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2G How to improve handling characteristics of my AWD 2g?

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smills1840

10+ Year Contributor
365
22
Nov 8, 2011
Blacksburg, Virginia
I fear this thread will come off as a "Just bought a stock dsm, ordered a chinese gt35r turbo kit from ebay, want to be fast" type of threads, but I assure you, that is not my intention.

I own a 1999 GSX that I bought absolutely bone stock about 5 years ago. It's gone through several phases, it's most current being it's most modified. I also recently purchased an evo 8, and even though the evo needs a LOT of TLC, it leaves me disappointed in my DSM. For the longest time, I thoroughly enjoyed my DSM, as it was always fast and I never felt like the car didn't handle well. However, after driving my evo for a while, my DSM feels so loose and old that I'm not sure if I can enjoy driving it like I used to. The car probably won't ever be used to race competitively, but more for mountain runs and backroad driving.

I am absolutely aware that these are 2 separate cars from basically 2 separate manufacturers, and that truly shows.

The characteristics that I feel the DSM lacks are as follows:
Quick turn-in/sensitive input
Ability to apply more steering mid-corner without understeering/upsetting the chassis
Overall feedback through the steering wheel

It's disheartening to me that I feel like I'm driving a Chrysler product more than a Mitsubishi sports car when I drive my DSM. I can't seem to find the limits of my Evo on public roads, whereas my DSM feels like a loose pile of metal and plastic.

I don't drive a beat up, neglected DSM either. Nearly every part on the car has been restored, replaced, or upgraded. Every single piece of the front suspension has been replaced with brand new components. All parts are installed and torqued correctly. I have Koni-yellow shock with Ground Control coilover sleeves.

So to summarize, I'm curious what the hardcore road race cars are doing to improve their suspension setup. I'm looking into replacing all bushings with the Prothane kit, and perhaps a swaybar upgrade. Are there any other tips you guys have to tighten up the feel of my 2g's handling? I'm wondering what people like @greengoblin are doing, since he is pushing the DSM chassis to the extreme.

The picture attached is to show that I'm not working with a total POS. My car is clean and well assembled, which makes this all the more frustrating. Thanks!
You must be logged in to view this image or video.
 
I owned an Evo IX MR for ten years, sold it last November only because I wasn't driving it. Your criticisms are valid. The Evo is a wonderful car and it's a bit perplexing that it drives so damned well when its design to my uneducated eye appears to be worse, yet it isn't worse at all but drives so much better.

There's a ton you CAN do to the Eclipse to make it better, and I can tell you that you CAN definitely make it overall faster than the Evo. The driving experience though I don't think will ever quite match the Evo as there are some things that are just different and are very very costly to try to make the same. As a 17 year Eclipse owner, 5 year Eclipse racecar driver... I think it's unrealistic to get them to match.

Let's address your specific concerns:
Quick turn-in/sensitive input
I'm brain storming quickly here, but here are my thoughts:
- Roll center improvement. The Eclipse rolls over easily in stock form, whereas the Evo due to its suspension design stays relatively flat, like very nicely flat. You can fix this however. I did it with a front subframe modification but the guy who does them doesn't anymore. There is hope though. An alternative modification to the mounting of the front LCA can accomplish roll center resistance increase, and Paul Volk, aka 99gst_racer, sells such an arm. Now I haven't yet tested his piece to see how it performs (it's being installed on my racecar now actually) the theory is sound. So that's where I would go.
- The Evo's bushings are simply much newer and likely have less miles than your Eclipse's. Since doing a full rubber bushing refresh is near impossible for various reasons, I would suggest a polyurethane kit for a street car. This is a lot of work to do, or money if you pay someone, but it should refresh your suspension's response to better match or beat the Evo's.
- The Evo has a much tighter ratio steering rack. There is no rack modification to change this. The only option I know of that might help is what's called a Steering Quickener, which is a device that you must install in-line in your steering column that multiplies your steering ratio and raises it, give you quicker turning. This is a custom job and could be pricey. I have totally debated doing this one day but keep putting it off for other things.
- Better shocks. Not sure what shocks you have but chances yours aren't as good as an Evos. So move up. The first shock to me that felt like a match for the performance was a KW V3. Other DSMers swear by the Koni Yellows but they are a class below the KW V3 in price and in my opinion performance. You're looking at paying upwards of $2500 for a KW V3 setup due to having to source new springs and top hats.
- Setting 1/8" toe out up front, 1/8" toe in in the rear.
- Better tires have stiffer sidewalls and this translates just a tiny bit to responsiveness and turn-in. So what tires do you have?

Ability to apply more steering mid-corner without understeering/upsetting the chassis
-
This too is pretty much everything I said before. Really, all the things mentioned in the last section do apply here.
- In addition there's your alignment. You want roughly a 50% ratio for front to rear camber for balance.
- Proper suspension tuning is critical here. Getting your spring rates right, plus getting the damper settings right, makes all the difference, in addition to the quality of the damper. I recommend to everyone a 10% higher rear spring rate from my personal experience, but that does affect driving comfort unless you have a good shock.

Overall feedback through the steering wheel
-
Overall I don't find a huge disparity on the race track, or street driving, between the two cars when it comes to feedback. It's just the Evo is so much tighter that it feels it gives more, but it really isn't giving more information. It's just your feedback may be hampered by worse tires, softer bushings, a worn steering rack... hard to say. If you work on the other stuff, this might improve surprisingly to your liking. So don't worry about this right now.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing for all of these. Don't lower your car. Really, don't. It screws up the suspension geometry. People go ga-ga over my car with how it looks, and how fast it is, and how when it's by itself it seems so low to the ground because of the aero body. However set my car next to other DSMs and people are very confused. Mine is way higher than most because I sit near stock ride height. Why? It restores everything the designers built into the suspension that you take away when you lower it: roll resistance, anti-dive, bump steer, anti-squat. All these things are key for a proper handling car and lowering ruins every single one. I lowered my car back in the day until I was educated by a very experienced DSM racer and then I saw the light.

Ok I gotta get back to work.
 
Wait, you're in Blacksburg? Come to VIR in Alton, VA May 19-21 for the UTCC and Hyperfest. I'll be there, you can pick my brain then. I'll have an air conditioned garage, should be nice :)
 
What wheels and tires are you running? I don't see them listed above.

My apologies. My wheel and tire combo isn't what it should be if I'm after sharp handling. I'm running 18x9.5 Vordoven Forme 9's with 255/35/18 Continental Extreme Contact DW tires. I'm sure I should be running a meaty tire on a 17 inch wheel, but damn the 18's look good. I know that I can't have perfect form and perfect function with a 2G dsm, so I'll need to do some soul searching to determine what I really want out of the car at this point.

I owned an Evo IX MR for ten years, sold it last November only because I wasn't driving it. Your criticisms are valid. The Evo is a wonderful car and it's a bit perplexing that it drives so damned well when its design to my uneducated eye appears to be worse, yet it isn't worse at all but drives so much better.

There's a ton you CAN do to the Eclipse to make it better, and I can tell you that you CAN definitely make it overall faster than the Evo. The driving experience though I don't think will ever quite match the Evo as there are some things that are just different and are very very costly to try to make the same. As a 17 year Eclipse owner, 5 year Eclipse racecar driver... I think it's unrealistic to get them to match.

Let's address your specific concerns:
Quick turn-in/sensitive input
I'm brain storming quickly here, but here are my thoughts:
- Roll center improvement. The Eclipse rolls over easily in stock form, whereas the Evo due to its suspension design stays relatively flat, like very nicely flat. You can fix this however. I did it with a front subframe modification but the guy who does them doesn't anymore. There is hope though. An alternative modification to the mounting of the front LCA can accomplish roll center resistance increase, and Paul Volk, aka 99gst_racer, sells such an arm. Now I haven't yet tested his piece to see how it performs (it's being installed on my racecar now actually) the theory is sound. So that's where I would go.
- The Evo's bushings are simply much newer and likely have less miles than your Eclipse's. Since doing a full rubber bushing refresh is near impossible for various reasons, I would suggest a polyurethane kit for a street car. This is a lot of work to do, or money if you pay someone, but it should refresh your suspension's response to better match or beat the Evo's.
- The Evo has a much tighter ratio steering rack. There is no rack modification to change this. The only option I know of that might help is what's called a Steering Quickener, which is a device that you must install in-line in your steering column that multiplies your steering ratio and raises it, give you quicker turning. This is a custom job and could be pricey. I have totally debated doing this one day but keep putting it off for other things.
- Better shocks. Not sure what shocks you have but chances yours aren't as good as an Evos. So move up. The first shock to me that felt like a match for the performance was a KW V3. Other DSMers swear by the Koni Yellows but they are a class below the KW V3 in price and in my opinion performance. You're looking at paying upwards of $2500 for a KW V3 setup due to having to source new springs and top hats.
- Setting 1/8" toe out up front, 1/8" toe in in the rear.
- Better tires have stiffer sidewalls and this translates just a tiny bit to responsiveness and turn-in. So what tires do you have?

Ability to apply more steering mid-corner without understeering/upsetting the chassis
-
This too is pretty much everything I said before. Really, all the things mentioned in the last section do apply here.
- In addition there's your alignment. You want roughly a 50% ratio for front to rear camber for balance.
- Proper suspension tuning is critical here. Getting your spring rates right, plus getting the damper settings right, makes all the difference, in addition to the quality of the damper. I recommend to everyone a 10% higher rear spring rate from my personal experience, but that does affect driving comfort unless you have a good shock.

Overall feedback through the steering wheel
-
Overall I don't find a huge disparity on the race track, or street driving, between the two cars when it comes to feedback. It's just the Evo is so much tighter that it feels it gives more, but it really isn't giving more information. It's just your feedback may be hampered by worse tires, softer bushings, a worn steering rack... hard to say. If you work on the other stuff, this might improve surprisingly to your liking. So don't worry about this right now.

Oh wait, I forgot one thing for all of these. Don't lower your car. Really, don't. It screws up the suspension geometry. People go ga-ga over my car with how it looks, and how fast it is, and how when it's by itself it seems so low to the ground because of the aero body. However set my car next to other DSMs and people are very confused. Mine is way higher than most because I sit near stock ride height. Why? It restores everything the designers built into the suspension that you take away when you lower it: roll resistance, anti-dive, bump steer, anti-squat. All these things are key for a proper handling car and lowering ruins every single one. I lowered my car back in the day until I was educated by a very experienced DSM racer and then I saw the light.

Ok I gotta get back to work.

Absolutely incredible response. I was worried that my thread would be viewed the wrong way, but I am glad to see people like you are taking it seriously. I'm actually a little embarrassed that I didn't tag you in the original thread as one of the guy's pushing our platform the the extreme, because I've been following you for years and years. You're actually relatively local to me, as I'm in Blacksburg, Virginia.

Based on your reply, I'll be upgrading my bushings to poly all the way around. I'll also look into Paul Volks parts, but I think he only does them in larger batches so I'll have to do some planning ahead there. My major concern aligns with your thoughts on the steering rack, in that the Evo's rack is quicker and there isn't a solution that I'm totally comfortable with. I've read that most steering quickeners have some slop in them, and I definitely want to avoid that.

The car is pretty low, but this aligns with my thought above in response to Kevin's post. I completely understand that I can't have both form and function on this platform. Perhaps my best option would be to improve the DSM as much as I can while still keeping the look I'm after, and simply build the Evo chassis to be a purpose build handling car. It has a GT35r on it, so it is already extremely fast. A nice set of coilovers and some other simple parts should improve the Evo's performance to surpass any expectations I have of a street car.

I'll research the poly bushings, Paul's parts, and maybe some other parts like coilovers for the DSM.

Keep the input coming! Thanks!
 
Wait, you're in Blacksburg? Come to VIR in Alton, VA May 19-21 for the UTCC and Hyperfest. I'll be there, you can pick my brain then. I'll have an air conditioned garage, should be nice :)

I really appreciate the invite! I've never made it out to VIR, but maybe this is the excuse I need to make the trip! I'll let you know if I decide to come down there.

Also forgot to mention, I have a set of Compworks fender braces that I haven't installed. Do these offer an improvement in any of the areas we're discussing?
 
firstly i see your still on the maf and venting your bov! that's something that needs to be looked into to make sure the fuelling is correct!

secondly onto the suspension stuff, I also agree evos are great but that's where i veer off LOL a bit short of an answer i know ha ha. John does and will have more racing experience then I do and he also owned an evo so first hand knowledge with how it is to,

this is where I'm stepping in as the evo is lets say basic in terms of the suspension system! compared to ours at least anyway! the reason why not many have gone to new extremes in our community is because not alot is made for us! like pretty much nothing and what is made is basic at best and some fail and is not great, this is where i step in hugely!!! (will explain later below ***) and yes stock ride height is great if you want less hassle on setups but your not lowering the C of G and as with any track built car that's what all builders do and try to get lower as that means alot in cornering and weight transfer! roll centers are also the same, but they must move more then the C of G and roll center should move a bit higher in compression to stop the car rolling too much,

I am still learning all of this as I progress so some of my points might not be 100% accurate but I'm pretty confident most are as they should be.


as John says for optimum suspension stock is best but you alter 1 thing!!! just 1 say Paul volks arms for instance, that's essentially a bump steer BJ or roll center BJ what ever you want to call it, whiteline sell such a ball joint for evos and its a bump steer BJ designed for when you lower the car, but they are all preset heights so nothing is adjustable so you adjust to the BJ not the other way around! that then throws out your toe out or in upon suspension travel so then another kit is needed to control the bump steer as the arms arc motion will be altered greatly and shimming and adjusting heights can make that arc better to cancel out toe.

***From above I know all this gets put out as i have been developing and building parts for our cars over the last year and a bit so I know it has effects, by the end of this year my plan is to have every suspension component fully adjustable in every way possible! this way we have a wider range of setups for different heights and balances but its complicated as its not as easy as this setup is great for me its great for all! and setup times are long and testing because some tools are specialist and not in all garages and that's why I have also been starting to buy these such tools so I know its effects and I even bought a computer software to help aid this in design and what happens when i move 1 thing, then it tells me what gets thrown out and needs checking or adjusting (I am still learning this software so i have basic info at present)

the main thing we have over many other cars is multi-link suspension! in its simple form untouched is great and amazing but heavier! do 1 thing and it can be a nightmare! but get it right then your system should be able to go above and beyond the cars with McPherson systems, the Nissan GTR has multi-link and do you see that thing being slow or hanging around??? nope!!! while simple is easier and lets put it lightly somewhat idiot proof it has its limitations, with the Nissan it has adjustments and updated technology put into its design and function plus a vast array of parts for them in the suspension sector! and that is what I am trying to bring to our community!

so start simple like strut braces and under braces and perhaps a cage to stiffen the chassis up and thing what you want to do with the car! the fender braces are said to be good and make some difference from front end flex. even simple things like making a car lighter can make a car handle much better, start with free and easy and then move up from there

1 thing i also agree with John is our cars love stiffer rear springs! I started with a 448 LB rear spring and it quickly went up to a 672 LB spring and even this does not feel as good as it could be but I am testing the car at the same time and i have not put my aero on yet ( John has so its different rules to a point) so my springs will change a few times do doubt because once i have my suspension items on I can test the whole car and work out to some extent perfectly what it SHOULD have! SHOULD being a calculation of what it tells me vs what I feel as not everything is correct from systems but its there to aid us in the right direction!

I hope we can help you progress and with the group being as race and developed as it is now it should be easy to get some great results from the 2G platform
 
Bobby makes a great point I totally forgot about. Chassis stiffness. The Evo is light years stiffer than a stock Eclipse. We have wet noodles, the Evo is solid. It's welded like hundreds of times more than ours is (not exaggerating here). Really hugely noticeable even the first time I drove mine off the delivery truck, and was noticeable EVERY single drive in it over the decade. I loved it. So you have to try to stiffen the chassis within reason because I think yours is a street car. Spot welding the chassis all over can be done but it is crazy time consuming so not likely an option. So on that front:
- front and rear strut tower bars. DC Sports makes the best ones I believe.
- A front lower tie bar that kind of provides a brace between the lower control arms for the subframe. This surprisingly does help a bit.
- Fender braces... I can't say I noticed these anywhere but the race track when really pushing it as the mid-turn push isn't there anymore. You probably don't load your frame in the fenders enough for these but... they won't hurt that's for sure.
- roll cage! If you can stomach it :)

Oh I also mentioned that our stock sway bar balance isn't ideal. It's made to have the car understeer a lot which is awful balance for handling. Get a stiffer rear sway bar, and use the OEM front, and use poly bushings for both (energy suspensions carries somes for the front oem bar). I am not sure you can buy the RM DSM rear bar alone but if you can, do it.

Also, on the steering quickness... you can get a smaller diameter wheel and that kind of makes up for it. Not quite, but it does help :) Something like a 320mm steering wheel is good.
 
The MAF was in there just to limp the car to a local car show before I got it tuned on speed density.

The chassis stiffness between the two cars is drastic. Like I said, it's immediately apparent that one car is a Chrysler product, and one car is a proven race car product. I have the luxury of owning both, so if I want to drive a car that handles like the Evo, I'll just grab the keys to my Evo. But I would like to not be so disappointed when I drive my DSM, since I really do love the car. I'll look into the chassis stiffening products, as well as the aftermarket suspension components.
 
Something else to consider are LSD's. Having spiritedly driven in an open rear diff vs a LSD equipped rear diff, I think there is something to be said. I haven't been in a evo equipped rear diff DSM before but it is said to be even better. And adding a quaife or otherwise front diff in a DSM, seems like it might make the car handle even better.
 
Well trying not to loose sight that this is basically a street car, and the idea is to bring handling up a couple of notches, I would recommend as one of the first mods, the fender braces and have them welded, if you can,
it ties in one of the weakest part of the body, and if at sometime you want more, you can run a pipe from the front of strut tower to the chassis with proper plates, it does not have to be large diameter or very heavy wall.
In addition to the polymounts everywhere except the sway bars, for the sway bars get blocks of aluminum drill a hole in center cut it in half and drill a hole on top and bottom and mount to frame, hope you understand all of that, this may even prevent you from having to go to much stiffer bars and at the ends use heim joints.
If you ever consider a roll cage which for your street car it is a pain, get the one that goes thru the dashboard following the A pillar.
If you decide for roll cage you can build the fender braces from tubing same as your roll cage and do them from the inside, here you would have to go thru the firewall.
Good luck
Mandy
 
I Autocross my car and have most of the mods listed, besides roll cage. I am still learning about suspension but it has been my main focus in the past few months. The RM sway bars made a big difference for me when I was just on stock dampers with Eibach lowering springs, it was pretty crazy. I have the fender braces too, I like them. I just did the poly bushings over winter and it stiffened it up well. I love my Feal 441 Coilovers as well. Custom higher spring rates (which I recommend) will be around $1600. Very nice quality parts. You should look them up on here. There is a thread or two on here somewhere. Also, I've read through this site and there is a lot of technical info. http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets5.html Oh yeah and get some 17x9 +35 Enkei RPF1's with some 245 Bridgestone Potenza RE-71R's on them. They are crazy sticky :hellyeah:
 
Something else to consider are LSD's. Having spiritedly driven in an open rear diff vs a LSD equipped rear diff, I think there is something to be said. I haven't been in a evo equipped rear diff DSM before but it is said to be even better. And adding a quaife or otherwise front diff in a DSM, seems like it might make the car handle even better.

I am also interested to hear more about inputs on diffs. From what I have read and understand the Evo diff bolts into a non-LSD rear diff, go figure. I can definitely tell that I don't have any LSD's pulling out of tight turns at 23psi on the 16g.
 
2Gs with sunroofs have the stiffness of overcooked linguini - sans sunroof they are very stiff indeed. Put a 2G up on axle stands, have one rear stand one notch lower than the other, now lower the car onto the stands. If the car has a sunroof it will settle onto the different height stand with enough weight on the lower stand that it cannot be moved. Repeat with a non-sunroof car and there will be barely any droop at all, it won't get anywhere close to the lower stand. You can't control the geometry in a sunroofed car with decent grip because half the movement is coming from body flex.

The lack of steering precision and feel is down to the large squishy rubber bushings in the front lower arms that are required to allow the 3D movement that the virtual pivot brings. Replace those with stiff bushings or, like the Evo, with metal spherical bearings, and to me at least, 2G steering is as good as any powered steering setup.
 
My Talon's suspension is highly modified. I run really wide and sticky tires. I run aggressive spring rates with not so great koni yellow shocks. (koni yellows are really good, but not great for racing purposes in a DSM) AND, it still doesn't hold a lick to how my stock Evo X "feels". Its way faster in autocross format, as it should be due to how much its modified, but its nowhere near as fun.

You really have to get into the bug buck$ to modify the chassis, suspension, and differentials to get a DSM to drive like an Evo.

With that being said, I compete in my Talon and have beaten many Evo's and STI's and only lost to a few.
 
Your EVO has 1:1 shock ratios in both front and rear. Do not underestimate this for managing loads and ability to tune transient handling. Roll centers are important, but there are TONS of well handling cars with less than optimal roll centers; and when you change roll center heights you will change camber-gains and more if you aren't careful (SAE 1999-01-0030 for more info on suspension geometry and how cornering loads affect vehicle response). Steering feel is what you will have the most difficulty achieving. My guess is you are not going to mess with your steering rack internals (rack-ratio, T-bar or spool valve). Final tuning, our sta-bars have poor ratios of "twist vs wheel travel" there is not much you will do about that, most people do not understand stabar bending vs torsion or how to route bars for efficiency.

What you are experiencing is the difference between vehicle tuning. Vehicles with excellent handling and driver feedback are likely to have been "tuned" by an expert vehicle dynamics team for steering, wheel rates, shock valving, tires, and sta-bars. To test this theory, go drive a base Mitsu-Lancer to see if you like it better than your Talon.
My answer...
1. move your battery to the rear, and anything else to get closer to 50:50 weight.
2. buy the best tires. ( I like tires that have a continuous circumferential center band for steering feel)
3. wheel rates and dampers. OEMs use take-apart dampers to spend countless hours changing orifice sizes and valve stacks - compression/rebound)
4. Sta-bars, don't tie your car down with "Yuge" bars, but rather "Tune" your vehicle with bars.
5. Balance your front/rear static camber (compare with your EVO)
6. document your front/rear bump or roll steer. (compare with your EVO, and consider modification)
7. Learn to do your own alignments. Play with less toe-in.
8. Smaller diameter steering wheel?

Building horsepower is a much more clearly defined "success path"... Improved handling and improved steering feel are not as clearly defined. You can read all the "love potions" in this thread or many others and still not fully understand a path to success. Tuning vehicle dynamics takes gobs of time, driving skill, precision, and consistency, and the resources of part-swapping, vehicle dynamics theory, and road-courses. I'm not saying that it cannot be done, but other areas of your life will be affected in your quest. It works best if you have a job that pays you $100k/year to do this 40+ hours per week.
 
Lots of excellent and interesting points in this thread! I am in the same boat as you, desiring a better handling dsm. I can tell you one thing that made a HUGE difference for me was an aftermarket steering wheel. Go with something a little smaller such as a Sparco 320-330mm wheel. It makes the car feel so much more responsive and (go kart like) feel. I am currently on Tein Basic coil overs and cant wait to upgrade to something stiffer. My current spring rates i believe are 9k front 4k rear. The rear feels way too soft to me. I am looking into the Feal or Fortune Auto 500 coil overs. Not sure what would be the ideal spring rates for a street car but I am thinking of going with something like 11k fronts 8k rears.
 
Lots of excellent and interesting points in this thread! I am in the same boat as you, desiring a better handling dsm. I can tell you one thing that made a HUGE difference for me was an aftermarket steering wheel. Go with something a little smaller such as a Sparco 320-330mm wheel. It makes the car feel so much more responsive and (go kart like) feel. I am currently on Tein Basic coil overs and cant wait to upgrade to something stiffer. My current spring rates i believe are 9k front 4k rear. The rear feels way too soft to me. I am looking into the Feal or Fortune Auto 500 coil overs. Not sure what would be the ideal spring rates for a street car but I am thinking of going with something like 11k fronts 8k rears.
I have 12kg rear and i still need to go up more, it feels more balanced but this what i have now 14f/12r was just out on without calculations unlike my first attempt but i am still adjusting so much its hard to settle now,

Dont use fortune auto! They wont offer and spherical upper mounts and i have had many emails with them about it and they just dont want to know, they said the platform is not worth developing.
 
Just spoke with Feal about a set of coilovers, and they said they can even offer different size shock cartridges if I'm looking for a slightly lower ride height than their standard ones offer. Seems like a pretty awesome company willing to go the extra mile to get the customer what they are looking for! :thumb: Sounds like a set of Feal coils are in my future.
 
We can assemble a proper coilover kit based off whatever the customer is looking for. Most of the 2G guys tracking the car are looking for as much stroke as possible, which goes hand in hand with a slightly taller shock. Those looking for those aesthetics of a more flush car simply need to let us know, and we will go ahead and supply shorter cartridges to achieve a lower ride height.
 
I'm not a handling expert but I have recently obtained a decent amount of chassis stiffening experience. I will say that stitch welding the chassis is hands down the most time consuming and "deep" modification you can do on the entire car in general. Welding in a cage, installing parts, or dropping in a motor has nothing on spending 150+ hours removing every component in the car, grinding every square inch of seam sealer and sound deadener, making sure all the wiring is out of heat's way, prepping metal, welding 4000 spot welds, properly coating the underside of the car, then reassembling. It sounds and looks very easy, especially if you already have a bare chassis sitting around, but it is a very involved process to do correctly. If you're not competing for a ridiculous amount of money, the most major body modification I would do would be to weld on a new roof skin.
 
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