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GSX to Sebring LX Swap

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I realize quite well what I'm into. Finding a decent welder as we speak, collision center guys that do this stuff for a living. I want to see what they say about swapping the passenger frame rails. I could be well wrong but having the frame rail swapped, I don't see any reason why the 4g63 couldn't fit. The frame rails on the two cars are identical, just mirrored. If they can maintain structural integrity then that is what I'm going to do. I don't care if they even decide to just decide to patch it instead of welding the whole frame rail in... they are the pros and I'm not about to trust my welding skills at such an important area. It is something I know I'd need to address and if it fizzles out then so be it.

As far as the rear swap, it looks to me just like a Spyder/GS-T AWD swap. Remove the two front bolts, add in two more bolts into holes already in the frame and zip it up. The rear subframe in the Sebring seems to be the exact subframe that is used for FWD Eclipse's. The gas tank is the same that is used for FWD Eclipses. If those two parts are the same then there is a good chance that the swap will work.

The driveshaft/propeller or whatever it is called, yeah I know that will not fit. Wheel bases are around 7" difference from hub to hub. I'm unsure of the actual distance from transfer case to differential but that will be addressed at some point and once I get exact measurements I'll do what needs to be done. People work on driveshafts for a living, it is what they do. There is so little information about this but for all I know a driveshaft from a Galant VR-4 will work, or even a different make/model car all together. If I have to save up for another 6 months/a year to have one custom made, so be that too.

I've got a Sebring LXi on the way that has amazing interior that is going to allow for a really nice upgrade to the car's interior. I also plan on installing the sunroof as well. I know that isn't a bolt on procedure as well but it is what I'm going to do.

@BAD Thanks for the link. Any idea how I could sign up there? Seems the Captcha is broke and I cannot register. I'd LOVE to see that thread about the Sebring/Avenger stuff. Any help I can get is more than welcome. Thanks again for the info. I've searched hours and hours and never found that site before... maybe I suck at searching. Please let me know if you know someone that I can get in contact with so I can register.

@buhay6 I could well be wrong here but the Sebring's chassis is identical to a GS and other 420a Eclipses/Talons/whatever. With the motors being rotated as compared to the 4g63, the side transmission mounts are on the opposite sides along with a "hump" that adds clearance for the transmission itself. I've got the GSX's frame rail and if that can be swapped into the Sebring then there isn't a whole different to a 4g63 setup. There may be a few mounts here or there on the firewall that may be different but that isn't anything a rivet nut couldn't fix. Or possibly a grommet or two if need be. I'm not planning on using a stock harness, getting one from Haltech(awesome dude's BTW). I visited their shop the other day and talked to the dude that was making my harness.

@tametalon92 What do you mean by "standard swap?" You referring to the whole front clip vs. the frame rail/cut&patch? And yeah, I'm %100 wanting to go with a stock Sebring look. My wife is very, very particular about her car and the whole game is trying to do all these upgrades while keeping the "essence" alive. I've surprised she wanted to go with the leather interior upgrade to be honest. I found just a little rust in the truck, driver side by the wheel well. Nothing structural. She cried after finding it. There is a whole big backstory about the car and her, nearly losing it after a wreck and busting her but for months getting it back from the insurance company. We all can identify with having our "baby," be it a car, motorcycle or whatever. This is, without a doubt, her baby.

But honestly, If it all goes to crap, and it may well at any moment, I'll call it quits before damaging her car and if we have to end up settling with a few bolt on upgrades to her 420a to get 20-40 more HP out of it, so be it. I'm not afraid to fail, I'm more afraid of giving up.
 
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Sounds like youve got the drive for the project and are letting the right ppl do the appropriate things.

My mention between a standard swap and front clip is exactly as you thought. Standard would be swapping the rails and mounts, front clip is taking the entire front of the car from the eclipse and grafting it in place of the Sebring piece. Option A is much less intensive and doesn't invade structural soundness as much imho.

Good luck with it, post updates when you can!
 
wrote this up a long time ago. I’ll try to update it and include some pictursThis swap isn’t that complicated but it just takes some time and patience. A 2g 4g63 E/T donor car is required. You can buy one complete or a shell (no engine/trans) for under a grand. I paid $800 for my complete donor car that was in a rollover accident. A FWD swap is the same but you obviously skip the rear part of the swap. Try to give yourself plenty of room and take your time. These cars are pretty old now so clean up the parts and any rust as best as you can. I also suggest buying a spot weld cutter.A/S = Avenger / SebringE/T = Eclipse / Talon (4g63)You can approach this swap in 3 sections. Front, Rear, and Interior. It doesn’t matter if you start with a 420a or 2.5l v6 A/S since everything will be removed. This how-to covers all of the major obstacles with this swap. If you’re expecting a bolt by bolt how-to you should not attempt this swap. This is the donor car i started withFront Engine SwapThe main difference between the front end of the A/S and the E/T with 4g63 is the frame rails. They are both basically the same but swapped on other sides. The first step is to basically remove everything from the front end of your A/S. I removed the ABS system so decide what you want to do with your brake lines. You also have to remove your old transmission mount. You can also remove the other stock passenger side mount. I removed it so the swap would look stock.Make it look like thisSub-frame/Suspension: The E/T sub-frame and front suspension will swap right in. So just unbolt the A/S one and put the E/T one in so you can have a rolling chassis. The A/S suspension will also work with the E/T subframe. I used my A/S suspension because mine had the balljoint recall done and was in better condition.New Subframe InstalledFront Engine Crossmember Mount: I started with this mount since it’s the easiest one to locate. The A/S front end is a bit longer then the E/T so the E/T engine cross member is short and does not reach the core support. It’s only short by a couple inches or so. I made the new mount out of a ¼” thick piece of 90 degree angle iron. The bottom inside part of the core support is like a C channel and the angle iron allows you to weld the new mount in at the top, bottom, and a little bit on the sides. I also welded the nuts to the angle iron to make any install or removal easier. Make sure you measure everything a few times using a few references before you weld the mount in.Finished MountDriver Side Engine Mount / Frame Rail: Alright, this is probably the worst part of the swap. Make sure the driver side suspension is removed to give you more room to work and make sure your jack stand is behind the area of the frame you’re working on. First you want to remove the spot welds to remove the panel where the new engine mount goes and then remove the new mount the same way from the donor car. Then test fit the engine to see where you need to cut for pulley clearance. The water pump pulley makes contact with the frame rail so you will need to pocket the rail a bit. The rail moves in towards the engine a little bit in this area. The pocket starts about 0.5”-1.0” deep and then transitions flush with the rest of the frame ahead. You also have to make sure the top part of this area is flat so the actual motor mount clears. Use my pictures for reference if you want. Now patch it back up when everything clears. Now it’s time to finish the mount. The new mount will need to be trimmed to fit. The top part near the strut tower is the same shape so this will ensure that the mounting point is almost exact. Weld everything up and test fit the engine again to make sure everything bolts in and to prepare for the transmission mount. I also suggest waiting until the swap is finished if you swap to polyurethane mounts. It’s a pain to test fit the engine so many times with them installed. If you plan on running AC, the compressor makes contact with the frame rail as well. You will have to modify the rail in this area.Mount Removed from Donor VehicleTest Fitting the Engine Frame Rail Patched and Panel RemovedMounted Welded inFinished Mount PaintedTransmission Mount: The transmission mount should be pretty close to where it needs to be when you test fit the engine again. The passenger side frame rail is lower so the mount needs to be built up from the frame rail. I made my mount out of 0.25” thick steel. Again take several reference measurements off the donor car to make sure you have a good idea where it should be located and weld it in.New Mount Welded InFinished Mount All PaintedInteriorClutch master cylinder: From inside the car, look at the firewall where the cylinder should be. The inner skin of the firewall is already stamped for it. There should be 2 small holes and a bigger one in the middle. Now drill these holes out of the outer firewall skin. Once complete the clutch master cylinder can be bolted in place. The clutch fluid container just bolts in using the original holes in the firewall.Pedals for manual transmission: You will need to swap out the brake pedal assembly for the slimmer one. Just unbolt it from the firewall and bolt the other one in. The clutch pedal mounting points are already there so just remove it from the donor car and bolt it in.Wiring Harness:The whole harness needs to be swapped which is pretty straightforward. None of the Avenger wiring will be reused except for the harness in the doors. The rear harness may need to be lengthened for the taillights. The 4g63 rear harness uses a different taillight configuration. I believe the A/S has the brake and turn separate and the E/T has a 3in1 bulb. I tried to use the avenger harness and the lights do not work right so you will have put the E/T bulbs in the A/S housings. RedVengeAPX?Dash wiring: If you want to keep the avenger dash, you will need to swap the wiring. Just take the wiring off the A/S dash and put the E/T dash wiring in. I had both dashboards right next to each other when I did this step to make things easier. Swap the cluster as well. If you like the dashboard that came in the donor car better, don’t swap the wiring, and just swap the dashboard.5-speed Shifter Assembly: Just unbolt it from the donor car and bolt it in. Note where the cables go through the firewall. The avenger uses a hole towards the driver side and the 4g63 uses a hole an inch over towards the passenger side. If you want you can cut that spot out and weld the other shut. Rear AWD SwapReview this how-to for an eclipse awd swap. It is the same except for a couple small details I will mention.http://www.automotivearticles.com/AWD_Conversion.shtmlNOTE: Skip the part for the wiring of the fuel pump. We have to use the whole rear E/T wiring harness. Tips for Finding the new mounting locations: Our chassis already has the mounting holes for these components. Locate these holes underneath the car. Using a screwdriver and a hammer I punctured a hole to inside the car. Now from inside the car I can locate the mounting points by finding the punctured holes. Using a 1” hole saw, I made holes so I could drop in the mounting bolts. Since these holes are exposed, check to make sure that the area isn’t rotted around the holes. For locating the bolts that you need to swap for larger ones, just look at the picture of the eclipse carefully and try to estimate where they are on your donor car. Taking them out of the donor car first gives you enough practice to find them on you’re A/S.Old front rear sub-frame bolts: Two of the original rear end mounting bolts will not be used. I just cut them off from underneath so I didn’t have to cut the trunk floor up some more. They need to be removed or else the awd rear will hit them when trying to bolt it in.Old Gas Tank mounts:Just a reminder to make sure you cut out the ones that are on the sides. Drive Shaft: The last rear section of the driveshaft needs to lengthened 3 7/8” exactly. Any good driveshaft shop should be able to do this and balance it. They will cut the ends of the last section and weld a new longer tube in place. Drive Shaft Mounts:I used the driveshaft mounts from the donor car. They are a bi*** to remove if you drill the spot welds. If you use them they will need to be cut up so they can fit nicely. I recommend only removing the section that is in the tunnel since the rest doesn’t fit. Don’t be surprised that you have to remove a lot of material from the mounts. You can make your own but I thought it would easy to use the original mounts, give me a better idea how they should look, and keep the shaft straight. I had the driveshaft bolted to the rear end and used two jacks to lift the two mounts in place to test fit them. After they fit well I just welded them into place. Finished Front MountFinished Rear MountE-brake Cable: Use the avenger e-brake for the swap. The eclipse one is too short. So when you take the rear end out of the donor car disconnect the e-brake behind the rotors before you drop it. I took pictures of the assembly just to make sure I put it back together correctly. The avenger uses the same parts so you can use them if you loose any parts. The cable is a little too short to route it using use all of the stock clamps that secure it. I used some new clamps to secure it.Exhaust: I had a Custom 3" S.S. exhaust system made up at a local shop. I you want, you can buy a catback exhaust for a 2g AWD and lengthen the straight section a bit for it to work.That’s pretty much it. Just clean everything up and make it look good.If you need any help, these are the members who have performed the swapMixMasterMikeJasonLeeRedVengeAPX
 
That's the overall how to by MixMasterMike, should give you some decent info.
 
@BAD Awesome! Thank you very much!

I went to a local collision shop and talked to a few guys there. The guy that does the welding for the shop, a younger guy, is up for the challenge. Even texted messaged me later in the evening saying he couldn't wait to start on it and wants to come to my house to check the cars out.

From the initial look from pictures and describing it to him, he says he may go the route of notching the frame and custom fabbing the mounts. Again, sight unseen kind of thing. I linked him a forum thread where a guy notched out the frame section from one car and welded it into another. He thinks there is a chance he'd be able to do it without a donor. Fab it up, sit the motor and get everything right and go in an brace with and tub it he says.

I think I may well have found the right guy for the job. He is just coming off of an LS swap on a Jeep Grand Cherokee so it seems he has the skills.

It will take a bit, not a quick process. I've got to save up a few more bucks for it but he did ballpark quote a full frame rail swap for a good price. But that was guessing sight unseen. Going the notching route will likely be a lot less work.

@BAD I also cleaned up that post you sent in a Google Doc. I added the pictures in as well. I take no credit whatsoever for the write-up but I wanted something a bit easier for me to follow.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1P8EeoKtxcB76gwTDNpmEpicyhiwH7Cav06xKpLc4gUA
 
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Got the Sebring donor car last night. Just look at the interior. Amazing for a '98.
20190321_160832.jpg 20190321_160910.jpg 20190321_160850.jpg 20190321_160841.jpg


It hasn't been wiped down either. Got it for $250. I think all that is wrong with it is an overheating. I've never seen the sticker by the shifter before.

Again, thanks to everyone posting!
 
been spying on this thread for a couple days, now you have peaked my interest. Is that faux wood trim premium on a sebring? I kinda like it, also those seats with some TLC will look fresh off the dealership floor!
 
I know that this is kind of going a different direction, but there have been a few EVO swaps these days and the starting point seems to be the opposite of what you're doing. Swap the engine mounts between the two frame rails to allow the engine to sit on the other side of the engine bay. The EVO IV-IX have engines on the passenger side, same as the Sebring. I don't know too much about the swap personally, but it seems like there would be plenty to justify the additional cost of the EVO engine, transmission, and transfer case if you've got the budget for it.
 
@randman2011 I thought about it, a lot. It really came down to price. It seems to be cheaper to get the welding done as opposed to buying the new motor/tranny. If I didn't already have the GSX donor, especially with a 6 bolt, I'd likely went that direction.

@tametalon92 thanks! Lucky score for sure!

@Dreams Realized I went back and forth about the wood trim. But after seeing it practically brand new...it is so ugly I think I like it!
 
Hey,
The capcha is fixed so you should be able to join, might take a few days to get fully approved. Hopefully you made some progress on the swap.
 
Hey,
The capcha is fixed so you should be able to join, might take a few days to get fully approved. Hopefully you made some progress on the swap.

Awesome, thank you!

I am making progress, slow going though. I've got the rear subframe from the GSX dropped, completely dismantled, sandblasted/cleaned. Waiting on the bushing at the moment. Then going to do the front subframe and swap them both over to the Sebring. I wanted to make the Sebring a proper roller. Getting the underneath de-rusted, everything painted, finished and ready to go, while waiting on a bit of funds for the welding.

Getting the eccentric bolts out was a real pain. Went through a few blades doing that. Going with solid rear diff mounts, as that's all I could find.

Again, thanks!
 
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I've not stopped working yet. Just not a lot of time and things always seem to come up when I do have spare time. I'm getting there though. Had to get a new compressor, had to wait for this part and that, etc. Car stuff...

I've got all of the rear suspension sandblasted, painted and new poly bushings put in. Read subframe is also painted and ready to go. My next step, I've got the Sebring up on stands and I'm going to sandblast the underneath as best as I can, pull it into the garage and finish the underneath completely.

A rather huge bump in the road though. The drive side rocker, from front tire to rear, is completely trashed. The passenger side isn't nearly as bad but still not the best. Luckly the white donor Sebring has pretty decent ones still. Well enough to where I'll be able to cut them out, knock out the rust, patch it all up and weld them onto the red Sebring. Nothing structurally bad and luckily, any and all weld seams will be hidden by the plastic side pieces. Time to learn how to weld!

But anyhow, after I get the underneath all finished, I'll swap over the subframes/suspension and get her rolling again. At the point I'll be sending her off to the welder to figure how the whole front rail swap issue.
 
I have no idea if anyone is still following this thread... it is has been awhile. But I've not given up at all. Quietly working when I can, what little time I have to work. With the wife finishing her master's degree, kids, both of us working, etc., etc...

I've got all the rust cut out, rocker panels removed and so on. Used the donor Sebring to replace the bottom corners in front of the rear tires and rocker panels. Got the wheel well metal removed as well and got one donor pieces taken off too. There will be a bit of fab work to do there but considering some of the DSM's I've seen, I'm not complaining at all.

I have managed to swap both the front and rear subframes. The front is a direct bolt-on, so no biggie there. The suspension from the Sebring even works with it. I didn't want to put any new/refinished parts on the front because tomorrow the welder guy is coming over so we can start the process of getting the engine bay ready for the 4g63.

The crossmember is more of a pain than the rear subframe swap to be honest. The Sebring is about 2 inches longer in the front than the GSX... which is exactly the space needed to make everything exactly, perfectly, in the wrong place. Half an inch either way and it would be easy. Not to mention my Mishimoto radiator takes up all of the space there so nothing can be above the radiator mount's horizontal level. A big piece of angle iron, a bit of cutting and grinding seems to have it in place enough for some fitment tests for the mounts though.

As soon as the engine bay welding is done things will go a lot quicker I think. The project always seems to go quicker and easier once parts start being bolted to the car rather than only taking them off.

It has been a huge headache dealing with it all. Do I need a GSX part here, a Sebring LX part or a Sebring LXI part. Do I need a 6 bolt compatible piece here or a 7 bolt. But I think I've got most of that worked out... at least until I delve more into the engine. 2g tranny, 1g block and still deciding on what is better, 1g or 2g intake and throttle body. I've not done a lot of research on it yet.

I've been quick lucky that out of the three cars, it doesn't seem like any of them have the same problems. Be it rust, mechanical, interior, etc.
 
Enjoy following this conversion. Keep up the good work. Especially enjoy any info on what Sebring parts work with Eclipse parts. That info helps on part searches. Pics when you can.
 
We still follow it! You need to stsrt adding more pictures as while we can get a rough idea with words pictures always make us excited to see and visualise it all
 
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