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2G Ceramic Wheel Bearing Interest Thread

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jakelandry

10+ Year Contributor
976
157
Oct 13, 2009
Minden, Louisiana
Hey everyone, I am making this post solely to see if there would be any interest in a group buy for ceramic wheel bearings for FRONT 2G hubs only (with the possibility of rears following shortly after). I am not a supporting vendor on the site yet so we cant discuss pricing or details unfortunately, but if enough interest is generated, I will pursue becoming a supporting vendor and sharing all details. Thank you.
 
Curt Brown already does a set for the DSM, but extremely costly. Would you be able to come in cheaper than his cost?
 
I am not allowed to discuss pricing but yes I would, potentially by a lot, and I would also offer some additional benefits. If the mods allow my post to stay I would be more than happy to answer any questions.
 
You changing the grade of the balls? Or keeping to the standard grade.
 
Interested in both a front and rear set, as well as learning more about some of the "features" you're thinking about, if that's appropriate. To @ec17pse question above, are you thinking about improving the ball bearing design itself or maybe just the housing? Would these be more serviceable / easily replaceable?
 
Interested in both a front and rear set, as well as learning more about some of the "features" you're thinking about, if that's appropriate. To @ec17pse question above, are you thinking about improving the ball bearing design itself or maybe just the housing? Would these be more serviceable / easily replaceable?
When i looked into the design it was tricky to do much to it. Not impossible but its not cheap to do either
 
No need to, grease does not remove itself as its sealed
Sort of, it does go away though, I have replaced many a burnt up bearing for lack of lubrication in alot of different brands of cars during my time as a tech, sadly even in the year 2020 there is no perfect seal still.
 
Sort of, it does go away though, I have replaced many a burnt up bearing for lack of lubrication in alot of different brands of cars during my time as a tech, sadly even in the year 2020 there is no perfect seal still.
Grease has a life span anyway so if its ran out the bearing needs to be changed. When i regreased mine (was only 3000 miles old) i nearly added a zerk or how ever you spell it fitting for greasing but decided against it
 
I guess rather than discussing this as a group buy, I can discuss what I will be doing to MY bearings and would be willing to extend to others since I have the equipment and resources to do the work.

For the design, we are kind of at the mercy of the existing hub which will require us to make “hybrid” bearings with 52100 races and ceramic rolling elements. The bearing outer race, which will have to be reused, is machined into the flange so we don’t have much freedom in modifications. I am avoiding any form of machining because it immediately drives the price up. The only benefit I can see to doing machining to begin with would be if we were to heat treat the races which would require machining afterward for dimensional integrity. I am still considering taking a set and heat treating them without final machining after to test on my own car but as of now do not intend to extend this to the public.

As far as features and benefits, these would be made using grade 5 silicon nitride balls from a reputable North American vendor and either oem bearing races or an aftermarket of adequate quality. The steel races would be cryo treated which helps prevent sub-surface material inconsistencies from incomplete grain formation which is significantly more common that it sounds. I will also offer an option to press in customer supplied arp wheel studs at a very reasonable rate since I would already have the bearings town down completely and I could build a jig to do them quickly.

The good news about ceramic bearing lubrication is they do not need anywhere near the grease volume that steel bearings require. They are significantly less prone to spalling, clearance fluctuations from temperature, and friction which are all combatted with lubrication in steel bearings. You can, in theory, run them dry in a completely clean environment as the ceramic balls keep the races polished rather than abrading them with friction like steel balls do.
 
The oem housings are already hardened as you cannot use ball bearings on anything un hardened so all bearings will have a hardened surface.

I looked into making a housing for taper bearings (i did a small write up on it here some where) the problem is cost of the housing and custom bearings would be a good $600 ish if i remember correctly.

You could get the races micro polished which would be a nice finish but not sure how to suggest that or who to see about doing it! Lol
 
Would WPC Treatment be an option that could provide value in any capacity?
just my .00000000002 cents
Its a way forward yes, another cost effective option is to buy top quality steel balls that are micro polished. I think surface trestment are a cost effective way and should hold up well but not sure on time or their load rating for it, maybe email them and ask and see what they say
 
As far as features and benefits, these would be made using grade 5 silicon nitride balls from a reputable North American vendor and either oem bearing races or an aftermarket of adequate quality. The steel races would be cryo treated which helps prevent sub-surface material inconsistencies from incomplete grain formation which is significantly more common that it sounds. I will also offer an option to press in customer supplied arp wheel studs at a very reasonable rate since I would already have the bearings town down completely and I could build a jig to do them quickly.

This sounds like a good plan, and for everyone talking about grease issues, just use a high quality synthetic like Redline. It'll probably outlast the car haha. Cryo treatment ftw.

The oem housings are already hardened as you cannot use ball bearings on anything un hardened so all bearings will have a hardened surface.

I looked into making a housing for taper bearings (i did a small write up on it here some where) the problem is cost of the housing and custom bearings would be a good $600 ish if i remember correctly.

You could get the races micro polished which would be a nice finish but not sure how to suggest that or who to see about doing it! Lol

Tapered bearings are an inferior bearing for this application.

Would WPC Treatment be an option that could provide value in any capacity?
just my .00000000002 cents

WPC would definitely help with bearing longevity as it improves lubrication and surface hardness (slightly). As far as value per dollar goes, it is a little more expensive.
 
This sounds like a good plan, and for everyone talking about grease issues, just use a high quality synthetic like Redline. It'll probably outlast the car haha. Cryo treatment ftw.



Tapered bearings are an inferior bearing for this application.



WPC would definitely help with bearing longevity as it improves lubrication and surface hardness (slightly). As far as value per dollar goes, it is a little more expensive.
Tapers are only inferior as they dont roll as good as ball bearings but they are alot stronger in axial forces, compare these to angular contact bearings or normal degree they will still out perform balls,
 
Tapers are only inferior as they dont roll as good as ball bearings but they are alot stronger in axial forces, compare these to angular contact bearings or normal degree they will still out perform balls,

The problem is that they don't handle multi-angle thrust forces well. A wheel bearing is loaded in basically every direction, especially in a front driven wheel. You would need two tapered bearings back-to-back, which is big, bulky, and would have a lot of drag. A good ball bearing setup with quality grease is the best bearing for hubs.
 
The problem is that they don't handle multi-angle thrust forces well. A wheel bearing is loaded in basically every direction, especially in a front driven wheel. You would need two tapered bearings back-to-back, which is big, bulky, and would have a lot of drag. A good ball bearing setup with quality grease is the best bearing for hubs.
I know they need 2. All wheel bearings use 2 to work, i already designed a setup with tapers but struggled to find a good cost effective way to make the housing.

You can get deeper angled units to work better in higer axial loads but then you sacrifice other strengths.

I myself would opt for strengh over rotation as its not that bad since they used them and still do in some racing applications todate with good success
 
Does anyone know where Curt used to source his ceramic bearings from? I may need a single replacement and want to keep the same as other side.
 
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