The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support ExtremePSI
Please Support Morrison Fabrication

Crank no start. Newb move.. Help

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

TSI_too_slow

Proven Member
60
11
Mar 1, 2019
Camden, Indiana
Good morning yall. 2g Talon tsi, 7bolt. As my header says... I think I screwed up. just rebuilt the engine. all went well except the Vehicle Cranks and wont start. It has Fuel, Spark and Air. I found the crank sensor pigtail was missing, spliced on a new one. It cranks better now, much more consistent. Still wont start. CAR HAS ADJUSTABLE CAM GEARS, first time working with adjustable gears. Exhaust is coming out the air inlet side of the turbo. This leads me to believe my timing is off on the cams, am I right? I want to make sure im thinking correctly before removing all my pullies and the timing cover again to reset timing again, in car this time.

Thanks guys. Jake.
 
@motomattx I have not switched them. cyl 1 & 2 wires wont reach cyl 3 & 4. I did confirm spark on all cylinders though. as well as injector pulse.
You will swap the wires at the coil packs, one coil packs wires for the other, they will reach just fine, very simple and a quick thing to try. Also, one coil has the inner cylinders plug wires on its output, (cylinder 1 and cylinder4) and the other coil should have the center cylinders coils on it (cylinder 2 and cylinder 4) 1 and 2 should never be on the same coil.
 
Alright boys. Update time @motomattx @delta448 @1990TSIAWDTALON @tk106 @BLACK'98DSM @Vegas smith. So, for starters, 1g cam sensor and 2g crank sensor means 1g firing order... i had it wired for a 2g.. nube move. 2nd issue, after the firing order was corrected it spit and sputtered and would not run. Found that there was restriction in the exhaust manifold. I was able to pull the manifold back a half inch and ran open head and it ran, but it was dumping oil out of the #3 runner into the exhaust manifold (this must be why it was puffing smoke out the air inlet side of the turbo, oil getting hot and just puffing smoke out of the air inlet on turbo.). I believe the Talon is still backfiring into the intake, why? I dont know. But the intake is getting really hot when just cranking the car. Not sure if its the oil leak from a passage in the head making it choke on oil and backfire or if the oil is the restriction or what? I'm going to remove the studs and RTV the threads, try from there and make sure the manifold is clear during the time its off the car again. Thoughts, input are welcome. Thank you for your ideas and advice!
 
@motomattx That makes sense, I didn't think I needed to because I had timing correct for a 2g.. I didn't realize the 1g Cas meant 1g firing order.. I should have listened.
@Vegas smith Very big problem.. Compression came out at 170psi across the board so I don't think its a ring issue. Im thinking Valve seal? Ive got a sweet video I recorded. ill try and post it.
 
@motomattx im going to unplug the injectors tonight and try it and see. Seemed like oil. only thing that I can think of that was lubed that could be getting by is the oil on the cylinder walls from putting the new rings and pistons in.. shouldn't it be getting burnt during combustion cycle though and not going into the exhaust?
 
@motomattx so your assembly lube comment has me wondering. Theory that is crossing my mind, part of which makes sense but still leaves unanswered questions. I didn't use assembly lube, I used engine oil. So with me cranking on it and verifying it has fuel, spark and air, over and over ( with the wrong firing order) it was puffing exhaust out the turbo inlet, so would that have been igniting the oil on the cylinder walls that was used for lube and sending it through the turbo as a gas? Secondly, that video was as soon as the car started and was shut off, maybe cylinder 3 had a little excess oil in it during assembly? the start trials after that video it released less and less oil from cylinder 3 and none from cylinders 1, 2, & 4. Why are the valves bubbling up like air is passing through? Why is air passing through? After I get that issue resolved. why is it backfiring into the intake? During starting and minimal run time while Cyl 3 let oil into the exhaust manifold, the Exhaust manifold stayed cold, the intake got hot. You could hold your hand on it and not burn yourself but guestimate at about 80 degrees? It was 60 in my garage. Does the Backfiring into the intake Correlate with the oil issue?

What are yall thinking?
 
Checked your Base timing so you know that it is firing at exactly the right time and the CAS is in correctly not 180 out? Don't mean to be redundant.
 
Checked your Base timing so you know that it is firing at exactly the right time and the CAS is in correctly not 180 out? Don't mean to be redundant.

I did confirm timing, it is timed correctly. I have not done anything with the CAS as I have never had it off of the head at any point in time during the piston replacement. As I had discussed with you in DM when setting my timing I'm rather new to timing, what would I be looking for on the CAS? Making sure its in the correct position while Cylinder one is at TDC?
 
Oh just making sure that it is in phase (the CAS). My White 90 GSX came to me with the thing installed ass backwards. It still ran but was firing the plug right before the injector pulse when it was flipped backwards.
 
Oh just making sure that it is in phase (the CAS). My White 90 GSX came to me with the thing installed ass backwards. It still ran but was firing the plug right before the injector pulse when it was flipped backwards.
jeez! I bet that was hard to track down! I'm still on the road to figuring mine out. I ran the idea past my shop foreman here at my work and he and I brainstormed some good ideas to narrowing down before I just yank the head off and send it to the machine shop. I plan on recording my findings and posting on this thread tomorrow to see what yall can think of. One of the best things ive done for that car is join these forums. So much great information and knowledgeable people on here that share the same passion.
 
If you own one of these cars, you really need a support system and this forum is a great tool.
Following along!!!
 
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This ^ is how the CAS should be aligned for #1 at TDC.



You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This ^ is how it looks when taken off the head with #1 at TDC, if the sensor is installed 180 degrees out.

The "firing order" that you refer to as different between 1G and 2G, -I'll just go ahead and assume you meant coil assignment when using a 1G or 2Gb CAS with a 2Ga ECU.

Please don't put RTV on the head studs. Use ARP lube instead:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The misfiring / mistiming that you had from the "firing order" issue was probably causing the exhaust flowing out the intake / compressor issue.

At this point we really need more info from you.
 
Every other car I've worked on has been fairly cut and dry when it comes to troubleshooting issues (nothing too major... yet). Owning a DSM is like finding a needle in a haystack either because the issue is something ridiculous or because the car has been from one owner to the other that cut corners or didnt know what they were doing or just said f*** it. Even the FSM dont give you all the information.

I absolutely love these cars and people think I'm crazy for putting money into mine LOL love this website too, absolute godsend every time.
 
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This ^ is how the CAS should be aligned for #1 at TDC.

By head studs do you mean the manifold bolts? I figured out the fluid in the cylinder issues, it was a mixture of assembly oil and unburnt fuel. That is resolved. It first for just a moment. It still backfires into the intake and will not hold an idle, it fires momentarily and dies, my question for you @delta448 and hopefully its not a dumb one, what are the odds of the CAS being out of adjustment if i never had it off the head?

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

This ^ is how it looks when taken off the head with #1 at TDC, if the sensor is installed 180 degrees out.

The "firing order" that you refer to as different between 1G and 2G, -I'll just go ahead and assume you meant coil assignment when using a 1G or 2Gb CAS with a 2Ga ECU.

Please don't put RTV on the head studs. Use ARP lube instead:
You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The misfiring / mistiming that you had from the "firing order" issue was probably causing the exhaust flowing out the intake / compressor issue.

At this point we really need more info from you.
 
@delta448 lets try this again
By head studs do you mean the manifold bolts? I figured out the fluid in the cylinder issues, it was a mixture of assembly oil and unburnt fuel. That is resolved. It first for just a moment. It still backfires into the intake and will not hold an idle, it fires momentarily and dies, my question for you @delta448 and hopefully its not a dumb one, what are the odds of the CAS being out of adjustment if i never had it off the head?
 
@delta448 oh okay. I remember on my first dsm I was told theres a port in the head that will leak oil around the manifold stud threads if you do not put rtv on that specific stud. that's why I RTV'd the stud.

Ill pull the CAS off tonight and check after I mark its current location and check its position when its off.. Another amateur question ill throw out. My Valve cover that I have on now has a very cracked gasket, leaks oil when the head is pressurized, ( current valve cover is being powdercoated ). That bad of a vacuum leak going to be enough to make it not run?
 
@delta448 oh okay. I remember on my first dsm I was told theres a port in the head that will leak oil around the manifold stud threads if you do not put rtv on that specific stud. that's why I RTV'd the stud.

Ill pull the CAS off tonight and check after I mark its current location and check its position when its off.. Another amateur question ill throw out. My Valve cover that I have on now has a very cracked gasket, leaks oil when the head is pressurized, ( current valve cover is being powdercoated ). That bad of a vacuum leak going to be enough to make it not run?
It should take only 5 minutes to take the cas off and reverse the orientation. If it helps then just leave it.
 
@delta448 oh okay. I remember on my first dsm I was told theres a port in the head that will leak oil around the manifold stud threads if you do not put rtv on that specific stud. that's why I RTV'd the stud.
One of the middle lower studs extends into a pressurized oil galley in the head, and iirc, there's one right above that extends into the coolant jacket, but the rest should all be dry unless the head is cracked. In any case, use threadlocker if at all possible instead of rtv.

That bad of a vacuum leak going to be enough to make it not run?
Not unless it's missing chunks.
 
I would still replace that gasket regardless of whether or not you think it would keep the car from running. If it's bad then replace it.
well yeah LOL. I have a new gasket for my good VC that's being powder coated. I didn't want to put the new gasket on the extra VC just for a few weeks while I'm waiting on my good VC.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top