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1G Wastegate problem

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1990TSIAWDTALON

1990TSIAWDTALON

Moderator
11,531
8,199
Nov 14, 2013
Independence, Kansas
So I took the 92 Talon to the track and had fun but ran into a problem that I need a second (3rd, 4th, 5th) opinion on.
I am running 4 springs in my TIAL WG, as much as you can stuff in it. The car runs a steady 33 lbs (pretty solid anyway), but when I activate my EBC, even at 100%, I can't get the car to boost anymore. I am shooting for 40's. I even took the EBC out and put a simple tee in the line and put a .30 orifice (welding tip) in the end of the open line and nothing, still just 33#'s.
Do any of you have any ideas on what may be going on. One son said maybe I have the diaphragm pinched when we put it together, as anyone who has tried probably ran into the same problem....its a Biatch to put the 2 halves together when it has 4 spring's trying to not let you but we succeeded and I thought it was doing great until I went to up the boost and it won't move above my 33 lbs.
Any ideas??? :idontknow:
Thanks 'yall!
Marty
 
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Do you know the total pressure of all the 4 springs? Might try a "careful" simple test to see if more boost is available by disconnecting the wastegate line & see if you get more than 33psi. If you do dissassemble the wastegate try using a arbor press or vise to hold it straight when squeezing it together. I assume you've checked the wastegate routing for boost leaks. What turbine housing is this with?
 
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Here are two logs where I test it. At the track I opened it up to 100%, no change at all. I really think @Mello 's suggestion is a good test, but I bet it won't do anything. I have tee'd the line and stuck a orifice in the open line end as a controlled leak but it didn't change doing that either. I AM scratching my head (and I am loosing hair....).
As always, I will try anything suggested.
Tony, I have tried those clamps but with the 4 springs that are supposed to be the MOST you can put in the gate, it is still a fun chore and my clamps will sometimes still try to slide off. My two son's and I got it together and it has always given me the steady 33lbs from day one. (I do have a press but then its a PITA to get it to mount on the MF header flange with all that spring pressure on the seat.
Pops

I added the 1st run from the track log. It shows I have the WG solenoid WIDE OPEN, 100%......I even took the metal "screen" off of the Mac valve to be sure it was open. :idontknow:
 

Attachments

  • log.2020.02.28-01 WG SOLENOID WORKING BUT NO EXTRA BOOST.elg
    266.2 KB · Views: 73
  • log.2020.02.23-07 2ND BCS TEST NO CHG.elg
    266.2 KB · Views: 58
  • log.2020.02.23-06 BCS TEST RUN.elg
    314.1 KB · Views: 58
  • log.2020.03.01-09 FIRST RUN.elg
    94.6 KB · Views: 66
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I will give anything a try. I want to have the ability to UP the boost if I want.
Nick, how do you think the boost source should be ran to the TIAL WG? I am using the top port.....
 
Upvote0
Marty, is the wastegate a 38mm or 44mm? Just speaking of my experience but I don't know if this can be an useful info for you.
Before I was struggling to have a steady 45+ psi. I used to use a 44mm tial MV-R with 4 springs (Springs for 21.75 lbs) and with an EBC. The "steady" max boost I could go was around 40 psi which is actually good since generally the max boost with a boost controller would be more or less twice more of the spring pressure. but I started wanting 50+ psi. So I tried all solenoid hose connections, a MBC, 3" and 4" side exit exhaust. Some solenoid hosing raised the max boost just a few. And I also shimmed the springs. Shimming raised the max boost a couple of lbs. The steady boost I finally could go was around 45 psi. So my conclusion was simply it was the limit, then I went with a TurboSmart Gen 4 Hyper-Gate45HP which can be used with a tial 44mm flange and originally comes springs for 35 bls and can make it 40 lbs with an option spring. I think now they have Gen 5 and comes with springs for 50 bls.
 
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Well you guys are great. I have a 44 TIAL gate. My 38 on my red car worked great and now that I speak of it.....guess what???
I might steal that bicth and swap them out.
Hmmm.
I need to look at the wiki Tony. It is how I ran my 38 but it doesn't mean it is right.
Thanks for the ideas everyone.
I think my springs were rated at 23 lbs or the max stack that I could do and when she ran 30ish off the bat you KNOW I didn't complain one bit, but now after a really good breakin and running for a while, I want more, you ALL know.
Appreciate you guys!
 
Upvote0
1990TSIAWDTALON said:
Well you guys are great. I have a 44 TIAL gate. My 38 on my red car worked great and now that I speak of it.....guess what???
I might steal that bicth and swap them out.
Hmmm.
I need to look at the wiki Tony. It is how I ran my 38 but it doesn't mean it is right.
Thanks for the ideas everyone.
I think my springs were rated at 23 lbs or the max stack that I could do and when she ran 30ish off the bat you KNOW I didn't complain one bit, but now after a really good breakin and running for a while, I want more, you ALL know.
Appreciate you guys!
Click to expand...
are you talking about swapping the 44 for the 38mm gate? youll have to make an adapter or weld a new flange on the manifold to do that. last diaphrami pinched had me running wayy more boost than i wanted. it also sounds like you do have the lines mixed around on the ebc.
 
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Man I sure appreciate you guys. Hell I put it all together, it worked beyond my expectations so who was gonna gripe....until the boost junkie came out ROFL
And I have the gate adaptor if I wanted to fk around but I really just like it the way it runs and holds....so why was complaining again??? OMG
I will look at the plumbing again too and report when I get a chance. The trans is also bothering me so I'm doing a filter/fluid chg and putting the Translab kit in it. It is flairing 3rd sometimes but only under part throttle.....another discussion.
 
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But I'm TRYING :p
 
Upvote0
DSMPT said:
Marty, is the wastegate a 38mm or 44mm? Just speaking of my experience but I don't know if this can be an useful info for you.
Before I was struggling to have a steady 45+ psi. I used to use a 44mm tial MV-R with 4 springs (Springs for 21.75 lbs) and with an EBC. The "steady" max boost I could go was around 40 psi which is actually good since generally the max boost with a boost controller would be more or less twice more of the spring pressure. but I started wanting 50+ psi. So I tried all solenoid hose connections, a MBC, 3" and 4" side exit exhaust. Some solenoid hosing raised the max boost just a few. And I also shimmed the springs. Shimming raised the max boost a couple of lbs. The steady boost I finally could go was around 45 psi. So my conclusion was simply it was the limit, then I went with a TurboSmart Gen 4 Hyper-Gate45HP which can be used with a tial 44mm flange and originally comes springs for 35 bls and can make it 40 lbs with an option spring. I think now they have Gen 5 and comes with springs for 50 bls.
Click to expand...

Hey Hiroshi! What's your wastegate set up? I'm having issues increasing boost on Tial 44. Used to be fine but not sure what's going on and it's super tight against my p/s pump. Thinking about switching to Turbosmart 45 hyper since it's lower profile. But my problem is that I have jmfab O2 housing for tial 44mm and it's recirculated. Wondering if both vbands will fit or not.
 
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tk106 said:
Hey Hiroshi! What's your wastegate set up? I'm having issues increasing boost on Tial 44. Used to be fine but not sure what's going on and it's super tight against my p/s pump. Thinking about switching to Turbosmart 45 hyper since it's lower profile. But my problem is that I have jmfab O2 housing for tial 44mm and it's recirculated. Wondering if both vbands will fit or not.
Click to expand...
I have a Hyper-Gate45 HP on the exhaust manifold now. If you want the high pressure model, you need to order one with "HP". Without "HP" is a standard pressure model, I think the max pressure would be 26psi. The HP model is taller than the Tial MV-R but slimmer.
And yes, both In/Out flanges are the same between Tial MV-R 44mm and TurboSmart Hyper-Gate45. But I am not sure if it directly fits on a JMF recirculated O2 housing without modifying since it's recirculated, so..
 
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DSMPT said:
I have a Hyper-Gate45 HP on the exhaust manifold now. If you want the high pressure model, you need to order one with "HP". Without "HP" is a standard pressure model, I think the max pressure would be 26psi. The HP model is taller than the Tial MV-R but slimmer.
And yes, both In/Out flanges are the same between Tial MV-R 44mm and TurboSmart Hyper-Gate45. But I am not sure if it directly fits on a JMF recirculated O2 housing without modifying since it's recirculated, so..
Click to expand...

Yeah I think it’s going to be different. Not liking my current set up :banghead:. Wg on the manifold is much better imo.
 
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@DSMPT , have you mounted a Hypergate 45 to a TAIL 44 flange to verify that it fits? I have NO boost source going to my gate right now and still, no more boost.
I am thinking need a better gate for more pressure and thought I would ask.
Thanks!
Marty
 
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@1990TSIAWDTALON
Yes, I have mounted. You can use the Tial 44mm flange with a TurboSmart Hyper-Gate45 or Hyper-Gate 45 HP. It's just it doesn't come with spring set like Tial gates, so you need to choose the base pressure when you buy. If you need a gate that has higher pressure than the Tial 44mm, you would probably want the Hyper-Gate 45 35psi which comes with 10 psi and 25 psi springs (Total 35 psi), and can replace the 25 psi spring with optional 30 psi spring to make it 40 psi base pressure.

This is the one I have.
https://www.turbosmart.com/product/gen-4-wg45hp-hyper-gate45-hp-35psi-black/

The O2 housing in the pic below has a Tial 44mm flange.
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Thanks for the reply, the info and the link Hiroshi!!! Much appreciated!!! :thumb:
I love the way you bolted them together! It looks like the dump tube also bolts up, that's great too!
Marty
 
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I have open exhaust Cory, I blew the flapper out of the electric cutout....OMG but thank you for the information. I don't have that flex section, I have a Morrison Fab flex section that is hard piping.
I FINALLY talked my son into letting me borrow his TIAL 44 gate (since his motor is at my shop and the car is sitting at his house) so I can see if I have a gate problem or it acts the same.
 
Upvote0
1990TSIAWDTALON said:
I have open exhaust Cory, I blew the flapper out of the electric cutout....OMG but thank you for the information. I don't have that flex section, I have a Morrison Fab flex section that is hard piping.
I FINALLY talked my son into letting me borrow his TIAL 44 gate (since his motor is at my shop and the car is sitting at his house) so I can see if I have a gate problem or it acts the same.
Click to expand...
Of course you have all this fancy tubular exhaust stuff :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::dsm:
 
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