Alcohol is hygroscopic so water is the biggest enemy. It will rust your injectors if left to its own devices. We can combat this by not letting the car sit with fuel in it, or flushing the system with gas before letting it sit.
Alcohol will desolve rubber. Replace any rubber bits that come into contact with alcohol. Run Teflon(or one of its other names) fuel lines for superior corrosion resistance.

I have my 420a set up with a flex fuel sensor on megasquirt. When I run e85 I create a bit of a concoction that I add to the fuel system. It consists of iso-heet, marine fuel stabilizer, and top fuel’s power top lube:
http://www.powerpluslubricants.com/store/p62/POWERTOPLUBE

Do about an ounce of each when I fill up with e85. I have yet to have an issue and I am not running Teflon braided lines yet, but I do plan to upgrade them in the future.

Been running it like this for approximately 2 years. The power plus live was recommended by rc fuel injectors (I think that’s who it was) when they were on this forum.

DJRace said:

Alcohol is hygroscopic so water is the biggest enemy. It will rust your injectors if left to its own devices. We can combat this by not letting the car sit with fuel in it, or flushing the system with gas before letting it sit.
Alcohol will desolve rubber. Replace any rubber bits that come into contact with alcohol. Run Teflon(or one of its other names) fuel lines for superior corrosion resistance.

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Thank you for your post! How long is too long when letting your car sit with e85 fuel in it?

And by flushing the system with gas, I assuming just filling the tank with gas and driving with it for a little would suffice?

2-3 months is too long. You will begin to experience skipping at idle. And yes just run some 93 through it every now and then.

dsmcrzy said:

I have my 420a set up with a flex fuel sensor on megasquirt. When I run e85 I create a bit of a concoction that I add to the fuel system. It consists of iso-heet, marine fuel stabilizer, and top fuel’s power top lube:
http://www.powerpluslubricants.com/store/p62/POWERTOPLUBE

Do about an ounce of each when I fill up with e85. I have yet to have an issue and I am not running Teflon braided lines yet, but I do plan to upgrade them in the future.

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Seems like a great idea for someone not having a complete e85 setup. However, for the person that wants to run it as their primary fuel on a frequently driven car, this doesn't seem like a cost effective option given that it would need to be done every time you fill up.

Run a half a tank of gasoline through it every few tanks or once a month depending on how much you drive it. I've had e85 running through rubber lines for years and haven't seen any negative affects yet but then again, I can't see the inside of every hose. If you don't have the ethanol sensor installed (great investment) just pull your injectors every couple months to check for the "goo", send them in to be cleaned if it is excessive. I build a fuel injector cleaner at home that I was able to run injector cleaner/gasoline through them when removed which is another option rather than sending them in every time.

I actually had one injector become stuck shut by the goo last year. This was before I installed the ethanol sensor to be able to run gasoline through it.

Boomdeeze said:

Run a half a tank of gasoline through it every few tanks or once a month depending on how much you drive it. I've had e85 running through rubber lines for years and haven't seen any negative affects yet but then again, I can't see the inside of every hose. If you don't have the ethanol sensor installed (great investment) just pull your injectors every couple months to check for the "goo", send them in to be cleaned if it is excessive. I build a fuel injector cleaner at home that I was able to run injector cleaner/gasoline through them when removed which is another option rather than sending them in every time.

I actually had one injector become stuck shut by the goo last year. This was before I installed the ethanol sensor to be able to run gasoline through it.

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Great advice boomdeeze! Care to link some commonly used/good ethanol sensors for people wanting to make the switch?

ishnish said:

Thank you for your post! How long is too long when letting your car sit with e85 fuel in it?

And by flushing the system with gas, I assuming just filling the tank with gas and driving with it for a little would suffice?

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This will vary case to case. Humidity, atmospheric pressure, and other factors in the fuel itself, like dsmcrzy's concotion, change how fast the alcohol will absorb water and then refuse to mix with the gas. I wouldn't let it sit for a month with moving some fuel through it. I live in the pacific northwest on farm land so your situation may differ.

That's what I have done to store it.: when changing out the fuel for storage (winter is what we call it around here), I fill the tank up with gasoline when it's really low on E85, run that for a bit and fill it again. That seems to be enough.

ishnish said:

Great advice boomdeeze! Care to link some commonly used/good ethanol sensors for people wanting to make the switch?

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Got everything I needed here:

http://ecmtuning.com/wiki/ethanolsensorparts

I went with the GM Part # 13577429 sensor as it was the cheapest and it works great.

Boomdeeze said:

Run a half a tank of gasoline through it every few tanks or once a month depending on how much you drive it. I've had e85 running through rubber lines for years and haven't seen any negative affects yet but then again, I can't see the inside of every hose. If you don't have the ethanol sensor installed (great investment) just pull your injectors every couple months to check for the "goo", send them in to be cleaned if it is excessive. I build a fuel injector cleaner at home that I was able to run injector cleaner/gasoline through them when removed which is another option rather than sending them in every time.

I actually had one injector become stuck shut by the goo last year. This was before I installed the ethanol sensor to be able to run gasoline through it.

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Your rubber hoses could be contributing to your "normal" polyisobutylene amine deposits. Especially if you're sure that the goo caused the clog.
I agree that everyone burning it should have an ethanol sensor! I recommend it because there's a lot of range with the actual ethanol content of fuel. Even if you get it from the same pump in the same day.

Wow so many sensors to choose from wonder how they all differ. Thank you for the link

It's not the hoses, it's the shit gas the use to make e85. All honesty I let my sit for months on E85 and dont have any issues, but I'm prepared to recognize them and deal with them if I do. If you don't have a fcs, you can still run gas. Just approximate the percantsge and adjust the global accordingly. Err to the rich side, and dont beat in it. It's not hard.

But yes good practice would be to run a tank of gas through here and there, and switch over to gas if you store the car.

Your pumps and filters will have a shorter lifespan.

bastarddsm said:

Your pumps and filters will have a shorter lifespan.

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Did you mean longer if you store with gasoline?

bastarddsm said:

It's not the hoses, it's the sh** gas the use to make e85. All honesty I let my sit for months on E85 and dont have any issues, but I'm prepared to recognize them and deal with them if I do. If you don't have a fcs, you can still run gas. Just approximate the percantsge and adjust the global accordingly. Err to the rich side, and dont beat in it. It's not hard.

But yes good practice would be to run a tank of gas through here and there, and switch over to gas if you store the car.

Your pumps and filters will have a shorter lifespan.

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Not to sound like a newb but what do you mean by "fcs"?

Also, when running that tank of gas to clean the system up a little, do you guys have to make adjustments in link or can you get by without it?

Lastly, if running aftermarket pumps or filter, say for example, a walbro 450 e85 compatible pump and a SS fuel filter, will they also have a shorter life span?

When running a half a tank of 93 you have to update the global fuel numbers or you will run insanely rich. E85 needs more fuel to run.

E85 approves components should theoretically not have a shorter life span. That all goes in with a mass variety of variables. An e85 approved pump should last longer in e85 than a non-approved pump.

If you have the sensor you don't need to make any adjustments. If you do not have the sensor, you must adjust your global for the gasoline/e85.

Also take it easy on the car with the pump gas unless your changed you boost level/timing.

ishnish said:

Not to sound like a newb but what do you mean by "fcs"?

Also, when running that tank of gas to clean the system up a little, do you guys have to make adjustments in link or can you get by without it?

Lastly, if running aftermarket pumps or filter, say for example, a walbro 450 e85 compatible pump and a SS fuel filter, will they also have a shorter life span?

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FCS = fuel composition sensor. Yes I think that you will have a shorter lifespan. a 450 is E85 tolerant. Not E85 proof. The problem is that gasoline lubricates the pump. E85 does not. Then the whole water in the fuel/corrosion thing. Yes the SS filter will not corrode, but you'll probably need to service it more often.

Boomdeeze said:

Did you mean longer if you store with gasoline?

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No, I simply meant that E85 use will shorten their lifespan. I would think that the more often you run gasoline the longer it all will last, especially during storage.

good info here!!!

dsmcrzy said:

When running a half a tank of 93 you have to update the global fuel numbers or you will run insanely rich. E85 needs more fuel to run.

E85 approved components should theoretically not have a shorter life span. That all goes in with a mass variety of variables. An e85 approved pump should last longer in e85 than a non-approved pump.

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Yes and no. It's true if you are tuned for E85, and put straight gas in, it will be rich. In reality it's not that bad. First off I'll say from lots of experience the difference from E85 to E0 is closer to 28-20%. It depends on injectors, some do better with E85 than others. So if you were tuned for E85 and a 12:1 gas afr at wot, you would drop down to about a 9.5:1 afr on E0. Yes that's rich, but the factory maps command that rich anyway. The oem closed loop code doesn't have enough authority to get it back to stoich. But, rarely do you get real 85% ethanol, it's usually about E70 max. So say you are empty, and you put a full tank of the typical E10 what passes as gasoline around here. You have at least 1gal of E70, probably 2. So on a 12 gal fill you end up with about E18. Going from E70-E18 is a change of 21%. It'll start and run on that, and probably even go into closed loop.

typically in the past, if I was running low, didn't have E85 nearby, and was lazy and didn't want to get the laptop out, I'd just add enough to get me to a E85 pump. I'd end up around E50, and it would run just fine on that, and that ratio has enough gas in it to clean up all the gunk from the injectors.

As a follow up point, my daily beater GGSX has what I call a passive flex fuel setup. Basically I tuned the car to run right on E50, and I put what ever I want in it. It runs really good from E60 down to about E40, and lesser mixtures it runs good, it just can't let it have much boost. Then as the ethanol content gets stronger it works really well till about E70, after that it starts to get cranky on cold starts, and there is a little hickup where it comes out of closed loop. Overall though it works really well. I don't even have a wideband anymore. Don't need it. Runs 101-102 in the quarter on a basically stock 14b setup at 11psi, and I never worry about what fuel I put in it.

For guys who measure their ethanol content: If you can get your fuel below E25 it is way better for storing as it won't corrode any metals then.

Now for some more goo talk: sludge can also be caused by a dirty dirty fuel system. Ethanol will initially "clean", the goo already in your system, causing crud to flow through your equipment and cause problems. It's not a big problem to use rubber components(as bastardsm can anecdotally prove ) like lines and o rings, but you should check them much more often than alcohol compatible materials. It's time for new ones when they get squishy.

bastarddsm said:

Yes and no. It's true if you are tuned for E85, and put straight gas in, it will be rich. In reality it's not that bad. First off I'll say from lots of experience the difference from E85 to E0 is closer to 28-20%. It depends on injectors, some do better with E85 than others. So if you were tuned for E85 and a 12:1 gas afr at wot, you would drop down to about a 9.5:1 afr on E0. Yes that's rich, but the factory maps command that rich anyway. The oem closed loop code doesn't have enough authority to get it back to stoich. But, rarely do you get real 85% ethanol, it's usually about E70 max. So say you are empty, and you put a full tank of the typical E10 what passes as gasoline around here. You have at least 1gal of E70, probably 2. So on a 12 gal fill you end up with about E18. Going from E70-E18 is a change of 21%. It'll start and run on that, and probably even go into closed loop.

typically in the past, if I was running low, didn't have E85 nearby, and was lazy and didn't want to get the laptop out, I'd just add enough to get me to a E85 pump. I'd end up around E50, and it would run just fine on that, and that ratio has enough gas in it to clean up all the gunk from the injectors.

As a follow up point, my daily beater GGSX has what I call a passive flex fuel setup. Basically I tuned the car to run right on E50, and I put what ever I want in it. It runs really good from E60 down to about E40, and lesser mixtures it runs good, it just can't let it have much boost. Then as the ethanol content gets stronger it works really well till about E70, after that it starts to get cranky on cold starts, and there is a little hickup where it comes out of closed loop. Overall though it works really well. I don't even have a wideband anymore. Don't need it. Runs 101-102 in the quarter on a basically stock 14b setup at 11psi, and I never worry about what fuel I put in it.

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Not saying your way wouldn't work bastarddsm, because I know you've had great results with this from what you just said. I'm the last person who would disagree with you. But, for anyone who wants to err on the side of caution, it would make a lot more sense to just invest in an FCS (fuel composition sensor) rather than being careful and filling with so much of this fuel or that fuel.

I just realized that earlier in the thread you stated "if you DON'T have an FCS" to just fill up with gas and not beat on it. Whoops

For whatever reason, some of the big injector companies recommend running a 10 micron or less fuel filter when using e85.

Vegas smith said:

For whatever reason, some of the big injector companies recommend running a 10 micron or less fuel filter when using e85.

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I'm glad you brought this up! I would like anyone to chime in on the proper filter size for running e85. It seems the popular choice is a 40 micron filter but that only seems so because you can get that in a ss type fuel filter. With the 10 micron filters, it seems people can only find them in the paper style filters.

Anyone know if 40 microns is okay for e85? Or is it too large?