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2G how much more boost can the t25 handle with a fmic

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Rustic gst

Proven Member
66
2
Sep 14, 2016
las vegas, New_Mexico
hey guys, im thinking of picking up a little front mount intercooler with some custom piping to fit the t25. its mostly hard pipes with the exception of one flex pipe. its from ebay but its solid and doesnt leak. my question is, if i were to get a mbc and up the boost like 2 psi, would the fmic help fight the turbo heatsoak or will it just be overkill for a t25. my horsepower goals arent very high, i just want a reliable 250ish hp. also will i need a tune for this or will the stock ecu be able to handle the small increase in boost?
 
You are actually hurting the performance of your car by adding an FMIC with the t25. If you are trying to stay with a stock 2g configuration, the t28 is the way to go for your goals.
 
I run the big greddy FMIC. 18.5 psi peak boost and it falls to 9psi at redline. My dyno numbers are with the FMIC. I'm attributing the the boost falling to 9 in lieu of the larger intercooler. But, I've also never seen anyone make 251ft lbs of torque on 93 octane either so I'm not complaining.
 
i plan to upgrade to the t28 i just cant find one in good codition for a reasonable price. will i see a difference with a t28 and a fmic, on stock boost, i read soewhere that different turbos flow differently at the same psi like a t25 flows less than a t28 both at 12psi?
 
The larger turbo will be able to maintain the boost pressure at higher rpms which is why you see better flow, it pushes more air. I would honestly switch out the FMIC for a side mount even with the t28. I doubt you would heat soak the SMIC with the T28, I ran a SMIC with an e316g and did not have any problems with intake temps. The FMIC on a small turbo creates more lag with minimal benefits for such a small turbo. If you are doing it for the look, it's your car.
 
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Only DSMer's try to stuff the tiniest intercoolers on their cars...

If you plan on running e85, then maybe an SMIC will work. Pressure drop is important, but cooling affect is more important. We have high strung 4 cylinder engines. Intercooling is important.
 
A larger turbo should heat soak your intercooler less than the t-25 due to being in a more efficient range of operation for that turbo. A good way to see what you are dealing with is log your intake air temp sensor and see if you even see heat soak.

My humble opinion from driving my t-25 and then going to an E316G then driving my friend t-25, the t-25 is too small. 251 ft-lbs is good, but that turbo falls off so hard it isn't even fun.
 
It's my dd so I want a very mild build I'm just looking to make around 250ish hp at the crank I'm planning on getting a t28 for the front mount and upping the boost a few pounds, will the ecu handle this or will I need a tune
 
It's my dd so I want a very mild build I'm just looking to make around 250ish hp at the crank I'm planning on getting a t28 for the front mount and upping the boost a few pounds, will the ecu handle this or will I need a tune

You're going to need a tune to realize the potential of those mods... You will also want to consider at the least a set of injectors (for your power goals I'd recommend some EVO 560's), a Walbro 255, wideband O2 and possibly an AFPR at the minimum. You can get away with a set up like this without tuning if you keep boost down but you may run rich every car responds differently, everyone will tell you to get something to tune with so you don't blow up. If you have a 98-99 you have a Black Box ecu which can be reflashed if you don't want to go S-AFC or DSMLink. Just my thoughts, to each their own.
 
The t25 becomes inefficient around 16 psi. Anything passed that and the turbo begins to just push hot air which has no performance benefits.

I picked up 11ft lbs of torque going from 18 to 18.5psi. I'm sure if it would have held that much psi to redline, you're comment would be true. But since it drops off, I don't think it matters.


To the OP..... If you only want 250bhp, get a 14b. Cheaper and will spool faster than a T28.
 
A larger turbo should heat soak your intercooler less than the t-25 due to being in a more efficient range of operation for that turbo. A good way to see what you are dealing with is log your intake air temp sensor and see if you even see heat soak.

This is true, but I'm going to stress again.... we run high strung 4 cylinder engines. We only make big power with lots of boost. 20psi is a lot, just not to us because we need all of it and more to make any kind of power.

If you look at anyone that has gone fast in a small turbo... 14b, 16g, 20g, whatever.... They share one thing in common, very large intercoolers. (and good fuel) Its the only way to make power on small hair dryers.
 
A tuning solution would be the best mod to reach your goal. You'll spend less money overall if you get the most out of the mods you have, and that can only be done by tuning.

I'd upgrade to a 14b, as they are cheap, easy to find, and will be more efficient at slightly higher boost levels. A 14b will also leave you with a little room to upgrade the compressor to a small/big 16g if you're feeling fancy. You could probably pull off 250hp on a stock sidemount intercooler depending on fuel.

My bare bones mod list for your car would be:
14b
ECMlink V3
Innovate WBO2
Evo 560s
Fuel pump (preferably paired with an AFPR)
FMIC
Exhaust (full preferred, but cat back would suffice for your goals)

You're looking at 1k-2k in parts, depending on whether you buy new or used. If you wait out for some deals you could probably source everything for under 1k. You could probably skip out on the exhaust and intercooler initially and see where you're at power wise. However, I'd shoot for getting both of those eventually.

If you're not up-to-date on all your maintenance, that should be your utmost priority.
 
I picked up 11ft lbs of torque going from 18 to 18.5psi. I'm sure if it would have held that much psi to redline, you're comment would be true. But since it drops off, I don't think it matters.


To the OP..... If you only want 250bhp, get a 14b. Cheaper and will spool faster than a T28.

Doesn't that statement prove the turbo is out of the efficiency range when it tails off?

We have to remember, the O/P wants 250hp. Suggestions are to have a 250hp (Butt dyno) car. That goal can be achieved on a healthy running car fairly easily without a ton a modifications.

O/P- Do your maintenance, install the FMIC if you must, up the boost to 15 psi and call it a day. The stock fuel system can handle 15 psi on a t25 all day. If you want a little more, install a 14b and have the boost at 15 psi which will be reliable and noticeable from the t25. If you wish to go further with the car then you will need to look into some tuning capabilities(ECMLink), injectors, wideband, etc.
 
Ok guys thank you for all the feedback, I think im gonna get the front mount and a boost controller, and up the boost a few pounds on the t25 and see how that goes. If I start feeling fistey I'll go with a bigger turbo.
 
The OP will be lucky to see 200 whp @ 15psi on the stock fuel system with a T25.

You definitely won't see 250 whp on bare bones mods without a tune, I guarantee it. If 200 was the goal, maybe.

Most people who use a FMIC in conjunction with a T25 just wind up with a laggier setup. Seeing as quick spool is basically the only redeeming quality of the T25, I'm not sure why you'd want to do that. The only place a FMIC would potentially help is if you're running the T25 off the map past where it's typically efficient. But, you won't be doing that, since a boost controller and FMIC alone won't allow for such ambitious goals. Hence, adding a FMIC without additional supporting modifications (as outlined scarcely above) at this stage is completely pointless. @ 15 psi, the stock side mount can handle the T25.

A tuning solution is what you want. If ECMlink is too pricey, look into some of the other cheaper (and seemingly more challenging to learn) solutions, such as an SAFC, Evo Scan, Ostrich, etc...

I'm sure some of the 2G guys can chime in with their favorite non-ECMlink tuning solution.

Food for thought:
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/front-mount-intercooler-and-stock-turbo.250265/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/just-got-back-from-dyno-on-t25.304542/
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/take-a-look-at-my-dyno-sheet-t25.120434/
 
Ok then, maybe I'll just get some hard pipes and just clean out my side mount and just up the boost that way, and when I'm ready to go with a bigger turbo I'll chance the side mount then. I just want 250 crank horse power long run. I'm sure the awd system will bring the whp well to 200 if not lower. I need to read up a little more
 
I have a small 7" (I think) fmic for my small 16g. Besides great fitment (no cutting of anything, retain crash bar) it's not overkill. I don't ever plan on getting bigger turbos, I love super quick spool ups as I mostly street drive the car.
Everyone talks crap on the T 2 small, I used to too. However, this Spyder I've been beating the piss out of is amazing for a mostly stock DSM. Even before I did a few minor bolt ons and repairs, I noticed immediately how much better the turbo spooled over and over and over again without pooping out as every other stock DSM I've been in. I deliberately try to heat soak that Lil bugger and I can still romp on it repeatedly without problems. This is also with 2 broken mani studs and probably a few small boost leaks. Now I'm sure if I took it to the track I'd be disappointed, but for a street turbo I love it. Its perfect for a fwd at least. All I'm saying is if you just want a little more bang for now with minimal cost rebuild that t25, clean your smic and do a thorough BLT. I bet you'd be surprised at the difference.
 
I have a small 7" (I think) fmic for my small 16g. Besides great fitment (no cutting of anything, retain crash bar) it's not overkill. I don't ever plan on getting bigger turbos, I love super quick spool ups as I mostly street drive the car.
Everyone talks crap on the T 2 small, I used to too. However, this Spyder I've been beating the piss out of is amazing for a mostly stock DSM. Even before I did a few minor bolt ons and repairs, I noticed immediately how much better the turbo spooled over and over and over again without pooping out as every other stock DSM I've been in. I deliberately try to heat soak that Lil bugger and I can still romp on it repeatedly without problems. This is also with 2 broken mani studs and probably a few small boost leaks. Now I'm sure if I took it to the track I'd be disappointed, but for a street turbo I love it. Its perfect for a fwd at least. All I'm saying is if you just want a little more bang for now with minimal cost rebuild that t25, clean your smic and do a thorough BLT. I bet you'd be surprised at the difference.

+1
My GST is my DD. I take it everywhere. So I had my T25 sent out and rebuilt a couple months ago. It had 80K on it. MAJOR difference. I wasn't expecting a lot from it but was suprised at how much better it performed from before.
 
I don't think you'll notice any difference between intercoolers. If you want to upgrade to the FMIC go for it. I put my large FMIC on about a year before I upgrade my turbo & I couldn't really see any impact to the spooling from the stock Stock SMIC & the T25. The thing that made the biggest difference from observations was air temp.
 
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To the OP, I had a 98 GS-T 15 years ago and my biggest regret was putting that stupid pricey Greddy front mount for my T-25. It was so much more laggy eBen I fixed all if the boost leak. If I was you, I would focus on all of the maintenence first and then get a tune. Trust me, its worth the money and you will get to enjoy your car a lot more.
 
If it makes you feel better, a DSMer recently did 500awhp with a slightly upgraded sidemount (Dejon) intercooler. I think the problem is it will heatsoak after a while and the air will get very hot.
 
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