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ECMlink ingersoll rand wont control properly

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stratplayer24

10+ Year Contributor
63
5
Sep 21, 2008
Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
1998 gst with 7 bolt motor, FP Black and external wastegate off the manifold. hooked up the Ingersoll Rand controller using both top and bottom ports the way that wiki says. top port T'd into compressor housing and bottom port of waste gate. side with only one port is hooked up to top of wastegate.
my problem is I have duty cycle set to 0. it will build 28PSi in third gear then drop it off to wastegate (12psi) then build back up to 28 and keep cycling 28-12-28-12. when I hook up vac lines from compressor housing straight to the bottom port of wastegate it will run a solid 12 psi all day. why is it building and cutting, building and cutting? has 12v to solenoid when key is in the ON position.
posting a log of driving the car around and doing a pull around 430 seconds. this is a new motor with about 200 miles on It. log is from about a month ago since this log I have been running vac line straight to wastegate just to run 12psi, now that I am looking into getting it on the dyno I need to figure out the IR solenoid. also since then I have been tweaking STFTs etc. like I said log is from a month ago and have been searching on the forums for someone else with a similar problem and have not found one.
 

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  • log.2019.10.13-03.elg
    426.3 KB · Views: 117
Hmm, I can't find anything wrong with your settings. You should be logging all the WG values when you do a pull to give you a better idea of what the ebc is doing.
 
Hmm, I can't find anything wrong with your settings. You should be logging all the WG values when you do a pull to give you a better idea of what the ebc is doing.
I will for sure hook the vac lines back up to controller and add wg values to the log. Probably taking the car out tomorrow if it does not rain. Thank you for the reply.
 
The problem is your base duty cycle table is zeroed out, and you have the "Disable error correction" tab checked. The boost target table (which you have configured) is used on top of the base duty cycle table, when the ECU takes your MAP sensor value into account. The way you have it set up, the ECU is ONLY referencing the base duty cycle table, which you have completely zeroed out. My advice to you would be ditch the boost target table all together, and just use the base duty cycle table alone. That's how I have mine configured. It's just going to take some trial and error to tweak the table and get your boost curve right. A hand full of pulls should be all you need to get it right.

I've tweaked the BOOST (WGS) setting in your log, so download the log file onto your tuning laptop and then upload it to your ECU, or just copy the table and settings from that file to your current config. I just guessed at the cell values, so be cautious during your first pull. If you see the boost climb above what you were seeing before, then you obviously know it's working. At that point, you need to level the cell values, and increase them incrementally until you get the desired boost level. Remember, the base duty cycle table simply tells the ECU a "desired" duty cycle at a given RPM. The actual boost level at a given RPM/duty cycle will vary on every car. You need to really understand what the ECU is doing with the boost tables in order to tune them correctly, and get the intended boost response. The system works awesome when it's configured correctly.

Read the references below:

Base Duty Cycle
The Base Duty Cycle table defines the starting point for the boost control solenoid. At any given RPM and in any particular gear, the ECU references this table to get a “base” value it'll use for the boost solenoid output.

If error correction has been disabled, then this value is the final value the ECU is going to use and your turbo will build whatever boost it just happens to build for the given wastegate duty cycle. You can use this mode of operation during setup and dialin to find where you setup naturally needs to be to build the boost you're looking for.

If error correction has been enabled, then the ECU references the Boost Target table to determine (for the same RPM and gear) what boost it should be trying to achieve at that moment. It then adjusts the base duty cycle accordingly (up or down). It tracks this adjustment with a “trim” value, similar to the short term fuel trim. The final duty cycle used by the ECU is basically:

Read ALL of this: http://dsmlink.com/wiki/boostcontrol

Read this as well: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/e...with-stock-boost-control-solenoid-bcs.474792/
 

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  • UpdatedBCSTable.2019.11.03-01.ecm
    4.9 KB · Views: 94
I'll add that not only is the duty cycle zeroed out, you have it set to lock at 100% DC until 27 psi. Therefore, it's full go until 27psi then it's a full no-go if you get my drift.
 
My advice to you would be ditch the boost target table all together, and just use the base duty cycle table alone.

The system works awesome when it's configured correctly.

/

How is disabling error correction considered proper configuration? I mean, if it works it works, but is there a reason you are recommending the OP doesn't use error correction? Why dont you use it?
 
Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly. The bottom port on the wastegate should be the only one Tee'd off with the pressure sorce. So, your pressure signal should be tee'd off with the bottom port of the wastegate and the compressor housing on the turbo. The top port on the wastegate only has one line from it to the ingersoll.
 
How is disabling error correction considered proper configuration? I mean, if it works it works, but is there a reason you are recommending the OP doesn't use error correction? Why dont you use it?
The boost error correction can sometimes respond too slow and cause spike. Its best to disable it and tune the wastegate duty tables.
 
The boost error correction can sometimes respond too slow and cause spike. Its best to disable it and tune the wastegate duty tables.

I don't find that to be true at all, but I hear what you are saying. Error correction works pretty damn well for me, but I understand that every setup is different. If you can't make it work the right way, it can still work in limited capacity and do the job you are asking of it....
 
I don't find that to be true at all, but I hear what you are saying. Error correction works pretty damn well for me, but I understand that every setup is different. If you can't make it work the right way, it can still work in limited capacity and do the job you are asking of it....
Agreed, a lot has to do with the ebcs your using as well.
 
How is disabling error correction considered proper configuration? I mean, if it works it works, but is there a reason you are recommending the OP doesn't use error correction? Why dont you use it?
Ecmlink wiki states it's very important to setup DC before using error correction so that's probably what he's going off of.

Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly. The bottom port on the wastegate should be the only one Tee'd off with the pressure sorce. So, your pressure signal should be tee'd off with the bottom port of the wastegate and the compressor housing on the turbo. The top port on the wastegate only has one line from it to the ingersoll.

I think you have it backwards.
 
Yea, that makes good sense, thanks.

But I think @GST with PSI means to never use error correction. I believe I have seen other threads where he said he doesn't use it, so I am wondering why. If I am confused about that then nevermind...
 
Ecmlink wiki states it's very important to setup DC before using error correction so that's probably what he's going off of.



I think you have it backwards.

If you run constant pressure to the top of the wastegate (tee'd off to the top port of the gate with the pressure source) , when the wgdc is 0% it will keep the gate closed and your boost will increase. You tee off the bottom port. The ebcs will bleed the pressure off but because the bottom nipple is tee'd off it will open the wastegate at whatever spring pressure your running.
 
Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly. The bottom port on the wastegate should be the only one Tee'd off with the pressure sorce. So, your pressure signal should be tee'd off with the bottom port of the wastegate and the compressor housing on the turbo. The top port on the wastegate only has one line from it to the ingersoll.
I should have wrote that a little better. When I said top port tee'd in with pressure source at compressor housing and bottom of port of wastegate. Top port meaning top port on the side of Ingersoll Rand solenoid that has two ports. It is setup how the wiki stated and pictured under using both ports on EWG.

@GST with PSI I will download the adjustments you made tonight and take a log with all wastegate values and post it up tonight.
@Vegas smith what should the lock at 100% be set at then?
 
I should have wrote that a little better. When I said top port tee'd in with pressure source at compressor housing and bottom of port of wastegate. Top port meaning top port on the side of Ingersoll Rand solenoid that has two ports. It is setup how the wiki stated and pictured under using both ports on EWG.

@GST with PSI I will download the adjustments you made tonight and take a log with all wastegate values and post it up tonight.
@Vegas smith what should the lock at 100% be set at then?
A good rule of thumb is 5psi below the max boost you'd like to run. What's happening is your boost is 100% maxing out until the map sensor reads roughly 27psi then it references the duty cycle table which is zero. This is why you're seeing this osculation between 27psi and 12 psi until eternity. You're basically telling the boost to run in circles. Sorry if the explanation is too simple or dumbed-down.
 
So an update. I uploaded the file that @GST with PSI sent and it worked. Attached a file around 230 seconds I did a 1st-3rd pull. she maxed out boost about 28psi and dropped down to 22psi at redline.Have to tweak the Base DC table for sure. Thank you for all the help guys. this site never fails!!
Got that ecu from a guy that had it in a High horse power evo 8. Explains why the 100% lock what so high. I never even maximized the ecmlink software so I never even seen those two settings before. looking back on it now I kind of feel dumb haha. Common sense would have told me 100% lock would have had to do something with it. It was set for 28.11 PSi and that is when I was having my problem. Would not have even seen it unless I asked you guys. so once again thank you very much.
 

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  • log.2019.11.04-04.elg
    187.7 KB · Views: 94
How is disabling error correction considered proper configuration? I mean, if it works it works, but is there a reason you are recommending the OP doesn't use error correction? Why dont you use it?

Yea, that makes good sense, thanks.

But I think @GST with PSI means to never use error correction. I believe I have seen other threads where he said he doesn't use it, so I am wondering why. If I am confused about that then nevermind...

I suggested for the OP to ditch using error correction in this specific case because it eliminates variables such as the MAP sensor, misconfigured error correction tables, and other things. By using the base duty cycle table alone, you're simplifying how the system is configured, and what's required to make it work properly.

I don't recommend using error correction in most cases for a few reasons:

For starters, 99% of the time, I don't think it's needed. At the end of the day, regardless of how you have the boost control configured, it's simply giving you a desired boost curve based on your inputs. As mentioned above, using the base duty cycle table alone is much more of a simple way to get that end result. Plug in a value at a given RPM, and you get an output of X amount of boost for that RPM. Because you can log data with ECMlink, you simply do a pull, check your boost level over the duration of the pull, and adjust duty cycle where needed. Rinse and repeat until the desired boost curve is achieved. Tuning your boost curve in this manner is just like dialing in your MAF, or SD table, so I think the principal is simple, and the process translates well to most people.

With error correction, it works much of the same way, but there are extra steps required with the error correction configuration table, which must be used on top of the base duty cycle table (which should already be fairly accurate). To me, you're just replicating work at that point. With error correction, you also are relying on your MAP sensor for accurate feedback to the ECU. If the sensor is f***ed, or it's not set up or configured properly, error correction will obviously not work correctly.

Additionally, the solenoid's output isn't great to begin with. Although I don't have any empirical data to back it up, I would assume by using error correction there is a slight bit more delay in how quickly the ECU asks the BCS to respond. Again, this may be negligible, but I don't see it as a necessary evil.

There are some benefits to using the error correction. If your car is subject to conditions that change a great deal, error correction would absolutely help keep your boost levels where they need to be. An example I could think of would be if you live in a place where you're constantly driving where there are extreme changes in elevation or temperature. It's also nice to make the computer do what computers are for, and give you a desired output (in this case boost level) based on your set parameters over a wide variety of conditions. With error correction disabled, you just get what you get, and there's no feedback loop to or from the ECU.

In summary, there's no right or wrong way to configure the boost control, so long as you get your desired boost curve in the end. How you do that can be as simple or complicated as the system allows. As I said above, understanding how the system works is 99% of the battle. Once you grasp the operation, there are endless ways to get your desired boost response. Personally, I set all the cars up that I tune with error correction disabled, because I think it's redundant and not needed. However, if you've got it configured and working as desired with error correction enabled, there's no reason not to use it. It really just comes down to personal preference.
 
So an update. I uploaded the file that @GST with PSI sent and it worked. Attached a file around 230 seconds I did a 1st-3rd pull. she maxed out boost about 28psi and dropped down to 22psi at redline.Have to tweak the Base DC table for sure. Thank you for all the help guys. this site never fails!!
Got that ecu from a guy that had it in a High horse power evo 8. Explains why the 100% lock what so high. I never even maximized the ecmlink software so I never even seen those two settings before. looking back on it now I kind of feel dumb haha. Common sense would have told me 100% lock would have had to do something with it. It was set for 28.11 PSi and that is when I was having my problem. Would not have even seen it unless I asked you guys. so once again thank you very much.

Glad to hear the boost control issue is sorted out.

Looking at your log, you've still got plenty of work to do. Your AFR and AFRatioEst are pretty far off. Your SD table definitely needs some work, and is pretty choppy in a bunch of places. You want nice smooth transitions form cell to cell.

Same deal with your fuel table. You never want an isolated block of values that don't transition smoothly into the rest of the table.
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You have the flex fuel options enabled, but I don't see a flex fuel sensor in your configuration tab? What's the deal with that?

Most of what you need to do to get your tune sorted is located here: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/suggested-prerequisites-for-ecmlink-log-advice.511062/
 
Brett, thanks for your response. Very thoughtful and logical. I would have to agree that when you get the boost curve you want - send it! Even if that means you get the desired curve without error correction. If you run into issues due to elevation changes you can try enabling error correction. The duty cycles would already be really close, so it wouldn't take much to enable it - if it is needed.
 
Glad to hear the boost control issue is sorted out.

Looking at your log, you've still got plenty of work to do. Your AFR and AFRatioEst are pretty far off. Your SD table definitely needs some work, and is pretty choppy in a bunch of places. You want nice smooth transitions form cell to cell.

Same deal with your fuel table. You never want an isolated block of values that don't transition smoothly into the rest of the table.
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You have the flex fuel options enabled, but I don't see a flex fuel sensor in your configuration tab? What's the deal with that?

Most of what you need to do to get your tune sorted is located here: https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/suggested-prerequisites-for-ecmlink-log-advice.511062/

You are absolutely correct I do have some work to do on the tune. Have a set of 2150cc injectors and planning on running E85 first thing next year. Getting a dual map tune on the dyno. So didn't want to spend time perfecting Wot on 650s just to throw other injectors in and start all over. Was just using the 650s to drive it around until the motor was broke In, got oil pressure, cooling, and boost issues figures out. Haven't boosted the car much other then the logs I had posted on this thread. Of course once I figure it all out, it's getting cold here in Pittsburgh. They just started putting salt down on the roads so that's the end of the car being driven this year. Gonna sit in the garage until spring.
Everytime I tried to smooth out the SD table and clear fuel trims it would go above +/-5 percent sometime upwards of 10-12%. It looks ugly but the wideband was reading good Af ratios. left it alone just to cruise around.

I do have a gm flex fuel sensor in the return fuel line. I guess I didn't get to configured where it's wired into yet. Good catch. Will go grab the laptop and disable that for now. I will more then likely forget when it's time to pull it back out next spring.

Thank you very much for the link and all the advice! Will read that over. After I get it tuned I will post it up and maybe have you look it over? Just for a second opinion.
 
@GST with PSI was just looking under the configuration tab and did not see where to tell ecu that there is ethanol sensor installed. Red the wiki and here is what it said. Does this sound right?
basic ethanol sensor functionality (i.e., automated global fuel adjustment). Once checked, the ECU will start sampling the MAF input for a valid ethanol sensor signal and once found will apply an ethanol-based adjustment to the global fuel scalar defined on the Fuel tab

Thank you!
 
@GST with PSI was just looking under the configuration tab and did not see where to tell ecu that there is ethanol sensor installed. Red the wiki and here is what it said. Does this sound right?
basic ethanol sensor functionality (i.e., automated global fuel adjustment). Once checked, the ECU will start sampling the MAF input for a valid ethanol sensor signal and once found will apply an ethanol-based adjustment to the global fuel scalar defined on the Fuel tab

Thank you!

Yep, that's right. I learned something today. When you enable the ethanol sensor feature under the AuxMaps tab, you're asking the ECU to simply take whatever it sees on the MAF input and use it to begin interpolating your fuel tables. This is also why the flex fuel feature is only available when using SD.

If you're not swapping between pump gas and E85 on a consistent basis, I'd disable this feature. Honestly, based on the current state of your tune (no offense intended), I'd pick E85 or pump and adjust my tune accordingly. Sorting out the flex fuel function is probably one of the more difficult things to do with the tune, and should only be done after you've got a solid baseline tune to build off of.
 
Yep, that's right. I learned something today. When you enable the ethanol sensor feature under the AuxMaps tab, you're asking the ECU to simply take whatever it sees on the MAF input and use it to begin interpolating your fuel tables. This is also why the flex fuel feature is only available when using SD.

If you're not swapping between pump gas and E85 on a consistent basis, I'd disable this feature. Honestly, based on the current state of your tune (no offense intended), I'd pick E85 or pump and adjust my tune accordingly. Sorting out the flex fuel function is probably one of the more difficult things to do with the tune, and should only be done after you've got a solid baseline tune to build off of.

No offense taken at all. I'm new to ecmlink and still figuring out all it can do. By no means do I consider my self good at tuning with it. I am going to be paying for someone to tune the car next year. the tuner told me to install flex sensor ,get everything working correctly before I brought it down to him. E85 is only at one gas station near me. So having the ability to switch between pump and e85 is important to me.
One other thing I do want to ask. I would like to log fuel pressure as well. Was looking up last night about ppl that have done it. They are using the mdp sensor input for their fuel pressure sensor input. I am currently using the mdp for my Omni map sensor. I still have the baro input open on the ECU. Was wondering do I have to take out that pull down resistor to be able to log a fuel pressure sensor? Or is removing that resistor only for ppl that use baro input for Omni?
Thanks a bunch.
 
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