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2G prothane suspension and handling questions

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jpmxrider489

10+ Year Contributor
2,410
146
Apr 4, 2010
pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
I have some questions about some suspension stuff. I am currently running koni yellows. I have tein springs in the front and eibach in the back. I have corrected camber and toe. I also have upgraded the rear sway bar. I have been doing some pulls with my holset setup and getting into the higher speeds. Currently 30psi and around 110mph. I feel like the car is sliding or floating at that speed. I dont have any spoiler on the car. Not sure when the aero related stuff matters. I plan on doing drag and some autox. I also dont want to lose street ability. My tires are new. Falken azenis.

I have got in the group buy for the volk arms. I purchased the front lca, rear toe and trailing arms. Would AWD rear lower control arms fit on a fwd subframe? I installed prothane bushings in the rear except for the trailing arm and toe arm. I didnt replace them because of the volk arms I purchased. I did replace the ones on the knuckle and upper control arm. With all the adjustments the volk arms offer in the rear, would I still need the washers to adjust camber? Should I replace the shock bushing in the koni for the rear?

For the fronts. I have the camber kit that goes in the upper inner control arm bushings. I forget who makes it. Can I replace the bushings in that camber kit with the prothanes? Do I still need the camber kit with the adjustment in the volks for the front lca? Are there bushings in the prothane total kit for the front compression arm?

I have been happy with my koni and lowering spring setup for years. I am now wondering if I should or need to upgrade to feal coilovers? Also off topic, is there bushings from the prothane kit that will work for the rad support. The bar the goes from north to south on the rad to subframe. Should I upgrade the front swaybar as well?

Sorry if this post was clutered. If you need clarification, let me know.
 
The only arms that are not swapped able are the rear toe arms, every other arm is swapable.

As for the wing. I believe i read about its effective around 60mph ish but it was a bloody long time ago i read that and i forget if it was here or fb. It was designed to help rear stability with the high rise wing. Talon wings i dont remember reading up on.

The 3g offers a poly bush for the crossmember. I dont know the part number on hand but their website should help advise that, one of the 3G guys mentions it and also owned a 2G and said it worked.

I personally would sdvise aginst the front arb upgrade as it will make the rear wonder more then the front.
Have you confirmed the chassis has no weak points or cracks? Perhaps camber or tor is different per side. Adding a strut brace will help the top side abit and maybe help some of the flex going on if its chassis flex being felt
 
Bull fab makes a north , south bar. Also dont forget about the subframe mount bushing since they are rubber also, which Volk also makes.
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Bull fab makes a north , south bar. Also dont forget about the subframe mount bushing since they are rubber also, which Volk also makes.
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
This still leaves the old bushes in the frame
 
A few questions:
Why are you running different lowering springs?
What kind of Eibach springs are you running?
What setting are the koni shocks on?
 
The only arms that are not swapped able are the rear toe arms, every other arm is swapable.

As for the wing. I believe i read about its effective around 60mph ish.

The 3g offers a poly bush for the crossmember.

I personally would sdvise aginst the front arb upgrade as it will make the rear wonder more then the front.
Have you confirmed the chassis has no weak points or cracks? Perhaps camber or tor is different per side. Adding a strut brace will help the top side abit and maybe help some of the flex going on if its chassis flex being felt

I have read about the toe arms being different. What I dont know is are there year to year changes with the rear lca. The ones on the car have endlinks in them. When looking at the parts store, looks like it doesnt have the option for the endlinks. I want to get volks rear lca but he is out of stock with the endlink option. When I pressed in the inner lca bushing, it was fairly difficult since the arm isnt solid metal. The bushing goes through a ring.

I also read a post about the high rise wing being efficient. Forget where I saw it at. Saw it when looking at aero related stuff and andrews name kept coming up in the posts.

I found the bushing for the 3g. Energy makes it but only comes in the v6 motor mount kit. The bushing part is 2476. Customer support said it is a special order thing and get back to me with pricing. Prothane also has it in their kit 13-507 bushing number 68127. I havent contacted them yet.

I am highly uneducated in the handling/suspension related stuff. But the car is solid. Garage kept and no rust. The only thing wrong in the bushing related area is the front subframe. I had it out a few years back and wanted to replace the bushings. I think I might of made a old thread about my issue then. But I didnt have a press at the time so I was unable to replace them. I gave up and put the subframe back in the car as is. Im just waiting on you to make that front subframe LOL. One of the bolts just turns when tighted and I believe its accessed under the carpet or something. No cracks but I cant testify for weakness. I should have a strut brace laying around somewhere Ill throw on the rear. It came with the car back in 2008 when I got it.

You would advise against what on the front? Should I replace the rear shock bushings? Also need to find out if my front upper inner bushings will work with my camber kit.

Bull fab makes a north , south bar. Also dont forget about the subframe mount bushing since they are rubber also, which Volk also makes.
This still leaves the old bushes in the frame

I have thought about buying that bar for the tow hook option. I havent seen many 2g pictures of it installed though. Plus I am FWD. I dont think anyone confirmed fitment on FWD. That does look like a solid piece. Wish more people made stuff like that. I read ec17pse thread about making tow hooks. I was thinking about going that route.
 
A few questions:
Why are you running different lowering springs?
What kind of Eibach springs are you running?
What setting are the koni shocks on?

I have the height lowest the shock will let me I believe. The springs were on the car when I bought it. They were just on stock shocks. I ran that as is up till I bought the yellows. The konis are not that old. I have the rebound set tighter. I forget the exact setting. But if out of a 0-10 scale, I have them on 7. I dont know the exact model for the Eibach spring.
 
I have read about the toe arms being different. What I dont know is are there year to year changes with the rear lca. The ones on the car have endlinks in them. When looking at the parts store, looks like it doesnt have the option for the endlinks. I want to get volks rear lca but he is out of stock with the endlink option. When I pressed in the inner lca bushing, it was fairly difficult since the arm isnt solid metal. The bushing goes through a ring. The difference is not years is models, the RS never had them so they got basic arms and no reinforcement in the arm, i have a set of those on my parts/mock up chassis,
Just get any that are gst or gsx and it will have the droplink on it or the connection point ready to mount.


I also read a post about the high rise wing being efficient. Forget where I saw it at. Saw it when looking at aero related stuff and andrews name kept coming up in the posts.

I found the bushing for the 3g. Energy makes it but only comes in the v6 motor mount kit. The bushing part is 2476. Customer support said it is a special order thing and get back to me with pricing. Prothane also has it in their kit 13-507 bushing number 68127. I havent contacted them yet. I will see if i can find the busbing post and link you it to see. Or find the part number, it basically just removes the fsctory crappy rubber for poly and i guess helps with the roll stops and play in that area.

I am highly uneducated in the handling/suspension related stuff. But the car is solid. Garage kept and no rust. The only thing wrong in the bushing related area is the front subframe. I had it out a few years back and wanted to replace the bushings. I think I might of made a old thread about my issue then. But I didnt have a press at the time so I was unable to replace them. I gave up and put the subframe back in the car as is. Im just waiting on you to make that front subframe LOL. One of the bolts just turns when tighted and I believe its accessed under the carpet or something. No cracks but I cant testify for weakness. I should have a strut brace laying around somewhere Ill throw on the rear. It came with the car back in 2008 when I got it. Im not sure on locations of the studs and inside locations. I nearly had one spin on me but i caught it and stopped it from doing so, they rust up so easily it does happen. Now i undo most bolt and nuts underneath once a year and re grease them all.
The subframe is what im trying to make next for my actual trial frame and testing it out.


You would advise against what on the front? Should I replace the rear shock bushings? Also need to find out if my front upper inner bushings will work with my camber kit. ARB! Which is anti roll bar. I dont think you will benefit from a thicker front unit personally.
Replace all rear bushes you can it will help make the suspension more compliant and predictable.

The front upper bush i dont think works with the camber kit as its a different setup on the inner mount. Im almost sure you cant. Its an ingals kit or spc? I forget which one makes that camber unit now (perhaps both do)





I have thought about buying that bar for the tow hook option. I havent seen many 2g pictures of it installed though. Plus I am FWD. I dont think anyone confirmed fitment on FWD. That does look like a solid piece. Wish more people made stuff like that. I read ec17pse thread about making tow hooks. I was thinking about going that route.
the crossmember will fit fine, it might need a wiggle to get all bolts lined up but it should work. I recently removed my front bushes and bolted my crossmember direct to the crossbar/rsd support and it works with new bolts but its tight to get it all on! 5 bolts have to line up and its not easy. I have another brsnd though from back when they was first made before bulfab so they may fit better now

As for tow hooks. I made mine but did not consider making any to sell on. I did not see a huge market for the time to develop something and with being modular etc its hard to get it all 1 fits all so i just made mine to my needs now and future
 
I have the height lowest the shock will let me I believe. The springs were on the car when I bought it. They were just on stock shocks. I ran that as is up till I bought the yellows. The konis are not that old. I have the rebound set tighter. I forget the exact setting. But if out of a 0-10 scale, I have them on 7. I dont know the exact model for the Eibach spring.

7 is a bit high.

What color are the eibach springs? Red or black.
 
the crossmember will fit fine, it might need a wiggle to get all bolts lined up but it should work. I recently removed my front bushes and bolted my crossmember direct to the crossbar/rsd support and it works with new bolts but its tight to get it all on! 5 bolts have to line up and its not easy. I have another brsnd though from back when they was first made before bulfab so they may fit better now

As for tow hooks. I made mine but did not consider making any to sell on. I did not see a huge market for the time to develop something and with being modular etc its hard to get it all 1 fits all so i just made mine to my needs now and future

Im hoping to get the bushings for the crossmember. Ill look more into the bullfab bar. I was hoping to find pics of people using it. I think you did a good job on your tow hook install. I am suprised more people arent looking for this. There is always people getting towed off the track at the shootout. I also might look into a tube front subframe in the future.

7 is a bit high.

What color are the eibach springs? Red or black.

Black

I did put my factory talon 2gb spoiler back on. Maybe it made a difference. Not to sure LOL. Probably mind over matter there. Ill leave the front sway bar stock. Ill replace all the bushings I can in the front, including the front shock bushings.
 
Its to the point now, pictures would be great. Take a nice clear picture of each side of the rear suspension with the wheel off if you can. Then a nice under shot. From afar, then closer, then under the car.

I want to see bushings shape, sway bar, upper A arms. Trailing arms bushings. As well as the shock setup.

Btw, lower your setting to like a 3.
 
Its to the point now, pictures would be great. Take a nice clear picture of each side of the rear suspension with the wheel off if you can. Then a nice under shot. From afar, then closer, then under the car.

I want to see bushings shape, sway bar, upper A arms. Trailing arms bushings. As well as the shock setup.

Btw, lower your setting to like a 3.

I'll lower the settings. I took a bunch of pics. The tein springs are in the front. I took pics of the camber kit up front. I know that one bushing looks funny on the inner lca. I did have some trouble with it.
 

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My next question was going to be the eccentric bolts in the rear. But it looks like you have them.

You said you put the rear 2g eibach springs on the rear? Have you thought about swapping the FRONT eibach springs onto the rear? for increased spring rate.

Other than that, looks like everything is where it should be.

I did experience some "float" but i ended up describing it like my car felt like a cruise boat. Just rocked side to side. Blown shocks will do that. My rear KYB gr2 were done, so i swapped to my used koni. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Besides a thick strut bar, and checking wheel bearings and tie rods for wear. I am out of ideas.
 
My next question was going to be the eccentric bolts in the rear. But it looks like you have them.

You said you put the rear 2g eibach springs on the rear? Have you thought about swapping the FRONT eibach springs onto the rear? for increased spring rate.

Other than that, looks like everything is where it should be.

I did experience some "float" but i ended up describing it like my car felt like a cruise boat. Just rocked side to side. Blown shocks will do that. My rear KYB gr2 were done, so i swapped to my used koni. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Besides a thick strut bar, and checking wheel bearings and tie rods for wear. I am out of ideas.

I havent thought about swapping springs around. I have been thinking of picking up some feal coilovers but only if it is a justified upgrade. I am happy with the koni shocks. I think swapping the fronts to the rear would then make the front unbalanced.

Other than that, something I thougth of was curious of tire pressure for road racers or autocross people. The rear right lower lca inner bushing gave me a hard time. Since the bushing doesnt fit in solid metal, it slide in a gap, I wondering if I messed up the arm. I noticed after installation of the bushing, It moved kind of freely. I wouldnt be able to pull it out but the arm on the car, I can wiggle the arm around the bushing. But if that were wobbling on the road, I think I would feel it bad? Back when I got my last aliegnment, I replaced the toe arms since the bolts were seized. I also just replaced the rear endlinks as well.

It is possible that whatever I am feeling in the rear is now because of the lack of inner trailing arm and toe arm bushings. But I am waiting on my volks for that.
 
Tire pressure can make a difference.

I forgot to ask, did you preload suspension prior to final torque on bolts?

I definitely think the lack of outer shell on the previous bushing, i did notice that too on the rear Toe arm. Those arms are already so weak. Thats why some folks swapped in some 3g suspension.

I just recently hit the yards to look from cross member bushings / bolts. Only set online i found is for a 3g eclipse
https://www.prothanesuspensionparts.com/13507
 
It looks like your running more camber on the rear then the front. This will also cause a light feeling in the back because it has less tire contact and will tend to move around alot more fi ding things in the road and also the arc of the roads. This along with the toe changes during its movement range might be causing you some feelings you dont like.

I know its not easy to just go an adjust toe and camber without paying for it and it not work but its an idea to think about.
For time like this is why i went and bought my own laser wheel alingment kit so i can mess around freely and adjust anything and still set it up again after. Its paid for itself more then once already
 
Here is a picture I found earlier whilst searching for crossmember bushings.

Below is a picture of the 2g rear toe arms.
 

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Tire pressure can make a difference.

I forgot to ask, did you preload suspension prior to final torque on bolts?

I definitely think the lack of outer shell on the previous bushing, i did notice that too on the rear Toe arm. Those arms are already so weak. Thats why some folks swapped in some 3g suspension.

I just recently hit the yards to look from cross member bushings / bolts. Only set online i found is for a 3g eclipse
https://www.prothanesuspensionparts.com/13507

After I get the volk arms installed, ill post up another update. I did preload the suspension as well. Overall so far, I do feel a difference with the bushings. My factory ones were just worn.

It looks like your running more camber on the rear then the front. This will also cause a light feeling in the back because it has less tire contact and will tend to move around alot more fi ding things in the road and also the arc of the roads. This along with the toe changes during its movement range might be causing you some feelings you dont like.

I know its not easy to just go an adjust toe and camber without paying for it and it not work but its an idea to think about.
For time like this is why i went and bought my own laser wheel alignment kit so i can mess around freely and adjust anything and still set it up again after. Its paid for itself more then once already

Ill post a picture of my alignment sheet when I get back to the garage. Do you have a link to the lazer kit you got? Does it seem to work accurate? Curious if you were able to replicate the same results you would get at a shop. People that have coilovers and make adjustments at the track, I wonder how they are getting back to a good alignment.
 
After I get the volk arms installed, ill post up another update. I did preload the suspension as well. Overall so far, I do feel a difference with the bushings. My factory ones were just worn.



Ill post a picture of my alignment sheet when I get back to the garage. Do you have a link to the lazer kit you got? Does it seem to work accurate? Curious if you were able to replicate the same results you would get at a shop. People that have coilovers and make adjustments at the track, I wonder how they are getting back to a good alignment.
This is the kit i got. https://www.quicktrak.co/car-wheel-alignment/standard-car-4-wheel-laser-aligner.html

Its a professional kit, not some silly little thing you place on the floor for $100 LOL i went and got a good setup the shops could use. I looked at a hunter setup but no room for a ramp and huge antennas LOL plus it was a few grsnd more for a used old unit so this kit will do me fine for a long time.

I can replicate alignments all the time. Its accurate for what i need it for, i do my daily also as i hot manh pot holes so im doing that every 2 months depending how bad it gets.
I bought proper turn plates for it for all 4 wheels so i can set toe freely and camber since its free motion in all directions and not just toe like some are
 
Just wanted to update this thread. I got all the volk arms installed and just got my rad support bushings.
 

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