livedsm4g63 said:

Per your post, the reasons why its bad:
Its "garbage" (no examples given.)
Its "inconsistent" (no examples given.)
They are "handicap" (again no reasons)
Theres no power threshold where SD makes less/more power (Opinion based, no reasons)

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I don't have to give evidence for an opinion, that's why it's called an opinion. I've tuned more GM MAF setups than I care to remember, and like I said, they all sucked. That's simply my experience. You can believe it, or not, I don't really care. Here's a GM MAF car I helped out with recently: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/maft-v2-vr4-tuning-first-attempt-help-please.511093/ . This user specifically ended up switching to the "SD fad" and had much greater success, so, there's that.

Regarding the power threshold, I've tuned cars far under the 600hp mark you mention with zero issues. My Galant is under 600hp. My brother's Galant is way under 600hp (tuned by me). A billion other cars I've helped tune here are under 600hp...All on SD running great. I'd venture to say most people on SD are probably under 600hp, so I'm not sure what your reasoning is, nor do I care, because it makes zero since.

livedsm4g63 said:

I also like how you dont reference my car as another exception. Rather funny as I gave examples. But what do I know, Im no MOD.

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Well, put your money where you mouth is? Let's get a 3rd gear pull of your dialed in GM MAF and we'll all be the judge on whether or not your car is an exception. How about an idle log? I've got piles of logs of cars I've tuned on SD that track AFR dead on, and idle like stock. You can go check my build thread for logs, videos, and all the "examples" you want of my personal car. There are plenty of guys here who I've helped with tuning who can probably give you examples from their cars as well.

Lastly, I'm not a moderator. If I was, I'd probably delete half of the dumb shit you posted. So, lucky for you they keep my hands tied.

bkrathwohl said:

I'm just having issues getting afratioest/wideband and boostest/map to line up.

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Given the latest conversation, that's not terribly surprising

Post up a log if you want some feedback.

The only real issue I'm having, due to boostest being this far off, is that it is bringing me way down in the timing table. I'm pretty much bottoming out there so I don't have any resolution for adjustment.

Attached is a 3rd gear pull and my injector flow sheet. I can't help but think that these injectors are part of the issue, since users have wildly different settings for FICs. Maybe increasing global fuel and adjusting my airflow table would bring these closer in line?

For those not caught up:
2.0l motor
272 int/exh Comp Cams
HX35 with external o2 housing wastegate setup
Walbro 255lph
Aeromotive AFPR (set at 43.5)
FIC 1250cc Bluemax
3" blow through GM MAF setup

Boost leak tested to 30psi before I started tuning. I think i'll grab another test to make sure nothing else popped up after some WOT runs.

Adjust your TPS: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/adjust-your-tps.509898/

Your fuel settings are where they should be global fuel wise. This is pump gas, yeah?

Bluemax injectors are notorious for being an ass pain to tune, but that's usually at idle. Your air fuel curve looks good overall. I seriously doubt you're going to get it to track well at such a low RPM. You started that pull wayyy down in the rev range. As boost starts to come up and settle, your AFR tracks well, so there may not a whole lot you can do down low. You can tweak your MAF comp a bit between 2.5k and 3k RPM, but you'll probably find it will be hard to get the MAF to track perfectly during that initial spool-up period.

Regarding your MAP, something is awry. The curve is all jagged, which would possibly indicate to me some sort of mechanical issue. The curve should be smooth. How are you controlling your wastegate? Do you have a mechanical boost gauge, and if so, does it show the same fluctuations?

Lastly, I'd lean out the DA fuel table. You're @ ~10.0:1. I'd work toward leaning things out to 11.0:1

GST with PSI said:

Adjust your TPS: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/adjust-your-tps.509898/

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I've adjusted my TPS physically to get 0.63v and then did the TPS adjust, which gave me the results you see in the log. I will go back and double check to see if I'm still sitting at 0.63v.

GST with PSI said:

Your fuel settings are where they should be global fuel wise. This is pump gas, yeah?

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Yes pump 93

GST with PSI said:

Bluemax injectors are notorious for being an ass pain to tune, but that's usually at idle. Your air fuel curve looks good overall. I seriously doubt you're going to get it to track well at such a low RPM. You started that pull wayyy down in the rev range. As boost starts to come up and settle, your AFR tracks well, so there may not a whole lot you can do down low. You can tweak your MAF comp a bit between 2.5k and 3k RPM, but you'll probably find it will be hard to get the MAF to track perfectly during that initial spool-up period.

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I'm not particularly worried about the afrest and wideband reading, I know I can tighten that up overall (this is just a base tune thus far), i'm more worried about why the boostest and map readings are so far off. I believe this reading being this far off is why i'm bottoming out my timing table. Mind you, i've not had a turbo this big with cams, so maybe hitting that area of the timing map is normal?

GST with PSI said:

Regarding your MAP, something is awry. The curve is all jagged, which would possibly indicate to me some sort of mechanical issue. The curve should be smooth. How are you controlling your wastegate? Do you have a mechanical boost gauge, and if so, does it show the same fluctuations?

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This jagged map reading happened both on SD and now MAF. On SD it would go CRAZY around 6000, i'm talking sweeping the whole graph. I read that it could be due to a faulty MAP sensor, so I replaced it with a new one and experienced the same issue. It's a lot less pronounced on MAF, but there is something going on there I agree.

My wastegate is being controlled via an Ingersoll Rand EBCS wired in using the "Typical External Setup Using Both Bottom and Top Ports" from the bcsinstall ecm wiki configuration.

GST with PSI said:

Lastly, I'd lean out the DA fuel table. You're @ ~10.0:1. I'd work toward leaning things out to 11.0:1

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I've not yet started tuning fuel, once I got to this stage I stopped until I can figure out what's going on.

After thinking about it a bit more I was questioning the intake manifold port to which my MAP sensor is connected to.

I was using it on the PCV valve, which is a big no no apparently (news to me!). I've moved it to a port on the plenum and the MAP signal is much smoother. I will get some fresh logs this afternoon!

Reduce global, reduce mafcomp. Keep and eye on fuel trims. May need to mess with your fuel tables to ensure you dont run lean.

A very through build.

I love the restoration gives hope to others who want to save them like me.

Where are thou updates?

Well, as I expected, i'm off on another project. I sold the VR4 last weekend to a chap in Canada. So it's going international!

It was all about the build for me. I would have loved to do some of the other projects for it that I had planned, but it didn't make financial sense to keep dumping money into a car of that age (for me at least).

I'm glad I got to restore another one of these turds to some form of Glory, and I'm hoping the next owner will pick up where I left off on the build of 1228!

Oh this update sucks! Good luck on the next build! Hopefully the new owner keeps us updated.

Damn. But I'm not surprised.

Hopefully you will enjoy the next project as much as this one.

Thanks Brad, you did awesome work on that car! I'm stoked to have gotten one in such great shape! They're even more rare here in Canada!

Nice!! Purchase i cane back from your post to see the built now going back

Bittersweet update. What's the next project?