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420A Motor won’t turn over.

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Mudjug69

Proven Member
43
4
May 10, 2019
Quitman, Texas
I just recently bought a 97 Talon esi. Well today I finally had a chance to mess with it to see if I could figure out why it wouldn’t crank. I can turn the motor over by hand using the belts but once I hooked a battery up and tried using the key it clicked one time then did nothing. The battery is good cause it starts my other talon up no problem. Do y’all think it could be a bad starter?
 
The click comes from under the hood? If so its most likely starter. If not its probably the starter relay in the car you hear clicking. My 95 awd I bought had the clutch switch button missing so it wouldnt kick over. Worth checking by your clutch pedal for the switches and make sure they arenresponding to your pedal.
 
I tried tapping the starter and nothing happened. I checked the clutch switch yesterday and it was there but doesn’t mean it is working. I know the guy I got it from said he couldn’t ever figure out why it wouldn’t start but said it would crank over. Makes me wonder if he burnt the starter up from trying to crank it to much. The car only has 96014 miles on it so I’d like to get it running to help save me some gas
 
usually its a 2 person job, you need one person working the key while the other is hitting the solenoid.

Here is some info on the clutch switch
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the ASD relay and the fuel pump relay are on the firewall between the brake and clutch reservoirs. The two relays are exactly the same and the plugs can be swapped. So just remember the gray plug is for the ASD, the black plug is for the fuel pump.
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Why don' t you unplug connector at the starter and jump the solenoid directly from the battery?
All you need its female spade connector and a wire (or a remote start switch if ya got one).

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You need to check the signal wire. Period. If you have signal and power on fat wire then you need a starter. If you don't then you need to figure out what is missing and depending from the result you find, it will determine which direction you will have to go. Period.
 
I have power going to the starter. So I took the solenoid wire free and ran a wire straight from the battery to it and still just clicks. Then I took the good starter off my running motor and tried it same thing. Now I’m charging the batter to see if maybe that’s the problem. I know the clutch doesn’t have any pressure in it but it’s in neutral. So hopefully it’s just a dead battery. Even tho the car seems to have great power to the lights and everything else.
 
I have power down to the signal wire to the hot side of the solenoid. The same as the battery. I put the starter I thought was bad on my other car and it started it right up. Jumping a hot wire down to the started didn’t work. I’m starting to think maybe it’s a bad ground wire to the starter
 
Their should be no ground wire to the starter. It uses the trans as ground. You need to check if you have current to turn the engine. The best way to do it is to use like a head light bulb or some other light that takes a lot of current to power on. Then attach a wire to the signal wire and run it to the light. The other leg of the light run it to the battery. Then turn the key. The light should light up bright. If not then you have a weak signal. Simple test light does not work in this situation as a test light will light up with very low current. Also the power wire should be tested like this too. If you would have an amp clamp then it would be really beneficial in this situation but since you are asking on the forum then I will assume that you dont have one and dont know how to use one either. A lot of time you will have both powers and that would indicate a bad starter. Sometimes it is not enough current and sometimes the signal is missing when you turn the key and thats where it gets exciting. You need to step back and rethink your strategies and go over your results. Good luck with you diagnostics. Thats why shops charge money for diagnostics because of all the time being wasted looking for problems.

Also try to turn the engine by hand and see if it even turns.
 
in stock form, the ground wire should go from the battery to the strut tower and then to top bolt of the starter.
An easy way to check the ground is to use jumper cables. Clip one end to the (-) battery and the other to the top bolt on the starter. Then try and start it.
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Their should be no ground wire to the starter. It uses the trans as ground. You need to check if you have current to turn the engine. The best way to do it is to use like a head light bulb or some other light that takes a lot of current to power on. Then attach a wire to the signal wire and run it to the light. The other leg of the light run it to the battery. Then turn the key. The light should light up bright. If not then you have a weak signal. Simple test light does not work in this situation as a test light will light up with very low current. Also the power wire should be tested like this too. If you would have an amp clamp then it would be really beneficial in this situation but since you are asking on the forum then I will assume that you dont have one and dont know how to use one either. A lot of time you will have both powers and that would indicate a bad starter. Sometimes it is not enough current and sometimes the signal is missing when you turn the key and thats where it gets exciting. You need to step back and rethink your strategies and go over your results. Good luck with you diagnostics. Thats why shops charge money for diagnostics because of all the time being wasted looking for problems.

Also try to turn the engine by hand and see if it even turns.

I have an amp clamp/multimeter that I used to check it all. As for the ground both my cats came with a ground wire that runs from the battery to the strut tower then down to the top bolt on the starter. I got the car to turn over by pulling all the spark plugs out. But cylinder 2 plug was melted pretty badly. I did get the car to crank for like 10 seconds but died. After it died the car started turning over like it had a low battery then went back to clicking.
 
I have an amp clamp/multimeter that I used to check it all. As for the ground both my cats came with a ground wire that runs from the battery to the strut tower then down to the top bolt on the starter. I got the car to turn over by pulling all the spark plugs out. But cylinder 2 plug was melted pretty badly. I did get the car to crank for like 10 seconds but died. After it died the car started turning over like it had a low battery then went back to clicking.
Weak battery or bad battery connections (dirty, corroded, not tight).
 
Weak battery or bad battery connections (dirty, corroded, not tight).

Battery is good and I’m getting god power down to the starter. I’m gunna have a buddy come over and turn the key over so I can see how much voltage drop I have when putting the starter under a load
 
Your battery is weak or you have partially broken wires or poor connection. I say battery is weak but I would be a little concerned if I would pull out a melted spark plug. I would pull all the plugs out and turn the engine. It should be somewhat light to turn. I would also do a leak down to see if you have any mechanical issues. If horoscope is available maybe even peak inside. All of this would take maybe an hour to do. It's a simple look over. But potentially will show something usefull And maybe you have a bigger problem then you think. Melted plug means lean condition and things got hot a bit. Keep us posted and good luck.
 
Battery is good and I’m getting god power down to the starter. I’m gunna have a buddy come over and turn the key over so I can see how much voltage drop I have when putting the starter under a load
How do you know? You judging by voltage reading? My coworker changed out a $300 dollar started on Izuze NPR and the truck still didn't start. It turned out to be the power wire partly coming out of the socket on the battery. But all powers were there just no current. That's why I was thought to test circuit with a good load, in my case I have one of those flashing red school bus lights and I test starters, radiator fans,blower motors, and other high current circuits with it. This meathod works great on things that you can control or by directionals on the scanner.
 
Your battery is weak or you have partially broken wires or poor connection. I say battery is weak but I would be a little concerned if I would pull out a melted spark plug. I would pull all the plugs out and turn the engine. It should be somewhat light to turn. I would also do a leak down to see if you have any mechanical issues. If horoscope is available maybe even peak inside. All of this would take maybe an hour to do. It's a simple look over. But potentially will show something usefull And maybe you have a bigger problem then you think. Melted plug means lean condition and things got hot a bit. Keep us posted and good luck.

I had the battery checked and it is good. It also turns my other Talon over with no problems. I ohm the wires and they all turned out good. The ground had some resistant that’s why I ran a whole new ground wire. The starter tested good and with the plugs out the motor turns over by hand easy. After turning it over with the plugs out I put the plugs back in and a new one back in cylinder 2 but it turns over slow now like the battery is weak. I’m going to do a compression check and if that test good I’ll see about scoping the #2 cylinder. If I can’t find a scope I’m pulling the head off and inspecting it. The car only has 96014 miles so I hope it’s nothing major
 
what if the valves on exhaust weren't opening, because of a broken dowel pin on the cam. wouldn't that turn the exhaust stroke into a compression stroke? meaning that you would have 2 cylinders in compression at the same time. Right? or is my thought process way off.
Cause that would explain why it turns over easily with the plugs out. With them in it would be like doubling the compression. So that would be like 300+ Psi or something like that . I doubt the starter has enough torque to deal with compression that high.

Does that seem right to anybody or am i just a fuctard?
 
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what if the valves on exhaust weren't opening, because of a broken dowel pin on the cam. wouldn't that turn the exhaust stroke into a compression stroke? meaning that you would have 2 cylinders in compression at the same time. Right? or is my thought process way off.
Cause that would explain why it turns over easily with the plugs out. With them in it would be like doubling the compression. So that would be like 300+ Psi or something like that . I doubt the starter has enough torque to deal with compression that high.

Does that seem right to anybody or am i just a fuctard?

I was thinking of pulling the valve cover off and checking all of that and seeing if maybe one of the cams were messed up or something. Cause all the electric seems good and the fact it turns over without any plugs makes me think it’s something internal causing the problem.
 
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