Tanro said:

Quoted for Truth.

I don't get it. I mean when I was 19, almost a decade a go, and didnt know a damn thing, that was all I cared about.

But I have lived and driven a lot of cars, as fast as my limit of skill and daring would allow. 300zx Nismo, 300zx TT, 3000gt vr4, FC RX7 (Turbo-II and GXL), Saturn Ion Redline, Saturn SC2, both with and without a turbo kit. Couple Fast Chevy Pickups, Couple miatas, turbo and non. The best cars where always the ones that were properly sorted in most respects and never the ones with a big ol turbo that makes 500whp all right at the top of the rev range.

Honestly, some of the best fun I've had was in my NA Miata or a friend's s2000. Those things dont have a whole bunch of power, and they were both begging for a turbo. But damn where they both fun.

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Agreed. A couple of months ago I picked up a 2001 Honda S2000 as a daily driver, and I have never, ever had more fun in a car. With stupid power it just wouldn't be the same; my Evo, despite its power, is miserable to drive in comparison. I couldn't imagine if it had a peaky turbo, I would probably never use it. You can WOT a 500hp car for what, 4 seconds before breaking laws? I'd take a broad 350whp with a lighter clutch over a peaky 500whp any day now.

FWIW, this is a very, very well set up Evo race car with an EFR7670:



That is extremely usable power: if you wanted 650whp from any turbo, you simply cannot beat that power curve. You buy an EFR because it's rock & rolling at, or before 4000 RPM, and making numbers that stock frame can't. Compare that to an FP Black and you'll see where you're spending the money.

So far I've bought 2 EFR 7670 (one IWG, one EWG) both in excellent condition, for $1000 or less (gotta be patient). There aren't many other ball bearing turbos in that range, let alone something that's such high quality.

Not everybody has 3k to drop on a more efficient turbo setup.

Wife: Want to go out to eat tonight?
DSMer: No, we need to save money like a responsible adult.
Wife: How much was your turbo?
DSMer-3k, but it spools faster.

^

donniekak said:

The efr turbos come in a range of sizes. But, as mentioned above spending thousands on a 450hp turbo setup isn't a real good idea for a dsm with all the bolt on options.

To the op's original plan, downsize from the 50trim. Try a dsm76. It'll make 50-75more hp than the 50 trim when pushed, and probably spool a good deal quicker.

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Well said, i am aware there are larger sizes, which is where i find the money worth while, but even then i really like my gen2 6466

If there is a demand for a production manifold that will work with the EFR I'll take that on but i doubt enough people would jump on it, custom manifolds run 1,000+ on top of your what ever $$$$ turbo, plus wastegates plus oil drain and feed, dump tubes and downpipe... Adds up. Most dsmers are cheap. Even then usually one would go to a production t3 and a 35R+ for the money

Spool is subjective to the application of use... I personally dont find a 40psi at 5500-9k bad on the street at all

Spoke with a vendor and got a good look at one at the shootout this weekend. They are not as long as I initially thought. He said they just set up efrs for evos as mentioned prior because that's where the paying customers are. Sine the b1 frame comes in t 25 he didn't think set up would be very difficult on a dsm and said the transient boost response of these turbos is unrivalled. He was explaining how the medium framed 7163 on their test evo built boost the same if not faster then the stock 9 turbo previously on the car. They still stir my interest even though logically a 68hta should do what I want it to do. I guess I never really stated that I'm interested in a max effort car of sorts. A car that can handle itself around a tight auto x course but still lay down a mid 11 second quarter mile. I could be going about this all wrong as I probably should be looking at a stroker but my dsm has been wonderfully reliable for the past 10 years so I worry about longevity with a stroker.

Zombie bumpppppp.....

Archer - another thing to keep in mind if you're considering making anything for these turbos (I'm interested in running one on a DSM and don't care how much it costs)..... is that the flanges that BW uses for v-band on these turbos are not like other v-bands you can get. You have to buy them from BW. When I turbo'd my lexus last year I had to get a custom adapter made to go from t4 to the BW v-band. The guy that made it had to get ahold of full-race and order the BW flange from them to make it for me. In the end it worked out great but there was no generic v-band that was going to work.

I wish someone made a DSM manifold that was cast and didn't have a DSM flange on it.

Someone does make a cast manifold but I don't know that I would trust it, since it's from Flebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/REV9-DSM-E...=item214a91a583:g:2e0AAOSwuvtbzktr:rk:10:pf:0

bling5tatus said:

Zombie bumpppppp.....

Archer - another thing to keep in mind if you're considering making anything for these turbos (I'm interested in running one on a DSM and don't care how much it costs)..... is that the flanges that BW uses for v-band on these turbos are not like other v-bands you can get. You have to buy them from BW. When I turbo'd my lexus last year I had to get a custom adapter made to go from t4 to the BW v-band. The guy that made it had to get ahold of full-race and order the BW flange from them to make it for me. In the end it worked out great but there was no generic v-band that was going to work.

I wish someone made a DSM manifold that was cast and didn't have a DSM flange on it.

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Vibrant is starting to offer the flanges :
https://vibrantperformance.com/cata...=3797&osCsid=ac07dee48e10d1524904d49b40fbfbba

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Someone does make a cast manifold but I don't know that I would trust it, since it's from Flebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/REV9-DSM-E...=item214a91a583:g:2e0AAOSwuvtbzktr:rk:10:pf:0

Click to expand...

We have always liked the bang for the buck of the cast T3 manifold, especially the ERL and Turbonetics. The Rev9 costs even less than the turbonetics, but it's important to know that even though it is essentially a "copy," it is a good ways off from clearing the same turbos as the Turbonetics does (which already requires the turbine housing to be ground down a bit for example on an HY35). Placement is similar but definitely not the same.
The collector was made from an oddly shaped two peice core that is somewhat of a mess honestly (and we aren't just being picky). Core shift was to the point where the exhaust gasket would have a tough time sealing the ports with any more.
I guess it's to be expected of a $100 manifold but we were under the assumption it was essentially a turbonetics without the "T."


EFR's are far outnumbered by other turbo options for DSMs but are much more prevalent in the road race side of things. Their benefits in rotational inertia/transient response and overall efficiency don't fit what most DSM owners are looking for/at- price and lbs/min.

bling5tatus said:

Zombie bumpppppp.....

Archer - another thing to keep in mind if you're considering making anything for these turbos (I'm interested in running one on a DSM and don't care how much it costs)..... is that the flanges that BW uses for v-band on these turbos are not like other v-bands you can get. You have to buy them from BW. When I turbo'd my lexus last year I had to get a custom adapter made to go from t4 to the BW v-band. The guy that made it had to get ahold of full-race and order the BW flange from them to make it for me. In the end it worked out great but there was no generic v-band that was going to work.

I wish someone made a DSM manifold that was cast and didn't have a DSM flange on it.

Click to expand...

It’s called a “marmon” flange. Has a radius instead of a flat sealing surface, if you take your housing to someone with a lathe they can flatten that radius and then a generic vband would work

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Someone does make a cast manifold but I don't know that I would trust it, since it's from Flebay...
https://www.ebay.com/itm/REV9-DSM-E...=item214a91a583:g:2e0AAOSwuvtbzktr:rk:10:pf:0

Click to expand...

I guess I meant "good" cast manifolds. The only ones I know of are ERL and FP. I love the FP manifold and think it's perfect, except it only fits DSM flanged turbos. I wish the EXACT design was available with different flange options.

Thank you for the info guys. I'd run an EFR on my Talon because I never use it for drag racing and don't intend to drag race it in the future either.

MorrisonFab said:

We have always liked the bang for the buck of the cast T3 manifold, especially the ERL and Turbonetics. The Rev9 costs even less than the turbonetics, but it's important to know that even though it is essentially a "copy," it is a good ways off from clearing the same turbos as the Turbonetics does (which already requires the turbine housing to be ground down a bit for example on an HY35). Placement is similar but definitely not the same.
The collector was made from an oddly shaped two peice core that is somewhat of a mess honestly (and we aren't just being picky). Core shift was to the point where the exhaust gasket would have a tough time sealing the ports with any more.
I guess it's to be expected of a $100 manifold but we were under the assumption it was essentially a turbonetics without the "T.".

Click to expand...

As one of the top curators of the treadstonesque manifold and open t3 holset combo, I can say I agree 100%. I can't even remember what copy I have, probably a godspeed, and I assume it's the same as the Rev9. It's a turd as far as port shape and all that goes. The worst of it for me was how much core shift it had. The flange bolt pattern isn't even close to lining up with the ports. It looks like the turbine flange bolt holes are just drilled in the wrong spot. If they just moved them to center them up on the hole the housing/block clearance issues would be much better.

I ran it "as is" for a long time, but always wanted to make it better. In search of more power I ended up welding/redrilling the head flange holes, and then making a plate and some stuff to fill up the front have of the turbine flange and get it to line up with the bolt holes better. I don't know what that manifold was made of but it welded about like it was made out of cement. It has to be about the highest carbon cast iron I've ever seen. Even after all that I don't think it helped at all.

But in the end, it's a shitpile, I ran it for like 6 years, a million street miles, a million passes, and it didn't crack. I ended up running 9's using it on a HE351.