2G Anyone ever hear of a 2g with a cantilever suspension?

B00stAddictedGsx · Jan 29, 2020

Just wondering if anyone has heard of it being done or even considered? I figure it would be a HUGE undertaking filled with cutting and welding left and right...BUT jeez just think of those springs paired with roll cage bars right under that back glass.....

EC17PSE · Jan 29, 2020

I was just talking to someone about this and thats my future goal is to have a full double rear wishbone setup and have a rear thirt element suspension setup. its a fun thing to do but I got alot of date to get and do before I even start this.

B00stAddictedGsx · Jan 29, 2020

ec17pse said:
I was just talking to someone about this and that's my future goal is to have a full double rear wishbone setup and have a rear thirt element suspension setup. its a fun thing to do but I got alot of date to get and do before I even start this.

Been considering making the attempt with my buddy once my fabrication skills can back it up. figured I'd have the time as the research involved to prevent binding issues and all the other nightmares will be immense. I feel like the benefit would put the dsm on an entirely different level handling wise.

RWD4G63 · Jan 29, 2020

Yeah there's not really a performance advantage to this unless you build new uprights and a subframe so you can redesign the rear suspension to a proper multi-link setup. That is an absolutely massive task. I hope you have some good modeling software or plan to do a lot of math and prototype fabrication. I have an engineer friend that does this kind of thing for a living, and he starts in a program called susprog3D.

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B00stAddictedGsx · Jan 29, 2020

RWD4G63 said:
Yeah there's not really a performance advantage to this unless you build new uprights and a subframe so you can redesign the rear suspension to a proper multi-link setup. That is an absolutely massive task. I hope you have some good modeling software or plan to do a lot of math and prototype fabrication. I have an engineer friend that does this kind of thing for a living, and he starts in a program called susprog3D.

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you are exactly correct and I figured it was a given that one would be doing a full redesign (given rear subframes being produced is so common now for the dsm platform). Change everything, pillow everything, weld until you prefer the light of the torch over the sun.

EC17PSE · Jan 29, 2020

B00stAddictedGsx said:
Been considering making the attempt with my buddy once my fabrication skills can back it up. figured I'd have the time as the research involved to prevent binding issues and all the other nightmares will be immense. I feel like the benefit would put the dsm on an entirely different level handling wise.

in the rear it would work well being true double wishbone even basic coilovers would be good for strength and ease of adjustment vs motion ranges and alot easier to setup also. its certainly a time consuming thing for sure and can be done but to do it right takes alot of things to be extracted

EC17PSE · Jan 29, 2020

RWD4G63 said:
Yeah there's not really a performance advantage to this unless you build new uprights and a subframe so you can redesign the rear suspension to a proper multi-link setup. That is an absolutely massive task. I hope you have some good modeling software or plan to do a lot of math and prototype fabrication. I have an engineer friend that does this kind of thing for a living, and he starts in a program called susprog3D.

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I have a software but not this inclusive but its good enough for third element simulation but i seen one i want to but which is a few grand LOL

. I have already started small bits myself and hope next year to at least be double wishbone then work on the rest later on as im still deciding on whos shocks to go with still, how far i get depends if my wallet says yes or get lost broke guy

B00stAddictedGsx · Jan 29, 2020

ec17pse said:
I have a software but not this inclusive but its good enough for third element simulation but i seen one i want to but which is a few grand . I have already started small bits myself and hope next year to at least be double wishbone then work on the rest later on as im still deciding on whos shocks to go with still, how far i get depends if my wallet says yes or get lost broke guy

I understand Wallet negotiations :banghead:

the only reason I'm considering any of this is because I'm setting up my own personal machine/fabrication shop and want to hand build as much as I can.

NWHTanK · Jan 29, 2020

I had thought about it but with a diffrent rear subframe set up ,and mounting the coilovers were the spare tire sits. It would probably allow for wider wheel and tire, and put bring the wieght down to frame level.

NWHTanK · Jan 29, 2020

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B00stAddictedGsx · Mar 2, 2020

Hey guys I just wanted to drop in and let ya know what I've come up with so far. so I spoke to a guy whos got some real-world experience building crazy suspension setups his @ is Mustangkyle on instagram if you'd like to see his work. He provided these lovely images due to the similarity of the rear hatch areas. please note the similarity

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RWD4G63 · Mar 4, 2020

An interesting showpiece, but again, what are the advantages here? Unless you're building an entirely new suspension with new knuckles and everything, putting the dampers and springs in the car is moving weight up in the chassis and adding sprung and unsprung weight.

dude1988 · Mar 4, 2020

Didn't Magnus do that years ago?

B00stAddictedGsx · Mar 4, 2020

RWD4G63 said:
An interesting showpiece, but again, what are the advantages here? Unless you're building an entirely new suspension with new knuckles and everything, putting the dampers and springs in the car is moving weight up in the chassis and adding sprung and unsprung weight.

you are correct. New everything would be the idea. This is a thread for Radical redesign not trying to do it "simply" I guess for lack of a better term.

B00stAddictedGsx · Mar 4, 2020

dude1988 said:
Didn't Magnus do that years ago?

I did not know wish i could see a breakdown of the design

TSiAWD666 · Mar 4, 2020

I think there's enough room behind the engine under the intake manifold for the two shocks and levers, and if not the firewall can probably be clearanced (assuming this is a race car where the interior area by the firewall is pretty much clear). I've mused about doing this but it's not low hanging fruit and I couldn't quantify what it would do for my lap times so I've focused elsewhere, but if I run out of stuff to do and am bored I may work on this. The mention that this overall adds weight to the car is valid too, and I wonder if shifting the unsprung to sprung weight along with shifting the weight higher in the vehicle nets an overall boost to performance.

The rear is relatively easy to do and more obvious, like the pictures provided earlier of whatever hatchback that was.

After reading what I just wrote I realize I'm not offering much other than the suggestion of under the front manifold being spacious enough for shocks

I support someone trying this out though!

B00stAddictedGsx · Mar 4, 2020

TSiAWD666 said:
I think there's enough room behind the engine under the intake manifold for the two shocks and levers, and if not the firewall can probably be clearanced (assuming this is a race car where the interior area by the firewall is pretty much clear). I've mused about doing this but it's not low hanging fruit and I couldn't quantify what it would do for my lap times so I've focused elsewhere, but if I run out of stuff to do and am bored I may work on this. The mention that this overall adds weight to the car is valid too, and I wonder if shifting the unsprung to sprung weight along with shifting the weight higher in the vehicle nets an overall boost to performance.

The rear is relatively easy to do and more obvious, like the pictures provided earlier of whatever hatchback that was.

After reading what I just wrote I realize I'm not offering much other than the suggestion of under the front manifold being spacious enough for shocks I support someone trying this out though!

I have no intention to make something for the front as of now due to already being vastly out of my depth on this already. I am working on modeling software and will fabricate it as I go. thinking about a shell anyway so this could work if I could find a donor body.

EC17PSE · Mar 5, 2020

If your wanting to go this route then a special frame would be ideal and to house it inside that to minimize weight, adding other items is just a gain with not much to benifit from. Sure you get the susoension how you like it but at added cost when a subframe can do the same job and save weight and not to mention keeping it low.

Cars that do this sometimes have very short shocks so they have no option but to add this because they can use a much longer shock stroke so it works much better for them, our cars have a good shock length.

I have long terms plans to do this also but i got my own whacky plans and goals. Its nice to see others wanting to trial new things out and seeing what people come up with

95REGF150 · Mar 5, 2020

@B00stAddictedGsx those two pictures you posted are both Mustangs. The blue one is a 60's era and the red one is an 90's fox. So you should remember that in those cases they are solid rear axle setups most likely done more for show than performance. They don't have wishbones it's a 4-link arm setup on the fox and maybe even fixed ladder bars on the earlier mustang. Totally different suspension dynamics to worry about compared to our independent rears.

So I think what RWD4G63 is saying is that If that is your only real goal to get the springs under the back glass then this isn't that hard of a project and will come out much like the above mustang projects. But it will not improve the dynamics of the suspension any and if the rocker ratios and spring rates are not done properly has the potential to make it much worse.

RWD4G63 · Mar 5, 2020

To be honest, some of the fastest cars ever built don't use this type of suspension. It's usually restricted to packaging issues. Anyway, check out Nemo's double wishbone setup, because you'll want to put something like this together if you want to take advantage of something like this.

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2G Anyone ever hear of a 2g with a cantilever suspension?

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