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2G Tubular adjustable suspension parts for the entire chassis. Tubular subframes

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Hello thread.. how are you guys tonight? So I just wanna ask real quick while I see the Debate on these BEAUTIFUL Pieces OF Art..

Ahem.... So until I can get my hands on a set of these lovely GEMS... I was wanting to upgrade my Suspension and I ran across some information pertaining to 3rd Gen LCAs and Possibly the UCAs AS WELL being used on the 2nd Gen.. That they were bolt ons for the 3rds to 2nd gen and that the 3rd Gen was and upgrade to our platforms LCAs & UCAs with Tubular Construction like these that you have here. Just not as advanced on the customization as these but Tubular Design none the less..

My Question is can I use these from the 3rd Gen U's and L's and possibly the back as well or is there NO VALIDITY TO THIS?

Yes the 3G rear lowers and uppers are tubular, also same from the Galant aswel, while they are bolt on the lowers require you to use the Galant ARB and use the relevant drop links, which so means you need new ARB bushes since its bigger now,

Note i have found on these items are.

The uppers are slightly lighter but only a fraction, but they are stronger! They angle it up aswel so if your going really low it may or may not be an issue,

The lowers are also a tad lighter but flex abit more then the stock pressed units we have as stock, i found this out doing a basic weight press test so perhaps they are thinner walled hence the flexing, so in my thoughts OEM 2G lowers are stronger with less flex
 
Hello all,

I have the front upper arms back from coating and they are ready to be installed this weekend and then i can reset the car up and see how they handle act!

I will keep the roll centers and antidive as oem spec for now and only adjust camber a bit and then i shall play more as time goes on to see the effects it has, updates will come in when i have them.
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So everything is on now, apart from the rear lateral arms as i have covers over the bolts to stop rain and dirt getting trapped in there and its kind of a pita to remove so i shall do that sometime soon,

The i itial setup is there and tomorrow will see the final adjustments and setup to see what it has taken me to on all the specs
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Anxiously awaiting some numbers on these... Hopefully the Camber and Caster numbers that you calculated out will end up being close. Also curious to hear if your Anti-Dive ends up working out.
 
Anxiously awaiting some numbers on these... Hopefully the Camber and Caster numbers that you calculated out will end up being close. Also curious to hear if your Anti-Dive ends up working out.
The numbers are correct as i checked on 2 cars to confirm, 1 was an all oem car and mi e which had lower arms by paul and both gave very close figures to workings out, Check out my build thread as i just updated it, it has basic numbers there until tomorrow
 
Today was another long day! It was mainly finishing up from yesterday and then doing the alignment/setup and then test drive.

Set it all up and went for my drive and straight away its so different up front now compared to the stock arms, its reaction is pretty much instant, i was expecting alot of noise but to my suprise there was none? But i certainly felt a bit more then before, not uncomfortable or anything, the steering wheel is where i felt most of it, i will keep an eye on its progress and see what noises or vibrations are like after some more time driving time.

I set the fronts up to 2.5* camber and 6.6* caster and oem antidive and RC. So far the strong shafts are holding well and the outer shaft in the knuckle rotates nicely with the spherical in the rod end which is how its ment to, i used medium vibration proof loctite on the bolts holding them in place and so far its ok, time will tell if i need red loctite or find another way!

When i did install these front uppers i came to find 1 side of my tubes in my towers were alittle off by a fraction! Where the oem rubbers bend and twist to take this kinda gap up mine wont do that but it still went on ok, it just needed to be out on dead strsight and a little force but later come to find getting it on and off means this 1 side comes off as straight as possible then its not much on an issue, the other side slid on perfect so it might be where its just out from production as its never been crashed in that way so its not accident damage.

Steering turning also seems improved as in it feels it turns tighter radius. I have yet to confirm this 100% but it does feel nicer,

It put my toe out a fraction but not alot i jumped from 9 thou to 22 thou and i can get that back down again as i have at work the revised i sert which went out with the BS kits but i still have the old 1st prototype on still so thats fixable.

Steering is actually kinda nice and different compared to what i read online about caster making steering harder, it feels somewhat lighter in my opinion and i wanna say more "free" but not sure if thats the correct wording but its nice none the less. Static camber is more when turning the wheel on 1 spot, it creates slightly more pos camber on the inner wheel and neg on the outer wheel so that should be nicer in the corners geining that little bit extra, i did not however check precisely the amounts gained as i ran out of time for today so this is just a visual and a feel ( very high tech analyzing ) LOL

Rear lowers are as designed and work well, they are strong and no flexing was detected or seen visual after driving and remain straight, they are 3mm walled CDS after all so i dont expect them to bend or flex being that stiff. Will keep an eye on these aswel over the coming weeks. I need to pack my rear sway bar brackets out as my oem droplinks pointed forward and i made a spacer but used the Galant brscket which had wider holes so will modify my packer and get these new drop links sitting in the middle and happy.

Thats it for now folks, any questions i shall try answer them as best as i can
 
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For the camber adjustment it has to be done with the car jacked up, many setups are this way and its sometimes how it has to be, if we had a different arm design and not offset to 1 side so much i think it would have been better but it is how it is and i had to work around the oem setup!

I wish i could have external adjusters eve for the outer rode d at least but all apart from 1 bush (inner front side? They have no room for such setup so this is physically the only way to have it while using 3 rod ends. Just takes a little more time to setup thats all.

For the setup its still pretty simple. You first take static camber when its on the ground then jack it up and remeasure camber! Take the difference and set the arms to your setting minus the difference when loaded, so if you have 2.5* of camber and jack it up and you get 2* then you set the arms to 2* when jacked up and when you put it back on the ground you have your 2.5* camber again. Same as 1* camber when loaded and you loose say 0.8* of camber so you set it to 0.2* camber a d you gain the rest back to make the 1* of camber you already had. Remember if you dont have turn plates or free moving plates the tires have to be rolled or moved to settle again! Or it wont settle back down ok, if your using plates or even 2 tiles with grease in the middle then it will self set and readings will be ok,

This setup method is exactly how i did mine and it works well, you just got to work out the difference thats all,
 
set the car up again, which can be read up on in my build thread! http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/2g-eclipse-time-attack-road-race-build.494941/page-7#post-153658465 much better now thanks to alot of reading and many setup attempts!,

the rear droplinks are now sitting straight up as i spaced the ARB brackets as seen with the alloy packers, When i get to build my subframe I will account for this and prespace it out in the jig,
if anyone wants to take a few pics of theirs as stock and show me how their oem droplinks sit it would help me see if its common for it to be like this or not. it seemed to me as if the actual ARB was too long even with the stock oem arms and droplinks!
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done some more testing today (driving) and mainly to make sure my adjustments are ok and safe,

I did manage to get some good turns in and cornering speeds high ish on some closed roads and entering the highway and it felt tight still and the fronts and rear lowers are doing really well, nothing is showing any signs of problems, the front uppers have now had marking on all the bolts due to the design and to see if they loosen with use or bumping/turning and glad to see with about the hours of driving i done today every mark is in place still so its not showing me any bad signs in the design which is great news, I am not the first person to do the bolting way this way just so you know so if it works for all of them well you know the rest, this is why i choose this design and way of bolting it up. as always I will keep an eye on it some more and if all still is well at the middle to end of sep i shall be sending my 2nd set out to the US for my tester to put them through some AUTOX abuse! so updates can be from the both of us then! so keep your eyes peeled and set for updates in this thread with results!

Thanks for reading everyone
 
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Everything else worked as designed a d the black shafts do look amazing installed, so once its all powder coated black on black fittings its going to be a great set of looking arms!

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sexy!
 
Thanks, they are working really well currently, been doing some higher speed stops and pushing them a bit more and no issues so far, ( i dount there will be any )

I plan to do antest track session next month if i can get the last few safety bits in, but i have a tester that will be able to test my 2nd set in AutoX soon too,
 
Bobby.

Droplinks.. you mean sway bar endlinks correct? Will AWD pictures work for you also or no?
Endlinks, droplinks, same thing different name LOL, i am sure we can make other names up too! Haha.

And yes the rear lower arms are the same so it should ot matter really, just want to compare visuals ideally
 
I forgot to update some pics here and some i put in my build thread and also not here aswel. Sorry

So i modified my subframe as per my design as i knew i had to and its helped drastically! The car feels soooo much nicer now i have adjusted this,
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I just have to finish modifying my rear toe kit and then i can get to the spec i require now, once i have modified this the plans are to test out a 7075 alloy shaft as ive seen they are pretty strong and as its toe im assuming it will be plenty strong enough, more fo weight then anything.

Also the rear lateral arms are in and working well, I wanted to use my 12.9 socket capped bolts but silly me did not have the correct size allen key for them so i had to put the oem bolt back in for now, will change it out at somepoint in life ha, the bolt has a crazy offset which seems to lock itself when undoing it or doing it up, hey it works and never seen anything like it before!!!
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With this it now makes every arm non oem on the car! Yay

Next on my list is subframes!!!

Im about ready to make my rear subframe jig up and then oroceed to make a frame, still finishing the basic design but i plan to have a few location holes as 1 day i want to go really low and get as flat as possible and CofG as low as possible! So for that i need to plan ahead for the arms or it might mean i have to redesign the suspension or frame at a later date!
This should be starting sometime this month, then once complete into the front subframe for a total overhaul!
 
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Looking good!

You should make a front compression arm first.
Thanks, the comp arm is still on the cards, i have ideas but not progressed further then a few drawings yet, but i will,
 
Looking good!

You should make a front compression arm first.

I second this as I would like something that both keeps the dual lower arm setup as well as eliminates the rubber bushings and replaces them with either solid bushings or spherical bearings, possibly with some adjustment for additional caster.
 
I second this as I would like something that both keeps the dual lower arm setup as well as eliminates the rubber bushings and replaces them with either solid bushings or spherical bearings, possibly with some adjustment for additional caster.
I am working on something slowly, its only issue is the inner mount! If its spherical or rodends it will droop and thats not what we want! It also moves a fair amount so binding or not being able to twist enough could create weird handling issues so thats another thing i have to consider!

My cirrent lower comp arms are not oem and they have a harder poly type bush very similer to oem looks but the rubber is much stiffer so less slop or movement, i also have some poly bushes to test out but currently not sure if they will work due to the limited use of motion they would give!
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I know that Paul Volk had said once that he had an idea on how to do the inner mount so as to avoid the flopping around of the arm, but i dont remember the specifics. May be worth quizzing him on it though.
 
We need a joint that only allows 2 axis of rotation. A spherical gives us 3 which hurts us more than helps due to allowing the arm to flop down. The only affordable design I've been able to think of is a spherical with a very low angle and 2 bushings on either side with just enough flex to resist the moment created by self weight of the arm. The bushings wouldn't have to be very strong cause they wouldn't take any load or anything when the suspension is doing its job cause nothing else adds to the arms "flopping moment". The spherical would still be allowed to do its job and there wouldn't be any interference from the other bushings causing anything to bind.

I suppose we could cut up some driveshaft yokes and weld them to the arms and subframe and use a u-joint LOL.
 
I am working on something slowly, its only issue is the inner mount! If its spherical or rodends it will droop and thats not what we want! It also moves a fair amount so binding or not being able to twist enough could create weird handling issues so thats another thing i have to consider!

My cirrent lower comp arms are not oem and they have a harder poly type bush very similer to oem looks but the rubber is much stiffer so less slop or movement, i also have some poly bushes to test out but currently not sure if they will work due to the limited use of motion they would give!
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Still waiting for you to tell me where you got that!
 
We need a joint that only allows 2 axis of rotation. A spherical gives us 3 which hurts us more than helps due to allowing the arm to flop down. The only affordable design I've been able to think of is a spherical with a very low angle and 2 bushings on either side with just enough flex to resist the moment created by self weight of the arm. The bushings wouldn't have to be very strong cause they wouldn't take any load or anything when the suspension is doing its job cause nothing else adds to the arms "flopping moment". The spherical would still be allowed to do its job and there wouldn't be any interference from the other bushings causing anything to bind.

I suppose we could cut up some driveshaft yokes and weld them to the arms and subframe and use a u-joint LOL.
I believe a spherical to have 2 main axis as if you rotate it its the same axis throughout, well thats what i see it as LOL.its most likely wrong of course.

I wanted a housing but that leaves not a great strength for threads being attached or i know ballistic make cast units very similer, only issue is thats state side! So any further batches if it went that way would cost a fortune shipping back and forth! Not ideal really!

So i was more leaning towards another rodend with cups eitherside to keep it upright. Thats what inwas more working towards and weight of course! I think i can get it a good deal lighter then oem while retaining strength through the whole forces applied
 
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