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2G Car doesn’t start. Need help

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DSMNewGuy

Proven Member
30
9
Jul 25, 2018
Lisbon, Europe
Hello guys, New Guy here,
Not sure it’s the right place to post this or if this is answered somewhere so excuse me but I’m fairly new to the DSM scene and I’ve looked for weeks through search and topic by topic in the forum and couldn’t find a solution. I’ll try to relay as much info as I can and will post photos later.

Little intro: I have a 2G that was broken so I bought a 1G and I’m trying to make a swap to get mine working.

That isn’t my problem though. I’ve been working on a 2G of a friend for a few weeks now and the car won’t start properly. Said friend has been doing a full restoration for the past year and he had the engine rebuilt. Since he stopped the car to do such rebuild it didn’t work anymore (about half a year without working). Finally maybe a month ago me and a cousin managed to get the car started using a 1G CAS to bypass the CPS. Car ran but was running funny so we checked timing and we’re thankful for all the info in the forum because we managed to get it to work well (it works perfectly for a bit and then stutters a little bit, doesn’t die though), but only with my 1G CAS. Doing a little more wiring we managed to get the CPS working alongside the 1G CAS but as soon as we try to assemble the 2G CAS the car will either not start or start for a few seconds, engine light turns off, then on, and then it dies again. Sometimes the engine light doesn’t even turn off and after like 5 seconds it’s dead again.
If we put the 1G CAS though, it works.

My friend has bought new CPS and new CAS (2G) and it will not work. (Old CPS broke, se he got new one, old CAS didn’t work so he got it new also)

At this point we’ve tried everything we could put our hands on: timing, CAS (my CAS and his old and new CAS), firing order.

Anything we can try next? I confess I like these challenges but at this point I just want to help this friend getting his baby running again. Any help is appreciated. Thank you guys.
 
i am sure everyone is needing more info. What ECU, what engine, all the specifics.
The more info on the vehicle in question, the better. Sorry, I am a 1g guy so I am not much help since I don't use a crank position sensor.
 
Thank you Marty, tbh you already helped because now I know what I should go look for to give the right information. I’ll go look better into the specifics and will update soon. Thank you again.
 
That's what the forum is all about Mike.....HELP. :thumb:
Never a problem, ever.
Marty
 
Hello again everyone, sorry for not getting this following information about the car in question in the first message of the post but I was not aware of the time limit for the editing of the messages.

So about my friend’s car: It’s a 2G, registered in 1997 but after contacting the brand it was told that it was built in 1996. It’s a 7 bolt block with the CPS, and respective 2G head with the CAS being the one that is shaped in a triangular form. For the ECU I didn’t find any post that could give me the information to distinguish between different ECUs, if someone could link that I will most gladly update this thread with the proper information. The car is all stock and has really zero mods in it so the ECU would be the original of a European 2G from 1996 I would guess.
The CAS that we manage to use to make the car run came from a Plymouth Laser RS from 1992. 6 bolt block (the one I will use in my Eclipse) and the round, old CAS. This 1G CAS will get the car running either working on its own or along the CPS from the 7 bolt block. However the 2G CAS will not work. It will either not start, start then not shut engine light off and die, or start engine light goes off then on again and dies after 5-7 seconds. We have tried between 3 different sensors: OEM from friend’s car, OEM from my car, and brand new from store. None of them work properly.

Hope this information gives you guys more to work with and if anything else is needed please just say and I’ll do my best to get it within my range because the car is not with me so it’s a little bit harder but I’ll manage. All the help is welcome, thank you guys
 
If you want a copy of the
Euro market 1996-1998 2g factory service manuals with electrical and year change supplements.
You can download it HERE



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The 1g cas simulates both your cam and crank sensor signals so if you're running the 1g Cas you can't also have the crank sensor plugged in. Did you rotate your engine to TDC before inserting the 1g CAS? Did you also make sure the 1g cas wasn't 180 degrees out? Those are both conditions that would keep the car from starting.
 
The 1g cas simulates both your cam and crank sensor signals so if you're running the 1g Cas you can't also have the crank sensor plugged in. Did you rotate your engine to TDC before inserting the 1g CAS? Did you also make sure the 1g cas wasn't 180 degrees out? Those are both conditions that would keep the car from starting.

We installed the 1G CAS and that was the one that worked. As for the engine being TDC I am almost positive that it was but let me just check what that is and I’ll say if it was or not brother.
As far as getting the 1G CAS working alongside the CPS, we did it by really wiring it out. On the first try we wired the 1G CAS on both harnesses just like it’s supposed to when doing a 1G to 2G swap. Second try we wired the 1G CAS to the CAS harness and left the CPS working on its own harness. We suppose they were working alongside.

The real problem is with the 2G CAS that will not work no matter what.

Anyways I hope I was clear trying to explain all this. Thank you for your input brother
 
If you are using a 1g CAS you do not need to run a CPS. If you are going to use the CPS and the CAS first thing you need to do is check for spark and make sure you have spark on all 4 cylinders with the CPS and the CAS installed?
 
If you are using a 1g CAS you do not need to run a CPS. If you are going to use the CPS and the CAS first thing you need to do is check for spark and make sure you have spark on all 4 cylinders with the CPS and the CAS installed?

You’re indeed right when you say the 1G CAS doesn’t need to use the CPS we did it just to test if the CPS was working or not. Now, not sure if the test was successful or not since it was the 1G CAS. Sorry I didn’t specify that earlier.

As for the spark we didn’t check because since the engine ran perfectly with the 1G CAS installed we assumed we would have spark with the 2G CAS by default. Could the 2G CAS affect that even when it works with the 1G CAS?
 
Run the 1g CAS.
 
Yes it should. Or he could just buy a used 1g CAS and be done is all I was saying. Is it right, no. Does it work, apparently. You can chase that thing around for along time, trying to figure out this old wiring, is why I am saying that. I'd get it running and chase that thing later, but both of my cars are down so I would love for my problem to just be a CAS or CPS problem, LOL.
Good luck, maybe the DSM gods will give you a sign as to why it is throwing a fit with the correct parts or one of us can think of that ONE last thing that hasn't been noticed yet! :thumb:
 
You’re indeed right when you say the 1G CAS doesn’t need to use the CPS we did it just to test if the CPS was working or not. Now, not sure if the test was successful or not since it was the 1G CAS. Sorry I didn’t specify that earlier.

As for the spark we didn’t check because since the engine ran perfectly with the 1G CAS installed we assumed we would have spark with the 2G CAS by default. Could the 2G CAS affect that even when it works with the 1G CAS?

The 2g has a little metal cap at the end of the CAS it looks like a triangle. When you remove those bolts there is a little cup inside of it with a bolt right through the center. Make sure it was installed properly I believe it can be installed incorrectly because one side is larger than the other. There should be two notches on the cam the little cup sits inside of remove the bolt and try it in the other position. That could throw off your timing making the cylinders fire at the wrong time which is causing your car to shut off.
 
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The 2g has a little metal cap at the end of the CAS it looks like a triangle. When you remove those bolts there is a little cup inside of it with a bolt right through the center. Make sure it was installed properly I believe it can be installed incorrectly because one side is larger than the other. There should be two notches on the cam the little cup sits inside of remove the bolt and try it in the other position. That could throw off your timing making the cylinders fire at the wrong time which is causing your car to shut off.

That is one of the things we’ve already tried. In the right position, it starts and shuts off right away, in the wrong position it doesn’t even start. We also tried to change the firing order but didn’t work either. At first when the engine ran like crap it was (we suppose) because of bad timing. We adjusted the timing belt and now it runs well, with the 1G CAS only though. 2G CAS still won’t run.
Next time we’re with the car we’ll be checking what dustyboner sent in that early post
 
Guys thank you so much for the replies so far. As soon as I'm with the car again I'll be trying all the stuff you guys sugested and will get back to this thread. hopefully soon. Thank you so much for the help so far everyone.
 
So, I'll admit that this is a long shot here, but seeing as we've already covered all of the usual suspects for this...
Is there any chance the 2g CAS is on upside down/backwards? If so, the fins on the cam gear's reluctor wheel don't pass through the sensor and you get no signal (along with giving you no safe path for the wires). I just helped a local guy here who had it in that way and obviously got no spark.
 
Guys thank you so much for the replies so far. As soon as I'm with the car again I'll be trying all the stuff you guys sugested and will get back to this thread. hopefully soon. Thank you so much for the help so far everyone.

Make sure to keep us updated if you end up figuring out what the problem is. I would like to know what the outcome is at the end.
 
So, I'll admit that this is a long shot here, but seeing as we've already covered all of the usual suspects for this...
Is there any chance the 2g CAS is on upside down/backwards? If so, the fins on the cam gear's reluctor wheel don't pass through the sensor and you get no signal (along with giving you no safe path for the wires). I just helped a local guy here who had it in that way and obviously got no spark.

The CAS case seems to be correctly placed. As for the rotating piece inside, we already tried to run it the both ways its fits so I don't think the problem is assembly related. Won't put that option off the table though.

This image is not mine, it's actually from another thread but that's how the case is mounted in the car I'm working on.
Same for the second image. These show how we mounted them.
 

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Make sure to keep us updated if you end up figuring out what the problem is. I would like to know what the outcome is at the end.

Will do for sure brother. As soon as we get to work on the car again and make some progress I'll leave the details here so we can keep discussing/check how it was solved.

Thank you so much so far to all that responded.
 
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