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Mitsubishiown

10+ Year Contributor
194
17
Feb 11, 2012
Davison, Michigan
My current goals are to build an engine between 600-700hp that will be mainly a drag car but occasionally driven on the street so I am trying to make sure the build will last if driven around town a little bit. After a lot of researching and getting help from multiple members here is what I'm thinking. I plan on running E-85. Also plan on running an HX40 but not positive on this yet. My main question is determining what machine work I should have done? I plan on having Whalens speed build the engine and do the machine work. Any help is much appreciated!

7 bolt head:
ITM Revised 3g lifters
Kelford 272/272 - 6 bolt because I'll be using 1g CAS
Kiggly high pressure beehive springs and titanium retainers
Manley Race Series Valves - Standard Size
ARP L19 6 bolt head studs

6 bolt shortblock:
Kiggly main girdle
ARP main studs
ACL tri-metal bearings - rod/main
Manley Pro Series Turbo Tuff I beam
Wiseco 10.5:1 HD pistons
Fel-pro composite head gasket

Fuel Delivery:
Magnus fuel rail (got one cheap)
Walbro 525 in-tank fuel pump
FIC 2150 Hi-Z injectors (need to research the resistor pack delete and the plug/play option)
-8an fuel feed
-6an fuel return
 
I would probably lose the Wiseco pistons in favor of something nicer, there are too many options out there not to.
 
You should be asking Whalen.

I am going to be sending them my current plan and discussing it with them but I figured I would ask people on here to see if there is additional advice that I haven't found on this forum. Mainly what machining needs to be done. From what I have found this is essentially standard.

"* Bore and hone cylinders using torque plate / Set proper ring gap
* Align bore and hone block crank seats and rod ends with rod caps properly torqued
* Flat deck block AND head
* Polish crank journals (if not damaged beyond useful spec)
* Nitrite treat crank journals to restore hardness
* Check/resurface oil pan flange, oil pump flange, rear seal flange, etc.
* Hot tank the block, head, etc. to remove sludge and open oil passages"
 
Sounds like you have a really nice build your going with! I recently now run a Whalen speed block and I love the awesome quality work they do! Just haven't drove the car much since due to old turbo going bad and the weather. Everything you mentioned above and more was on my paperwork.
 
Sounds like you have a really nice build your going with! I recently now run a Whalen speed block and I love the awesome quality work they do! Just haven't drove the car much since due to old turbo going bad and the weather. Everything you mentioned above and more was on my paperwork.

Thank you for the response, good to hear from someone who has used them. I sent them an email yesterday so hopefully I’ll be able to get started on the engine soon and maybe get this car running this summer. I was looking at their v1 head but I’m not sure what I’m going to do quite yet.
 
No problem! Nice it's my third build and my other 2 were stock with leaks so I can't wait to get some driving in on it. Ya when I purchased my block off a member on here he also had their head but I didn't need it so we came upon an agreement. I know the feeling. I now run a fully built boostin performance 1g head with gsc 274s.
 
Don't go b with the high compression. Drop it down to 8.5 or 9.0.

make the power with boost, the high compression makes it a very finikky beast.
 
No problem! Nice it's my third build and my other 2 were stock with leaks so I can't wait to get some driving in on it. Ya when I purchased my block off a member on here he also had their head but I didn't need it so we came upon an agreement. I know the feeling. I now run a fully built boostin performance 1g head with gsc 274s.

I just spoke with Whalen and they are recommending the Kelford 276 so I think I am going to go with that and they also recommended I stick with the 7 bolt shortblock but said I could do the 6 if I really want to. So not entirely sure what I am going to do with that yet.

For the entire longblock build they quoted 6k and thats without me bringing in a core so I don't think thats terrible. Obviously a lot of money but about what I expected.

Don't go b with the high compression. Drop it down to 8.5 or 9.0.

make the power with boost, the high compression makes it a very finikky beast.

Alright I will talk with them about that, on the invoice it didn't have the compression rate listed. Hoping to get this done within the next couple months.
 
I just spoke with Whalen and they are recommending the Kelford 276 so I think I am going to go with that and they also recommended I stick with the 7 bolt shortblock but said I could do the 6 if I really want to. So not entirely sure what I am going to do with that yet.

For the entire longblock build they quoted 6k and thats without me bringing in a core so I don't think thats terrible. Obviously a lot of money but about what I expected.

That's awesome! Kelford cams are a great too.
Yep the 6 or 7 bolt can be a tough choice depending on what year 7 bolt you would go with. What I do do reduce wear on things like crank bearings was disconnected my clutch signal. That way my car can be started without pushing my aftermarket heavy clutch in. Definitely is a lot of money but worth it in a long run and done the correct way too.
 

I have an auto so not sure if there is something similar I could do for that. I have a few things to figure out for tuning now although I don't plan on doing that myself. Need to decide if I am going speed density or a GM Maf probably going to talk to Whalen about that tomorrow to see what they would prefer to tune with. I would really like to do as much of the work as I can myself but I really don't feel its the best idea for me to attempt to tune an engine that I am spending this much money on. I plan on installing it and I am not even sure if thats a good idea but have to learn somehow.
 
Oh my bad I just now seen that, well then that's something you don't have to worry about. I went from a maf straight to link v3 full on speed density. Just skipped the gm cause I wanted an iat and map sensor yet cleaner look on the innercooler pipes. It is a bit more finicky to get the car running good all around vs a maf but worth it in my opinion. I don't blame you I'm the same way. Ya exactly, just go over everything well and use torque specs, proper timing, sealants where they need it. You can port the oil pressure relief if you want and don't got balance shafts etc. I look at it as the better its done the less chance of problems and better longevity! Not sure if you know but Whalen can also mod oil pans to clear for arp mains and a kiggly girdle if you go that route.
 
276 from Kelford is a TALL cam for 600-700whp in my opinion. God dang.
Unless it is STRICTLY drag race.
Any cam in Kelford’s line up from their 264’s-272’s will satisfy 600-700whp and give you more hp under the curve.
I would stick to the 272’s from Kelford if you’re DEAD SET on wanting a tall cam.

264’s would be something I would go with for a car I can also drive on street.
From their cam cards:
Kelford’s 264’s are a little more aggressive than HKS’s 272’s / Comp Cams’ 101200’s
 
I ran Kelford 264's in my profile car and they will put out some power. I had a crappy vacuum, somewhere around 4-5 hg, but they would rev to 8500. 9k in first gear. Pair them with the proper springs and they are a dam good cam. I am swapping them over into my auto car and the profile car, which is a stick, is getting Kelford 272's. Stay tuned on those setups and how they work. I will say, the little red car was taking out low 11 second quarter mile cars by a decent gap on E85. :cool:
 
Ok, ok......didn't throw a gap on him....but he can't catch the lil red car.
Bike runs 11.15 at 130 at our local track. This is against all of our preaching on here to do this at the track, but ask and you shall receive.
Disclaimer: I do not condone the following activities, but this was in Mexico.....

You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
276 from Kelford is a TALL cam for 600-700whp in my opinion. God dang.
Unless it is STRICTLY drag race.
Any cam in Kelford’s line up from their 264’s-272’s will satisfy 600-700whp and give you more hp under the curve.
I would stick to the 272’s from Kelford if you’re DEAD SET on wanting a tall cam.

264’s would be something I would go with for a car I can also drive on street.
From their cam cards:
Kelford’s 264’s are a little more aggressive than HKS’s 272’s / Comp Cams’ 101200’s

there are guys that street drive on 280/288s. a 276 isnt that terrible comparatively. i also dont think whalen wouldve suggested the 276 over a 272 if there wasnt a reasoning behind it. those where the cams he suggested to me on my aluminum rod engine build.
 
I agree, I have an aluminum rod motor with Kelford 280's and with my idle set at 1100rpm pull 14-15in/hg vacuum. I feel 280's are very streetable.
 
I’m sure they do.
Furthering the discussion I guess... this will be lengthy.

I stand by what I said. Expanding on it:
My opinion - 600-650 is the tipping point for most setups (streetability is now more like an on/off switch for power at the wheels) —> I actually want @bastarddsm to weigh in on this convo... Want to hear what he has to say on cams for turbos in this range.
I’ve actually been looking into this a lot.

@ 600-700whp, I don’t see the benefit ON THE STREET running anything taller than like 220 or 222 standardized duration (10.5-11.0mm lifts), on turbos around the Garrett GT35 size.
Note: Anything smaller than the GT35 should definitely have a cam smaller than what was previously stated. The numbers you give up down low and midrange blows, with no benefit because a turbo that small will not see any benefit - it’s already flowing just fine.

Kelford’s 272’s, and their 276’s are a little tall for something like this if it’s a street / weekend warrior.
If it’s something along the lines of 90% drag, 10% street —> Okay, then THERE’S the justification. GTX35+ I see the point of going with Kelford 276. I think Kelford’s 272 would have been fine. But again, I see the reasoning and don’t disagree with Kelford’s 276.

Edit: I remember Andy from the Zilvia forums. Look at him go. :)

Edit: also, just me personally - I would run the 264’s in my car at ~650whp because I like as well a street mannered car as I can get. So if I sacrifice anything up top I’d be happy with it for the gains I make everywhere else. I would love to see back to back Kelford 264’s to Kelford 272’s on a GTX3582R or GTX3584RS.
 
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I’m sure they do.
Furthering the discussion I guess... this will be lengthy.

I stand by what I said. Expanding on it:
My opinion - 600-650 is the tipping point for most setups (streetability is now more like an on/off switch for power at the wheels) —> I actually want @bastarddsm to weigh in on this convo... Want to hear what he has to say on cams for turbos in this range.
I’ve actually been looking into this a lot.

@ 600-700whp, I don’t see the benefit ON THE STREET running anything taller than like 220 or 222 standardized duration (10.5-11.0mm lifts), on turbos around the Garrett GT35 size.
Note: Anything smaller than the GT35 should definitely have a cam smaller than what was previously stated. The numbers you give up down low and midrange blows, with no benefit because a turbo that small will not see any benefit - it’s already flowing just fine.

Kelford’s 272’s, and their 276’s are a little tall for something like this if it’s a street / weekend warrior.
If it’s something along the lines of 90% drag, 10% street —> Okay, then THERE’S the justification. GTX35+ I see the point of going with Kelford 276. I think Kelford’s 272 would have been fine. But again, I see the reasoning and don’t disagree with Kelford’s 276.

Edit: I remember Andy from the Zilvia forums. Look at him go. :)

Edit: also, just me personally - I would run the 264’s in my car at ~650whp because I like as well a street mannered car as I can get. So if I sacrifice anything up top I’d be happy with it for the gains I make everywhere else. I would love to see back to back Kelford 264’s to Kelford 272’s on a GTX3582R or GTX3584RS.

for someone who wants a solid daily driver sure i can can agree 264 would be perfect since youre not as concerned with top end as much as low/ mid range. for car that are going to spend a good amount of time at the track or mexico if that tickles your fancy, youre going to want something with some more bite in the upper rpm range since youre going to spend that time above 5000 rpm.
 
I think Kelford 272's are hard on valve train for little performance gain. I have not been impressed by them, and I can't say that I would reccomend a larger cam for that power range. Everything depends on everything, but if your not chasing a number or trying to class race, I'd personally go for some of the smaller old school 272 cams, and compensate with a little more boost.

You list 6-700hp, but what 6-700hp? On what dyno? at the crank, at the wheels? Big difference between 600 at the crank, and 700 on a low reading dynojet.
 
Not to thread jack here, but I guess it’s def relative.
Wheel horsepower, always.
Ahh, that’s awesome to hear, thanks. Because it seems I was def on the right track for my car.
I’m in training right now for a welding apprenticeship and if I come out the gate making some REAL money once I start the apprenticeship I was looking into a twin scroll setup for the GTX3584RS. Though I’m PROBABLY going to settle on something a little less like the g25-660 or GTX3076R (Holding my ass waiting for Garrett and what the G30 series looks like).
Goal of 450-475whp out of the G25-660 or GTX3076R or 600-625whp out of the GTX3584RS.
Air movement mods —> 60mm throttle body, extruded 2G manifold, 0.5mm oversized valves, mild port work. I feel all this is the best you can do, efficiently, for gaining much flow up top while keeping as much low end as you can.
Cams for those two setups I was considering was the Comp 101100’s at minimum, and either the Comp 101200’s or Kelford 264’s afrer that. Revs will be under 7,800. Can’t see ever turning much more than that at this point in time.
 
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I think Kelford 272's are hard on valve train for little performance gain. I have not been impressed by them, and I can't say that I would reccomend a larger cam for that power range. Everything depends on everything, but if your not chasing a number or trying to class race, I'd personally go for some of the smaller old school 272 cams, and compensate with a little more boost.

You list 6-700hp, but what 6-700hp? On what dyno? at the crank, at the wheels? Big difference between 600 at the crank, and 700 on a low reading dynojet.
I would assume whp but would also have to take into account him being an auto as well with that.

https://www.dsportmag.com/the-tech/showcase/camshafts-mitsubishi-4g63-evo/final-results/

this was also an interesting find on a cam shootout that d sport did.
 
I think Kelford 272's are hard on valve train for little performance gain. I have not been impressed by them, and I can't say that I would reccomend a larger cam for that power range. Everything depends on everything, but if your not chasing a number or trying to class race, I'd personally go for some of the smaller old school 272 cams, and compensate with a little more boost.

You list 6-700hp, but what 6-700hp? On what dyno? at the crank, at the wheels? Big difference between 600 at the crank, and 700 on a low reading dynojet.

I mean for me 600-700hp is kind of an arbitrary number that I came up with to reach my goal to be able to run in the mid 10's potentially even faster, just want to have a car I can take to the track with my dad and very occasionally drive on the road.
 
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