before anything is said i have done a lot of web searching so please dont post hate... i wanted opinions from my fellow dsm'ers who definitely know more than i. i was considering the fp black which spools at around 5k. i read that if you dont have at the very least 500 it wont even open up. but if you do have 500 then itll put you in the seat at 5-8k. i read the fp red spools at about 4500rmp and the green spools at about 4k rpm. anyways i was told that i should go with the green or even the red so what do yall think? i see their both rated at basically 550hp which is what im going for (wheel).

http://www.forcedperformance.net/fp-black-for-dsm.html

http://www.forcedperformance.net/fp-red-for-dsm.html

http://www.forcedperformance.net/fp-green-for-dsm.html

also are these rods and pistons good for nitrous? nothing crazy of course. something like a 25 shot to help spool the turbo.

https://www.zex.com/turbo-nitrous-system.html

Whats the car being used for? Racing, daily, road use and autox??

Also you have s thread on rods so ask in that one about nitrous, but yes quick answer is yes the rods will hold fine, all rods will work with NOS just deoends how much you use at 1 time,

ec17pse said:

Whats the car being used for? Racing, daily, road use and autox??

Also you have s thread on rods so ask in that one about nitrous, but yes quick answer is yes the rods will hold fine, all rods will work with NOS just deoends how much you use at 1 time,

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mostly a street car but ill take it down the quarter here and there. id also like to autocross it if the opportunity arises.

I ran a 100shot on my car with a borg s369sxe to spool for fun and autocross. I wouldn't be scared of nitrous. I pulled 1-2* of timing down low when spraying and of course had proper fuel control. (AEM standalone).

I think you have conflicting goals unless you plan on using a lot of nitrous in constant fashion. An FP black, at least 500awhp, street driven, occasional dragstrip... and autocross?

Most good autocross 4G63 DSMs are setup to spool as fast as physically possible and handle aggressive cornering. The most successful seem to be running either an Evo 1 "small" 16g, Evo 3 16g or a version of a Garrett t2578 "big T28". I'm sure there are outliers, but the FP black isn't even in the same zip code.

A 500awhp DSM is dangerous as a street car unless you have the extreme willpower required to not hit boost on a public road. I'm 40, I know how dangerous it is and I know I don't have the self restraint to be able to stay out of it.

A 500awhp DSM will probably grenade a manual transmission in fairly short order. Especially if used to launch a full weight car on sticky tires at the dragstrip, or bang gears around an autocross course. Which leaves the question, do you go with the expensive dog box that is very unfriendly for street use or do you just keep replacing and demolishing cheaper hard to find stockish synchro boxes?

delta448 said:

I think you have conflicting goals unless you plan on using a lot of nitrous in constant fashion. An FP black, at least 500awhp, street driven, occasional dragstrip... and autocross?

Most good autocross 4G63 DSMs are setup to spool as fast as physically possible and handle aggressive cornering. The most successful seem to be running either an Evo 1 "small" 16g, Evo 3 16g or a version of a Garrett t2578 "big T28". I'm sure there are outliers, but the FP black isn't even in the same zip code.

A 500awhp DSM is dangerous as a street car unless you have the extreme willpower required to not hit boost on a public road. I'm 40, I know how dangerous it is and I know I don't have the self restraint to be able to stay out of it.

A 500awhp DSM will probably grenade a manual transmission in fairly short order. Especially if used to launch a full weight car on sticky tires at the dragstrip, or bang gears around an autocross course. Which leaves the question, do you go with the expensive dog box that is very unfriendly for street use or do you just keep replacing and demolishing cheaper hard to find stockish synchro boxes?

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I agree with this, you almost need a dogbox/PPG setup or an automatic for these lofty goals.

delta448 said:

I think you have conflicting goals unless you plan on using a lot of nitrous in constant fashion. An FP black, at least 500awhp, street driven, occasional dragstrip... and autocross?

Most good autocross 4G63 DSMs are setup to spool as fast as physically possible and handle aggressive cornering. The most successful seem to be running either an Evo 1 "small" 16g, Evo 3 16g or a version of a Garrett t2578 "big T28". I'm sure there are outliers, but the FP black isn't even in the same zip code.

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^this.

I went to my first autocross last year w 68hta and even that felt laggy coming out of hard turns.

delta448 said:

I think you have conflicting goals unless you plan on using a lot of nitrous in constant fashion. An FP black, at least 500awhp, street driven, occasional dragstrip... and autocross?

Most good autocross 4G63 DSMs are setup to spool as fast as physically possible and handle aggressive cornering. The most successful seem to be running either an Evo 1 "small" 16g, Evo 3 16g or a version of a Garrett t2578 "big T28". I'm sure there are outliers, but the FP black isn't even in the same zip code.

A 500awhp DSM is dangerous as a street car unless you have the extreme willpower required to not hit boost on a public road. I'm 40, I know how dangerous it is and I know I don't have the self restraint to be able to stay out of it.

A 500awhp DSM will probably grenade a manual transmission in fairly short order. Especially if used to launch a full weight car on sticky tires at the dragstrip, or bang gears around an autocross course. Which leaves the question, do you go with the expensive dog box that is very unfriendly for street use or do you just keep replacing and demolishing cheaper hard to find stockish synchro boxes?

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well i do agree with everything you are saying. i mostly plan on dragging the car it wont see the streets as a true daily. and im still very unsure about the trans. ive heard people say just go with the dog box but im scared of demolishing the dog teeth. plus i dont really want to drop several thousand on a trans... is there any trans out there thatll hold my power goals other than the dog box?

Jon at TRE has stated that his $4000 synchro trans builds he can crank out right now will take 500 torque if you avoid the twin disk setups. Go with the Southbend single dual friction disk and pressure plate. I believe Tim Zimmer used an ACT2600 paired with the South bend single for a longtime with stupid amounts of power out of a 2.3.
Also never heard any complaints about the FP red. I've heard the green is the ultimate street stock flange turbo tho. I think it's more typically a 400whp range unit tho, so it might not be enough for you if you really want that 500 number.

And for what it's worth, I have a TRE with close to 10,000k on it at around 440 whp. Never had issues. And I think it's a conservative 440 rating. The same Dyno that RS motors full interior Evo posted 370whp. That car ran 10.7 ET's in that configuration. So any other Dyno might say closer to that 500 number you're talking about.

Guess everyone telling you, you can't autocross it didn't read my post. An FP black is significantly smaller than the s369sxe I ran. Big shot of nitrous does wonders, if it's allowed in your class. My car was setup primarily for drag with a welded center diff and locker front. BUT I took 2nd in Max Effort at the shootout because the autoX times were right there in the hunt and then dusted everyone in the drag. This is with my 4Gswapped 3000GT which was heavier by at least a few hundred lbs (I wasn't gutted like most either) and I had just shit nitto street tires, where as, the serious autoXers had much better suited tires.

Bottom line, either the setup isn't as bad as every would think, or I'm a hell of a driver

@familyMAN , I don't doubt any of what you wrote, but there's really nothing normal about your setup. Max effort is a pretty good description IMO. How much N2O were you using? More than a "50 shot"? Was it triggered by rpm window? The OP has stated in another thread he wouldn't use more than a "wet 50 shot" to be triggered at 5k rpm....

Pht I'm going 2.0 aluminum long rod on a ball bearing black. High revs and wieght reduction.

delta448 said:

A 500awhp DSM is dangerous as a street car unless you have the extreme willpower required to not hit boost on a public road. I'm 40, I know how dangerous it is and I know I don't have the self restraint to be able to stay out of it.

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I don’t think a lot of people realize how ridiculous a 500awhp car is. Mine is at about 550 and it’s scary fast, but every day there is a guy needing an 800hp 6466 because that’s what YouTube made him believe.

Vegas smith said:

I don’t think a lot of people realize how ridiculous a 500awhp car is. Mine is at about 550 and it’s scary fast, but every day there is a guy needing an 800hp 6466 because that’s what YouTube made him believe.

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^This! I remember my first time driving a 450whp twin-scroll HX35 Evo. What a riot that thing was! Quick spool and absolutely ripped around. Knowing the limits of the DSM trans, I think it makes a lot of sense to limit street cars to 400-500whp. With all of todays modern turbo technology, you can have a very V8-like powerband at that level. So. Much. Fun.

Vegas smith said:

I don’t think a lot of people realize how ridiculous a 500awhp car is. Mine is at about 550 and it’s scary fast, but every day there is a guy needing an 800hp 6466 because that’s what YouTube made him believe.

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+1

My full weight shitbox Galant makes right at 500awhp and it's pretty quick, especially for the street.

Brandonjffrs96 said:

plus i dont really want to drop several thousand on a trans... is there any trans out there thatll hold my power goals other than the dog box?

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Hell, you're looking at several thousand for a stock rebuild in this day and age. Making 500hp at the wheels is easy. Making 500hp reliably is a completely different story. No sum of cheap parts will net you the latter, so be ready to spend many thousands of dollars if you want to achieve you power goals. My point being, your power goals come with a price, which also translates to more than just money. Who is going to do the work on the car? What's your budget? These two questions tie closely together, since the first will drastically affect the other.

The best advice I could give would be to start small, and work your way up. Build a solid base with supporting mods that allow for growth, and build up over time. Maybe start with something that flows 51lb/min rather than 71 lb/min?

The only other thing I'd offer is making big power is just one small part of the pie. A car making significantly less power that is dialed in to handle well will perform much better on a track, and definitely feel more lively on the street.

delta448 said:

@familyMAN , I don't doubt any of what you wrote, but there's really nothing normal about your setup. Max effort is a pretty good description IMO. How much N2O were you using? More than a "50 shot"? Was it triggered by rpm window? The OP has stated in another thread he wouldn't use more than a "wet 50 shot" to be triggered at 5k rpm....

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As I said earlier, 100shot. sprayed as low as 2500 rpm, which is about as worst case as you can do. The point is, it was a completely "wrong" setup for autocross (welded center, locker front, too big of a turbo, way too heavy car, not nearly enough tire compared to others) and yet, I made it work.

This guy's setup is much more conducive and yet, everyone is saying it won't work. I say, run it, spray the shit out of it if needed, and have fun!