Kiggly billet Saddle in AWD?

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 24, 2019

Hi, is there a need for this in a 600ish HP/TQ AWD Car? I can't find any info on when the stock piece breaks with AWD, and I'm not clear if the additional grip from AWD adds stress which would make it break sooner or if because the power is dispersed to 4 wheels instead of 2 it decreases stress making it unlikely to be needed.

About to build the trans so if I should do it I'd rather do it now than down the road. But if it's not needed I'd like to save the $$

Thanks!

Mello · Jan 24, 2019

Are you reffering to the 4g63 girdle? Do you have a 6-bolt swapped motor? The girdle is only for 6-bolts or G4CS blocks. Kiggly Recommended in all builds above 350hp.

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 24, 2019

Mello said:
Are you reffering to the 4g63 girdle? Do you have a 6-bolt swapped motor? The girdle is only for 6-bolts or G4CS blocks. Kiggly Recommended in all builds above 350hp.

Sorry no, I'm talking about this piece for the diff: https://kigglyracing.com/f4a33-w4a33-billet-differential-support-saddle.html
Kiggly has only seen FWD cars with slicks larger than 28" break these and because I don't fully understand how AWD vs FWD would change the stress on this part I don't know if I should put it in my trans as a precaution should I decide to run slicks on it at some time. If AWD puts additional stress then these could bread before a 28" slick, if AWD puts less stress on this piece then it probably only impacts FWD cars. Which would make sense because I can't find any information on the topic specific to AWD applications. But I wanted to make the thread so that if anyone else has the question they can find it rather than just emailing kiggly

OH91awd · Jan 24, 2019

how much power are you trying to make? the awd normally doesnt need them until the 4 digit range on a slick. added insurance never hurt though

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 24, 2019

OH91awd said:
how much power are you trying to make? the awd normally doesnt need them until the 4 digit range on a slick. added insurance never hurt though

I'm hoping to hit 500 to the wheels in my setup initially. Like most of us here I think we have a lot of history behind our builds. I'll skip most of that, I have a motor that I built about 4 years ago and only put a few hundred miles on, I installed a Kiggly SFI flexplate on and didn't read the portion about not using both washers and ruined my pump. I had the trans fixed by Buschur but then never put it back together now it's got too much rust so I picked up a 95 TSI AWD with a bad motor but solid body. Build is a DOHC 4g64 block with wiseco pistons, eagle rods, stage 1 head, 272 cams, PTB 300-5032 with supporting fuel mods and ECMLink v3. I'm not sure if I can get there with this turbo, I may have to upgrade. But assuming that I have traction with AWD I may find that this setup is plenty fast enough. At the end of the day driving experience is king for me. But your feedback is exactly what I was looking for. I don't expect I'll ever push into 1000+ hp on this car so it's unlikely that I would ever need this. Also as you stated though if I can afford it, it certainly won't hurt anything.

OH91awd · Jan 24, 2019

mikejsmith1985 said:
I'm hoping to hit 500 to the wheels in my setup initially. Like most of us here I think we have a lot of history behind our builds. I'll skip most of that, I have a motor that I built about 4 years ago and only put a few hundred miles on, I installed a Kiggly SFI flexplate on and didn't read the portion about not using both washers and ruined my pump. I had the trans fixed by Buschur but then never put it back together now it's got too much rust so I picked up a 95 TSI AWD with a bad motor but solid body. Build is a DOHC 4g64 block with wiseco pistons, eagle rods, stage 1 head, 272 cams, PTB 300-5032 with supporting fuel mods and ECMLink v3. I'm not sure if I can get there with this turbo, I may have to upgrade. But assuming that I have traction with AWD I may find that this setup is plenty fast enough. At the end of the day driving experience is king for me. But your feedback is exactly what I was looking for. I don't expect I'll ever push into 1000+ hp on this car so it's unlikely that I would ever need this. Also as you stated though if I can afford it, it certainly won't hurt anything.

thatll be tough with that turbo. im trying to get into the low 9s with my car and i dont think id ever "need" the saddle but i may add one just for extra insurance once i build my spare trans. ill but the billet transfer gears before the saddle though.

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 24, 2019

OH91awd said:
thatll be tough with that turbo. im trying to get into the low 9s with my car and i dont think id ever "need" the saddle but i may add one just for extra insurance once i build my spare trans. ill but the billet transfer gears before the saddle though.

9s are so fast! is your car a dedicated track car or does it see a lot of time on the street?
I know 500 will be pushing that turbo, I think it's rated for 460, but I was hoping with the 2.4 I could push it a bit further than the 2.0. Ultimately if I can run mid-high 10's in this I'll probably be done regardless of what power it makes, hoping to get it on the road and start tuning by the end of March.

1990TSIAWDTALON · Jan 24, 2019

mikejsmith1985 said:
I installed a Kiggly SFI flexplate on and didn't read the portion about not using both washers and ruined my pump. I had the trans fixed by Buschur

Not to hijack a thread, but what is the proper way to use the kiggly flexplate? I got mine used, so no special directions.

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 24, 2019

1990TSIAWDTALON said:
Not to hijack a thread, but what is the proper way to use the kiggly flexplate? I got mine used, so no special directions.

No problem: this is good info to have! See link to PDF from Kiggly
http://kigglyracing.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/Kiggly Racing Flexplate Install.pdf

OH91awd · Jan 24, 2019

mikejsmith1985 said:
9s are so fast! is your car a dedicated track car or does it see a lot of time on the street?
I know 500 will be pushing that turbo, I think it's rated for 460, but I was hoping with the 2.4 I could push it a bit further than the 2.0. Ultimately if I can run mid-high 10's in this I'll probably be done regardless of what power it makes, hoping to get it on the road and start tuning by the end of March.

its a street car (full exhaust, dot tire, all the glass, tagged and insured)

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 24, 2019

OH91awd said:
its a street car (full exhaust, dot tire, all the glass, tagged and insured)

That’s a serious street car! Have you welded your center diff?

OH91awd · Jan 24, 2019

mikejsmith1985 said:
That’s a serious street car! Have you welded your center diff?

yea its a welded center.

twicks69 · Jan 25, 2019

You do not need that component. Focus on a rebuilt trans with a Kiggly 5 friction front clutch, welded center diff, trans lab shift kit, rebuild with alto/red Eagle kit or Transtar Borg Warner kit, and some OEM components like reverse kickdown band, new reverse sun shell (splines wear down, or glazing/warping happens to shell), better trans cooler setup, stock open front diff or a quaife QDH8B diff, and you should be good.

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 25, 2019

twicks69 said:
You do not need that component. Focus on a rebuilt trans with a Kiggly 5 friction front clutch, welded center diff, trans lab shift kit, rebuild with alto/red Eagle kit or Transtar Borg Warner kit, and some OEM components like reverse kickdown band, new reverse sun shell (splines wear down, or glazing/warping happens to shell), better trans cooler setup, stock open front diff or a quaife QDH8B diff, and you should be good.

Thanks for the tips, planning to go with transtar soft parts, IPT end clutches, Kiggly front clutches. My FWD trans was an IPT job with quaife but was done back in like 03. It only has about 15k miles on it though. So good to have the tips about the extra components. Is OEM a “must” or would a borgwarner reverse kickdown be ok? I ask because OEM didn’t come up in my quick search. I’ll continue searching after this post though.

twicks69 · Jan 26, 2019

The borg Warner or Alto kickdown band is fine.
Pay close attention to the splines on the reverse sun shell. Most aftermarket ones like from transtar are refurbished ones and I have had several with worn out splines on "new" parts.

Personally the end clutch friction and steels from Alto or Borg Warner are fine, paying extra for the parts from IPT really wont do much, as you should not be doing pulls ever in overdrive as you will nuke them or snap off the end of the input shaft that holds the end clutch basket.

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 26, 2019

Thanks again for the feedback, I just noticed your TMZPerformance. I thought all you guys did was manuals, I've learned even more today

4gsx63 · Jan 26, 2019

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You probably don’t need it yet. I would do the billet transfer gears first follow by billet front and rear. Inspect your oem saddle and pay attention to the wear pattern.

I upgraded mine not because I need it yet. It’s because I’m doing a refresh along with other billet parts upgrades. While everything is apart, I figured I would throw it in to eliminate one of the weak link.

Attached pic showed the condition mine was in after 3-4 years of racing in the low-mid 9s street car. I think the oem cast saddle flex under high stress/load and caused uneven wear pattern. I plan to add more power and launch harder and it will give me the peace of mind.

Good luck!

twicks69 · Jan 29, 2019

I have been building autos too for about 8 years. The advancements in available aftermarket parts for them has really increased in the last 5 years with Kevin and Jeff Bush doing most of the parts, making it able to be pushed well into the bottom 7s.

mikejsmith1985 · Jan 31, 2019

Just wanted to say thank you again to TMZ and all of you who chimed in to help me figure out what I needed to know. I've got all the parts for my trans ordered and will be rebuilding first week of March!

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