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2G Xona Rotor Turbochargers

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For knowledge sake, do the larger turbos act more friendly on a 2.3 stroker for example? As in be useable within the 8500rpm limited powerband.
 
The consensus is stroker motors decrease spool rpm. Twin scroll turbine housings also decrease spool rpm. Here’s a post by @twicks69 hitting 30psi by ~3,700rpm and running out to ~8,600rpm with a 0.95 A/R twin scroll T4 GT4088R and 2.3L.
I find this ~5,000rpm powerband absolutely amazing and I hope I can replicate the powerband with my build.
550-800awhp fuel system
 
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For knowledge sake, do the larger turbos act more friendly on a 2.3 stroker for example? As in be useable within the 8500rpm limited powerband.

most likely, I've read that they can spool larger turbos. I've also read that the long rod destroked 4g64 is the hot ticket for the largest turbos though. since the advantageous rod-to-stroke ratio permits 11,000 plus superbike level redlines.

Does anyone know if any Turbonetics T4 turbine housings fit the GT35 CHRA?
 
The consensus is stroker motors decrease spool rpm. Twin scroll turbine housings also decrease spool rpm. Here’s a post by @twicks69 hitting 30psi by ~3,700rpm and running out to ~8,600rpm with a 0.95 A/R twin scroll T4 GT4088R and 2.3L.
I find this ~5,000rpm powerband absolutely amazing and I hope I can replicate the powerband with my build.
550-800awhp fuel system

I like the sound of that! I’m hoping that it will be the key to using my XR95•67 closer to its potential
 
I already have the FP HTZ3586, just no hotside. I also have an Straight line specialties T4 undivided tube header. trust me id rather have a T3, but the deal on it was right.

good insight, thank you. I have already found both AR's in T4 footprint. just haven't decided which can meet my needs yet.

The smallest T4 undivided you can get is a .63 which will flow enough for your goals IMO. But you have another option with an undivided manifold, you could add a quick spool valve, buy a divided housing (go bigger), and have dual AR. Not cheap, but helps the 2j guys.

personally, I would sell the manifold and get a divided manifold and a divided housing. Garrett's white paper says divided will spool like an undivided at 60% of the size but make power of approx 80%. So easy math...1.00 t4 divided spools like a .60 t4 but power of .80 t4.


Evo results....Blue is a 0.63 T3 single scroll
Red is the same 1.06 T4 divided

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red looks like a winner to me.
 
The change in spool difference between different gears is largely due to the time factor. A given turbo/setup takes time to spool, and the same time frame in first will cover a larger RPM range than it will in 4th. This is probably obvious, but hey, I like to state the obvious. To look at it another way, more time will be spent at the lower rpms in higher gears, so the snowball effect then builds boost at lower rpm. Being able to play with load on a dyno is interesting, since it lets you separate time, rpm, load, and gear. If swapping turbo setups wasn't such a pain in the ass this would be a great test to do on a number of different combos and see how they compare.
 
I just had a thought, and usually that leads to rambling. Sorry in advance. Tests like the one above are always done at a fixed boost level. The internet will say boost has to be the same for it to be a fair test. But, in reality, is anyone ever boost limited? Maybe it's just because it's the way I operate myself, but I always assume everyone is going to max out the compressor. In that case, boost is certainly not fixed, but airflow is. What would be the difference in turbine housing in that case? I don't care about boost, this is the test I want to see. Some people are limited by fuel parts and other supporting systems, also an airflow limit. Some people are limited by parts, stock rods for example, that's a load limit. But these tests are always done with a boost limit. All it's really showing is the change in VE with IMAP:EMAP and reduction in pumping losses, and I think we would all expect that. It would show a spool difference, but in the test above I don't see a significant difference there, it seems to be within 100 rpm. If both housings made the same power when compressor limited what would the remaining difference be? Random thought for the day.
 
I just had a thought, and usually that leads to rambling. Sorry in advance. Tests like the one above are always done at a fixed boost level. The internet will say boost has to be the same for it to be a fair test. But, in reality, is anyone ever boost limited? Maybe it's just because it's the way I operate myself, but I always assume everyone is going to max out the compressor. In that case, boost is certainly not fixed, but airflow is. What would be the difference in turbine housing in that case? I don't care about boost, this is the test I want to see. Some people are limited by fuel parts and other supporting systems, also an airflow limit. Some people are limited by parts, stock rods for example, that's a load limit. But these tests are always done with a boost limit. All it's really showing is the change in VE with IMAP:EMAP and reduction in pumping losses, and I think we would all expect that. It would show a spool difference, but in the test above I don't see a significant difference there, it seems to be within 100 rpm. If both housings made the same power when compressor limited what would the remaining difference be? Random thought for the day.
That’s exactly my issue with single scroll/twin scroll tests. I have yet to see one comparing choke flow to choke flow.
 
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This is a 35r turbo in a .63 housing. Looks better than either in the graphs you posted.


The smallest T4 undivided you can get is a .63 which will flow enough for your goals IMO. But you have another option with an undivided manifold, you could add a quick spool valve, buy a divided housing (go bigger), and have dual AR. Not cheap, but helps the 2j guys.

personally, I would sell the manifold and get a divided manifold and a divided housing. Garrett's white paper says divided will spool like an undivided at 60% of the size but make power of approx 80%. So easy math...1.00 t4 divided spools like a .60 t4 but power of .80 t4.


Evo results....Blue is a 0.63 T3 single scroll
Red is the same 1.06 T4 divided

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red looks like a winner to me.
 
Guys he's only asking for 600whp out of a 3586 and needs a housing. twin scroll spools faster. real world says it. Garrett's white paper says it. So even if he gets rid of his t4 mani for a good divided mani and grabs a too small twinscroll and chokes it up too much, it's still going to hit his goal and spool faster.

and the test i posted is a 1.06 T4 vs .63 T3. NOT a T4 that's why I bolded and underlined T3 previously. he keeps saying he wishes he went t3 based on all of the info posted from others. I'm just showing that a t4 can spool as well as the small t3 that was recommended and it made more power at a power level approaching what he is asking for. plenty of other charts out there but this one is specific to his situation.

Here's another t3 (but .82 this time, blue) vs t4 divided 1.15 (red). No they aren't maxed out. and neither will the 3586 we are talking about...
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This one is exactly the same AR, just the difference between divided and open scroll.
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depends how much he can get rid of his current manifold for. he doesn't have a housing regardless so that's not a factor. housings cost the same. i see some pretty fancy new manifolds for not a lot of money and I personally sold a badass used twinscroll manifold for $800.

but yes, a .54 t4 should spool similar to a 1.06 t4; shouldn't flow as well, but that may not matter.

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This is a 35r turbo in a .63 housing. Looks better than either in the graphs you posted.
the original graph I posted WAS a t3 .63. so any differences are due to difference in engine/car setups. The graph I posted was same car, different housing/manifolds so a better comparison than a completely different car.
 
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$800 is a deal LOL. I paid 1,100 for mine and it's good. but id rather have a morrison fab, STM, Archer fab, Magnus, or a couple other brands. Id love to go twin scroll housing and divided header, but... no monies like I used too. Just had a baby. so unless you know someone who wants to buy my virtually new ceramic coated FP DSM manifold with like 1,000 miles on it and my Straight line Specialties T4 tubular header.Im stuck with a T4 turbine housing in my future.
I didn't even know they made a .58 T4 housing, and I've seen the Sound performance spool valve on a well known Evo guys' car a few years ago. I looked into it and heard it really doesn't do much of anything, just sounds good on paper. I feel like if it was the magic bullet, everyone would be running it.
At this point I just wish something would show up in the classifieds. I've been looking for weeks. I'd probably even just buy a .82 T4 if one finally popped up, just to get this turbo in LOL. Even though that's not what I really want. The dyno graphs are good insight and I really appreciate it.
Or if anyone wants to buy my AMB Aero 2G version 2 widebody...I could by whatever setup haha
 
I would either:

1) Put up WTB ads on Facebook for the housing as most people won't even bother trying to sale a random exhaust housing like that.

2) Consider selling the manifold and trying to buy an fp30 exhaust housing (which can be hard to find). I've seen multiple people make that 600+ on the stock-fitment fp30 housing.
 
I would either:

1) Put up WTB ads on Facebook for the housing as most people won't even bother trying to sale a random exhaust housing like that.

2) Consider selling the manifold and trying to buy an fp30 exhaust housing (which can be hard to find). I've seen multiple people make that 600+ on the stock-fitment fp30 housing.

I have have an FP3052 on my car right now. I don't think a GT35 turbine wheel will fit into the FP30 housing I have. It is meant for a GT30 CHRA. maybe the FP3065 housing fits a GT35r wheel?
I want a tube header tho, so selling mine wouldn't make sense. and if I still had to buy another FP turbine housing id be in the same position I am now, stuck looking for a hard to find housing, and id be screwed out of my tube header for no reason.
 
I have have an FP3052 on my car right now. I don't think a GT35 turbine wheel will fit into the FP30 housing I have. It is meant for a GT30 CHRA.
You are correct.
maybe the FP3065 housing fits a GT35r wheel?
The FP3065 is the old 65lb/min comp wheel from the old GT3582R mated to the 30R CHRA, it’s the old GT3082R.
 
I’d sell the open T4 manifold and get a .82 A/R 35R TiAL turbine housing and run a Morrison Fab v-band manifold and rip it!

Curt Brown laid down over 800whp with a HTA3586 in normal T3 .82 A/R setup.
 
I’d sell the open T4 manifold and get a .82 A/R 35R TiAL turbine housing and run a Morrison Fab v-band manifold and rip it!

Curt Brown laid down over 800whp with a HTA3586 in normal T3 .82 A/R setup.

if I had money like that, which I've already stated I do not; I would do a lot of things, but for now I have my T4. Id like a Morrison fab, STM, Full-Race header sigh.
I wouldn't go V-band though. Then I'm always stuck with a V-band housing. If I could have any setup id get a divided header and twin-scroll t3 housing. the results I've seen with those are pretty good. I don't need 800whp. If I hit 600whp on the dyno out here my car is capable of 9 second ET's. That's all I want right now. I want the smallest AR possible to get 600-680whp range...and rip it.
 
The smallest T4 undivided you can get is a .63 which will flow enough for your goals IMO. But you have another option with an undivided manifold, you could add a quick spool valve, buy a divided housing (go bigger), and have dual AR. Not cheap, but helps the 2j guys.

personally, I would sell the manifold and get a divided manifold and a divided housing. Garrett's white paper says divided will spool like an undivided at 60% of the size but make power of approx 80%. So easy math...1.00 t4 divided spools like a .60 t4 but power of .80 t4.


Evo results....Blue is a 0.63 T3 single scroll
Red is the same 1.06 T4 divided

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red looks like a winner to me.
did you find that spool info on Garretts website??
BTW, unless its a coincidence...the turbo I have used to belong to you I think. was making like 700whp for a short time on your 3kgt
 
Then run a .63 A/R single scroll T4 and be done with it.
I’ve read divided T3 and 35R turbine wheels do not work well together.
If a divided T3 1.32 A/R existed for the 35R, then maybe they’d do as well as the 30R turbine in a divided T3 housing.
 
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For those that dont know, Xona is the joint venture company between FP, TiAL and owen development. The MFG happens at tial, and uses FP aero. Xona uses billet stainless Ballbearing center cartrages, journal bearing isnt an option. They also just released a new ULTRA HIGH FLOW turbine design this week that they are saying is a game changer.

Ian, hope you enjoy your turbo and make good power with it! Your top mount manifold is going to be assembled soon!




New info on the Xona uhf turbine wheels from earlier in the post

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