compared to the estimated. Adjust the maf comp at that freq (about 1300hz) a bit to richen it up to match. I'd fix up the AFR mismatch, then if necessary pull a little timing. Another thought is do you have a stock intercooler? The factory one is pretty ordinary.
 
This is awesome help, thank you. So it sounds like I have the following things on my list:
Adjust MAFComp at related freqs so real and estimated AFR's match.
Upload 2G timing map (I thought I did this, but I'll double check)
Double check MAF at 1300hz

To answer your questions,I'm in CA so 91 is the best that's readily available. If I can't dial this knock out by the end of the tank, I think I might get some 100 oct and see if it's real. Regarding IC, I have an aftermarket SMIC that's maybe 50% bigger than stock iirc? Still small. And you can see my IAT wasn't the 140F (60C) I saw later in the day, I'm sure the 48C IAT didn't help.

Thanks for the guidance. I'll look into this and at least get a cruise log posted later.
 
I think I went the wrong way with MAFComp, and I hate to blindly trust the MAFComp Adj....

Hypothetically, if I raise the MAFComp at say 500hz 10%, then the ECU "sees" 10% more air and adds fuel to compensate? So adjusting MAFComp in a positive (or less negative) direction makes things richer at that point? Or is my rationale backwards?

Edit: I am running with 2G timing tables, as I've read that 1G is really aggressive. I haven't dialed in MAF where I want it quite yet, so I haven't addressed knock in WOT via timing yet.
 
Hypothetically, if I raise the MAFComp at say 500hz 10%, then the ECU "sees" 10% more air and adds fuel to compensate?

Yup, and mafComp changes can be done on the fly. If you can get someone riding shotgun who understands the concept, you can do closed loop by getting out on the freeway and have them adjust it until your short term fuel trims are zero. You can cover a decent amount of the freq range with different gears and a little speed variation. Adjusting your open loop thresholds will keep the car in closed loop more, giving you more of the maf freq range to zero out. Open loop stuff I always tweak after I've looked at the log.

On the intercooler front I'm just going to start spending your money. something like this
https://www.treadstoneperformance.com/tr8-intercooler--500hp/p104367
should fit in your bar. You'd have to check as I think you have more metal than what's behind the J spec bar. At the moment it's total overkill and will add lag while the turbo fills it.
 
Sounds like a plan. I'll try and get a cruise log tomorrow. I saw a video suggesting I can use wbfactor as a quick guideline for how much to raise mafcomp, I'll verify this tomorrow. I also saw how to change CL requirements, so some of us noobs really do watch the videos!

Since your spending my money anyways, I'm more than happy to accept donations to the cause.

I don't know how you knew I was looking at intercoolers.... First at starion options, but there are many that will fit the bill. My ultimate goal is 400hp, so nothing too crazy, but it will require more than I have. I recently bought an eBay windshield washer system.... I've wanted 16 bucks on more frivolous things before, but I'm interested in seeing the effects on iat purely for scientific reasons. If it works, and I'm not 100% convinced it will, I can use it on any ic. I appreciate your feedback, lumpy. It is comforting to know that I am on the right track.
 
Since your spending my money anyways, I'm more than happy to accept donations to the cause.
I'd love to help, but I've got another 4.5k (aud) to spend to go with the 6.5k I've already dropped on parts to get a few more bits then get my 2.2 stroker built and dyno'ed. Then I have to buy a HX35 and manifold to go with it. I must be nuts. LOL
 
I'm kinda a one man band over here, so I have to review logs after the fact. I think my 100-200hz needs some work, but 300-450 seems solid. I need to widen my OL thresholds a little bit more to get higher hz numbers, but here's what I got so far.

After this log, I went up 8% at 100hz and 1% at 150hz to smooth out that spike.
 

Attachments

  • log.2020.05.07-03.elg
    306.8 KB · Views: 66
Last edited:
So I think my cruise log is fairly dialed in. Tomorrow I'll try and get some WOT logs for you all to look at.
 

Attachments

  • log.2020.05.08-02.elg
    509.3 KB · Views: 73
I think I got my 200 and 400hz figured out.
My next question is about WOT. My load factor is only 1.4, but I'm still getting knock. I've attached two logs for this, the first is the only true WOT, but shows some deviation between AFR Est and LC1WB. I fixed this on the second pull, but I didn't stay in it for some odd reason.

It's not a lot of knock, but at that load factor, I'm surprised. My inclination is to take 1 degree out at LoadFactor 1.4-1.8 from 3500-7500, then try again? I have some 550 injectors at RC for cleaning, and while I'm waiting for those I'd like to get knock eliminated up to 15psi.
 

Attachments

  • 3rd let up.elg
    12.8 KB · Views: 84
  • 3rd wot pull.elg
    12.9 KB · Views: 62
  • 200hz.elg
    13.4 KB · Views: 67
  • 400hz.elg
    15.3 KB · Views: 74
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