2G 2GB Cylinder Head build, now GST wont stay running

MissSpyderGST · Mar 19, 2019

So my husband and I pulled my head, while it was off, I replaced the springs with Kiggly Racing beehive Street Steel springs, replaced the seals, relapped the valves using the lapper tool, cleaned it to the best of my abilities and put it back on with my new ARP Head Studs and Cometic Head Gasket. As a surprise, he also bought me Crower 272 cams and Forced Performance exhaust manifold. I bought the new turbine housing for the 14b and we put it together. Well, he did 90% of the putting together LOL

. So, I crank it, and it sounds okay, however, it wont stay cranked. I'm stock other than the above mentioned info and a cat back exhaust and FMIC. He's looked into it and so have I and we can't seem to get a real clear answer as to why this is happening. Just a few guesses. I dont have tuning software at all, and once he mentioned that the cams were too big with no tune, that it could be the answer, and I agree. I would just like to get some opinions as well, and hopefully a 100% right answer. Any and all help would be appreciated. I just wanna drive my baby again.
Thanks,
Sara

ThunderChild · May 8, 2019

The angle being different on the pics makes the aspect wierd, but I think they all look farely normal. A leak down test would be most efficient at this point, might be able to rent the tool from a parts store.

While a hg leak is possible, you should still have some compression, unless it's completely blown out, in which case you have coolant or oil leaking back into the combustion chamber to some level. Makes me feel like a slightly bent valve or wasted ring/cylinder is to blame, and a valve wouldn't take much. It's possible the lifters are pumped up, but you've bled them a couple times and they don't look odd to me.

MissSpyderGST · May 9, 2019

I know I have a vacuum leak for sure, just because at idle my reading is 9, when it should be between 14 and 16 inHg, since its cammed. I am actually about to go back out there before work and rotate the engine by hand and keep checking on the activity of the lifers, since I already took the PCV valve off and the valve cover is just sitting on the head currently. I'l have to come up with a rig to put my phone there to record it moving so I can watch it and see what happens.Otherwise, I'm moving on to another test before I make my final decision. I know i could do a wet compression test now, leakdown no. I dont know how to do that type of test, yet.

MissSpyderGST · May 9, 2019

I took a video, but I cant upload it. I turned the crank by hand and watched the cam gears make 5 full rotations, and the lifters never changed their position like the others did (intake). I have to admit though, my arms feel like they are about to fall off LOL

.

Mello · May 9, 2019

If you're saying that the lifters on cylinder 1 are not moving (up & down) like on the other cylinders than there is a problem with something with the cams/valve train. They should all be going up and down (open & close) as the motor rotates through the different stroke cycles; intake, compression, power , exhaust.

DSMPT · May 9, 2019

ThunderChild said:
While a hg leak is possible, you should still have some compression, unless it's completely blown out, in which case you have coolant or oil leaking back into the combustion chamber to some level. Makes me feel like a slightly bent valve or wasted ring/cylinder is to blame, and a valve wouldn't take much. It's possible the lifters are pumped up, but you've bled them a couple times and they don't look odd to me.

I have seen some zero compression case after installing a new MLS head gasket. The issue was just the flatness of head as common, but it was way off of the spec, was not possible to resurface..
Everyone has already mentioned about open/bent valves, so I just mentioned another possibility.

1990TSIAWDTALON · May 9, 2019

I'm leaning towards 1 or more bent valves on this. It takes very LITTLE to bend these little stems, I bent some rotating the cam by hand when the lifters where pumped up and it was very hard to tell they were hurt unless you spun them in a drill. Just my .02¢

MissSpyderGST · May 9, 2019

Yeah I'm seriously leaning towards the intake #4 lifters got pumped up, since they NEVER moved during all the rotations I could muster the strength for, compared to the others. Every single lifter moved on those rotations except those two. I even examined the exhaust side lifters, and those moved great. So it would seem as though the lifters weren't bled enough, like I thought they were, and the valves may have slightly bent. I wish and hope they aren't bent, but that's HIGHLY unlikely.

ThunderChild · May 9, 2019

DSMPT said:
I have seen some zero compression case after installing a new MLS head gasket. The issue was just the flatness of head as common, but it was way off of the spec, was not possible to resurface..
Everyone has already mentioned about open/bent valves, so I just mentioned another possibility.

Totally understandable and a valid option, I just hadn't run into a situation that fit that criteria, that head/block surface must've been completely boned.

Yea I'm gonna agree bent valves seem most likely since you're getting no compression of #4 lifters, that's a bummer. Only one thing left to do, yank the head and hope it didn't crack guides or damage pistons badly. If you need some stock valves lmk, I have several sets.

Hickory-NC-2Ggsx · May 9, 2019

Do a leak down test that will tell you where its leaking at too. :hellyeah:

MissSpyderGST · May 9, 2019

I definitely appreciate that! I'm wondering if re bleeding them will work? I bought them used from someone off the DSM Classifieds on Facebook. My stock ones, I still have. They were beginning to tick which is why I went to the revised ones. I hope there's no damage to the pistons, though my dad really wants to upgrade them to some Weiscos....

1990TSIAWDTALON · May 9, 2019

Pistons should be fine. Mine took a hit at 3k...bent every last one of them. I will be popping the slugs out to make sure the rings still rotate freely in the lands but that problem came from a loose balancer bolt.....and I was going to a car show

MissSpyderGST · May 9, 2019

Oh no!!! That sucks! Sorry to hear that. I'm pretty sure mine will be fine. I'll probably take the head to a machine shop, honestly. Get them to do it this time around LOL

. But since I'm pretty sure I know I've got at least 1 bent valve, should I upgrade my valves or stick with OEM? One day I would like to have basically an Evo build. Nothing more.

MissSpyderGST · May 9, 2019

ThunderChild said:
If you need some stock valves lmk, I have several sets.

I totally had a blonde moment... for some reason, I thought you said you had stock lifters hahaha... sorry LOL

. But I'm totally interested, though, if they are bent. I dont wanna get them unless I know for a fact LOL

. I should just be able to relap them to my head and stick them in, right? Or would I still need to go to a machine shop?

ThunderChild · May 9, 2019

Agree with @1990TSIAWDTALON , I'm still running stock pistons that I cleaned up after the PO unceremoniously clashed pistons-to-valve at 5500rpm, so he said.

As for valves, I don't see a reason to put fancy valves in an otherwise mostly stock head. Save valves for oversized or when you get a ported head and are really pushing the limits flow-wise. Stock heads/valves can get you quite far IMHO.

ThunderChild · May 9, 2019

MissSpyderGST said:
I totally had a blonde moment... for some reason, I thought you said you had stock lifters hahaha... sorry . But I'm totally interested, though, if they are bent. I dont wanna get them unless I know for a fact . I should just be able to relap them to my head and stick them in, right? Or would I still need to go to a machine shop?

Should be able to lap them in no problem, long as the guides aren't cracked then it should be fine. pm me and lmk what you find once you pull the head and I'll let you know what I've got.

MissSpyderGST · May 10, 2019

Sounds great! I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me out. I'll definitely let you guys know the problems, and the fixes once I'm going through it. Just so others can see and learn from my mistakes and so on. You guys rock!

Havoch · May 10, 2019

MissSpyderGST said:
Sounds great! I really appreciate you all taking the time to help me out. I'll definitely let you guys know the problems, and the fixes once I'm going through it. Just so others can see and learn from my mistakes and so on. You guys rock!

So, i think i am going to revive the threads that i come across during my "search" for answers. If the answers are apparent great but let's all try to conclude these posts with something to clarify what worked, what caused the problem, how you figured it out, maybe even a thank you to the ones who actually guided you in the right direction.

First revival.
Please post your results.

MissSpyderGST · May 10, 2019

That's the plan, actually.... I work full time and have two kids, three if you count my husband. I cant get out there and work on my car as quickly as some of you can. As I stated before, i will definitely post my results, pictures, etc throughout this shindig... so you'll receive an update as well.

ThunderChild · May 10, 2019

We're all busy, just do whatever works for you. Long as there's an update so the thread doesn't dead-end it's all good :thumb:

MissSpyderGST · Nov 3, 2019

Okay guys, I'm here to report that the issue has been resolved. When I did the cold compression test, cylinder 4 was a 0. It now reads a 130. I listened to myself for once, and I decided to take those two intake lifters out and soak them in diesel overnight. Cleaning them out to the best of my abilities. I guess these two didn't get bled fully, because there was sludge and carbon in both. As a matter of fact, when I took the rocker arm (I followed the vfaq on lifter install) out, a chunk of carbon flew into my hair! So I knew that may have had some blame. Once I rebled and primed them, I stuck them in and assembled my car back together today and before cranking it up, decided to do the compression test instead. I'd rather see the numbers anyway to know where I stand. All cylinders are looking excellent. I haven't cranked it up and ran it yet, because I need to get two more spark plugs, but if the numbers are that good for a dry test, I'm pretty pleased with the results. Thank you guys for your help! Sorry for the almost 6 month delay in reply. Life happens. ‍

Havoch · Nov 4, 2019

No need for apologies, it is a rare treat that someone actually posts the final results of all the detective work and questions asked. I can't even count how many times i've looked up a thread that is 4 or more pages long and then "poof" the OP dissapears and no one ever finds out what the real issues were or how they were solved! I say thank you MissSpyder!

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