The Top DSM Community on the Web

For 1990-1999 Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, Plymouth Laser, and Galant VR-4 Owners. Log in to remove most ads.

Please Support JNZ Tuning
Please Support ExtremePSI

1G 3 bolt LSD vs 4 bolt LSD

This site may earn a commission from merchant
affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

4gfun

Supporting VIP
2,009
55
Dec 10, 2007
Ask Me, Virginia
I have a 3 bolt LSD on my GVR4 and a 4 bolt LSD on a parts DSM. I read that the 3 bolt LSD is not as strong as the 4 bolt LSD but that the 3 bolt LSD results in less driveline/parasitic loss. I can't find that post anywhere and I am burning out looking for it.

For whatever reason, splitting hairs like this is far less popular these days but splitting hairs is what makes me happy and used to make others happy.

Is the 3 bolt LSD more efficient than the 4 bolt LSD?

Thanks!
 
I swapped a perfectly good 3 bolt for a perfectly good 4 bolt on my talon and galant and did not notice a difference. I don't make enough power to break either. Both worked great. Better mod list if you do the swap.

I've never read about driveline loss with a 3 bolt before. I would like to know why it is claimed to be an issue.
 
Thanks guys. No links though. Like I said, I saw it once but can't find it again. If I do find it, I will post it up. Still plenty of time before I will be putting the 4 bolt in. Thanks.
 
The 3 bolt axles have smaller diameter. Less material, less weight = less driveline loss. The 4 bolt larger diameter axles are stronger but more material, more weight = more driveline loss.

Jeez......gotta wonder why I didn't think about that for starters. Actually, it was in the back of my mind.

I was thinking of repairing my 3 bolt LSD that might be starting to ratchet but it probably makes sense to use the 4 bolt on my donor car instead because I am going to go E85.
 
Jeez......gotta wonder why I didn't think about that for starters. Actually, it was in the back of my mind.

I was thinking of repairing my 3 bolt LSD that might be starting to ratchet but it probably makes sense to use the 4 bolt on my donor car instead because I am going to go E85.
Good call, all that "extra weight" is easily offset by running lighter wheels. I wasn't really thinking about rotational mass but I guess it technically makes sense although I doubt that the 3 bolt would really put down any more noticeable power.

Are you planning on keeping the 4WS?
 
Good call, all that "extra weight" is easily offset by running lighter wheels. I wasn't really thinking about rotational mass but I guess it technically makes sense although I doubt that the 3 bolt would really put down any more noticeable power.

Are you planning on keeping the 4WS?

Thanks for the reminder on the wheel weight. I am still running 4 lug wheels that are about average weight. I recently redid my brakes as well and the rotors are slotted/drilled 4 lugs so I'll probably stay that way. You just reminded me that the rear brakes have to be pushed aside. I REALLY REALLY REALLY hated that job. The 4WS was gone long before I bought the car about 9 years ago. Check my profile out if interested.
 
Thanks for the reminder on the wheel weight. I am still running 4 lug wheels that are about average weight. I recently redid my brakes as well and the rotors are slotted/drilled 4 lugs so I'll probably stay that way. You just reminded me that the rear brakes have to be pushed aside. I REALLY REALLY REALLY hated that job. The 4WS was gone long before I bought the car about 9 years ago. Check my profile out if interested.

When I did mine, I wanted 5 lug and to delete the 4ws. I just swapped out the galant front and rear subframe for my parts gsx front/rear subframe. Then I got brembo rotors for like 90 bucks a piece or something like that. I do remember the rears being entertaining.
Just a thought, if you have the talon front/rear subframe. Makes it convenient to do the bushings too. I didn't notice anything about the 4ws but I must have missed it. I glance at all the gvr4 builds for ideas and stuff, even though I didn't make a profile for mine LOL
 
When I did mine, I wanted 5 lug and to delete the 4ws. I just swapped out the galant front and rear subframe for my parts gsx front/rear subframe. Then I got brembo rotors for like 90 bucks a piece or something like that. I do remember the rears being entertaining.
Just a thought, if you have the talon front/rear subframe. Makes it convenient to do the bushings too. I didn't notice anything about the 4ws but I must have missed it. I glance at all the gvr4 builds for ideas and stuff, even though I didn't make a profile for mine LOL

Keeping the ideas in mind. Yeah the profile helps me out as well as logs that I keep. I have been working on cars for so long that I hate it. I can't imagine having to guess whether or not I did something annoying...especially the rear brakes. Seems like the more I work on cars the harder and filthier it gets. It's listed in there somewhere. I even list what I ate that day. :)
 
The 3 bolt axles have smaller diameter. Less material, less weight = less driveline loss. The 4 bolt larger diameter axles are stronger but more material, more weight = more driveline loss.
I see several people chiming in. Do you guys really think more weight on an axle causes parasitic loss??? At those diameters? The idea is what power does it take to spin it. If you're talking a wheel sure. A few mm on an axle? If you saw any difference at all on a dyno I would be shocked. Parasitic loss isn't a concern here.
 
I see several people chiming in. Do you guys really think more weight on an axle causes parasitic loss??? At those diameters? The idea is what power does it take to spin it. If you're talking a wheel sure. A few mm on an axle? If you saw any difference at all on a dyno I would be shocked. Parasitic loss isn't a concern here.
I mentioned that as probably the OP read something about that in somewhere. it is a theory but it sometimes is not equal to the reality. If we have to say something exactly then probably would be different but I personally think the difference would be very very minimal, don't think it causes a lot of driveline loss for real.
 
Great posts. The 4ws is disabled already. I am going to swap it out when time allows.

Is the 4 bolt different internally than the 3 bolt? Could that have something to do with what I read at some point? Put it this way...many people would stick with the stock 7.5 rear in the F-body world and refuse to "upgrade" to the 8.8 Ford rear due to driveline loss.

Could this scenario be the same in the DSM world? Is something different internally?
 
I broke my Galant VR4 3 bolt and went to a 4 bolt. I didn't notice any difference in drivetrain loss. For drivetrain loss between the two there isnt enough to justify it. Now the 4 bolt will lock both wheels with the vicious coupler. The galant vr4 3 bolt is a non lsd. The major difference I noticed was in launching and how the car turns. If your worried about breaking your 3 bolt or want a little more oversteer I would go 4 bolt. Just my experience with both.
 
I broke my Galant VR4 3 bolt and went to a 4 bolt. I didn't notice any difference in drivetrain loss. For drivetrain loss between the two there isnt enough to justify it. Now the 4 bolt will lock both wheels with the vicious coupler. The galant vr4 3 bolt is a non lsd. The major difference I noticed was in launching and how the car turns. If your worried about breaking your 3 bolt or want a little more oversteer I would go 4 bolt. Just my experience with both.
Unless someone put an early DSM 3 bolt LSD on your car like they did mine. :)
Thanks for sharing your experience.
 
The 3 bolt axles have smaller diameter. Less material, less weight = less driveline loss. The 4 bolt larger diameter axles are stronger but more material, more weight = more driveline loss.
Nailed it.

Since your question is now answered i'll throw out a fun fact: you can fit most Evo differentials in the 4 bolt and that really opens up your rear end to the aftermarket.
 
Nailed it.

Since your question is now answered i'll throw out a fun fact: you can fit most Evo differentials in the 4 bolt and that really opens up your rear end to the aftermarket.

That seems to imply that the 3 bolt LSD diff internals are different if only a 4 bolt LSD really opens the rear to the aftermarket no?

Appreciate the fun fact. Would the 4 bolt LSD also allow the use of different axles?

I am doing some pro-active searching around and axles for either seem to be getting harder to come by.
 
That seems to imply that the 3 bolt LSD diff internals are different if only a 4 bolt LSD really opens the rear to the aftermarket no?

Appreciate the fun fact. Would the 4 bolt LSD also allow the use of different axles?

I am doing some pro-active searching around and axles for either seem to be getting harder to come by.
You bet. We're all here to learn and share, right? I dont know much about the three bolt. But you can use different axles and I respectfully disagree that they are hard to find. http://www.driveshaftshop.com/import-axles?cat=23
This is the best resource for putting the evo diff in: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-install-evo-lsd-into-1g-dsm-gvr4.516126/#post-153679343
 
You bet. We're all here to learn and share, right? I dont know much about the three bolt. But you can use different axles and I respectfully disagree that they are hard to find. http://www.driveshaftshop.com/import-axles?cat=23
This is the best resource for putting the evo diff in: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/how-to-install-evo-lsd-into-1g-dsm-gvr4.516126/#post-153679343

Thanks for the warm lead buddy. I burnt out from working on DSM(s) long ago so thanks for the spoon feed. I was looking at the used part market.

EDIT: Those axles look great but $$ Nice to have the option....and yes, learning and sharing along with disagreements make our cars faster. :)
 
I'll keep an eye out in my area and PM you with any finds. Maybe try putting up a WTB for them? I took a break for a little bit too circa 2012. When i lived in NY, I had a friend who borrowed my car blow off a radiator hose. He refilled the thing with tap water, and temps hit -40f that night. A week later I get back from leave and it's smoking and making me hate people. Hahaha
What burnt you out?
 
I'll keep an eye out in my area and PM you with any finds. Maybe try putting up a WTB for them? I took a break for a little bit too circa 2012. When i lived in NY, I had a friend who borrowed my car blow off a radiator hose. He refilled the thing with tap water, and temps hit -40f that night. A week later I get back from leave and it's smoking and making me hate people. Hahaha
What burnt you out?

Aww man, that sucks. -40F, that is crazy and even more so with tap water. It doesn't take much for water to expand.

Well my donor 4 bolts axles are fine AFAIK. Burn out comes from from alot of factors I guess. Age is the first. My body isn't what it was when I was 20. I am in my mid 40's. I have seen people die in their 20's and 30's that were in ok shape so I guess that I should be thankful to be alive. I am not in South Florida anymore so working on an outdoor slab when it is 20 out didn't bother me at first but over the years it started to get more annoying. I have been working with these cars on or off for over 20 years. I have never been exceptional at it and have always scratched the surface. I have other problems like ADHD which makes it hard to focus on one thing and it is amplified by the fact that life asks you to focus on numerous things at the same time. To top it off, the driving laws are extremely strict here. Going over 80 is a misdemeanor and you get a record for life if convicted. The thing is, all of the jobs are here so I choose to stay for now. Finally, the VAST majority of folks in this area just drive huge lifted trucks as their choice of "race car". :)

I find that every job I do to my vehicles is more dirty and difficult than the last job. I could look at it as more challenging but for me the glass is half full. I can't trust anyone to work on my cars around here so I have entered the realm of mounting rims on tires and bubble balancing along with string alignments. That crap takes time and takes it's toll.

It's funny that you had a break like I did. Mine was in 2003 when I got hosed by my ex wife for child support for a kid that I really didn't get to see.

The first mechanical difficulty was one that I could not afford. I then entered the world of beater cars which was fun in it's own way.

Fast forward to 2008, I got back in the game again. Unfortunately, I never stopped to think of the reality of rust and the vehicles being hard to find.

Kind of downhill from there.

On the bright side, the GVR4 has an antique tag and I get to drive it once a week so it will break much slower than if it were a daily.
 
Last edited:
Unless someone put an early DSM 3 bolt LSD on your car like they did mine. :)
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I thought all vr4 3 bolts were non lsd due to no viscious coupler being in them. I might have to look. Its been so long since I was on a 3 bolt.
On the bright side, the GVR4 has an antique tag and I get to drive it once a week so it will break much slower than if it were a daily.
I did the same. Mine gets driven to cars and coffee events. Although I need to install a bunch of parts and get it dyno tuned.
 
I thought all vr4 3 bolts were non lsd due to no viscious coupler being in them. I might have to look. Its been so long since I was on a 3 bolt.

I did the same. Mine gets driven to cars and coffee events. Although I need to install a bunch of parts and get it dyno tuned.

Lol, sounds like you aren't missing the 3 bolt anyways! I don't think any gvr4 bolts were LSD. The previous owner put one from a DSM on mine for what seemed to have started off as a mild build.

Life is much better with an antique (or whatever they call it in each State e.g. Classic). Just can't take it regularly to work so I take it to work once a week to keep the seals etc. going.
 
Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Boosted Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Fuel Injector Clinic Innovation Products Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications MyMitsubishiStore.com RixRacing RockAuto RTM Racing STM Tuned

Latest posts

Build Thread Updates

Vendor Updates

Latest Classifieds

Back
Top