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2G Did GSC lifters kill my motor???

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GoCanes777

10+ Year Contributor
252
27
Jun 17, 2010
Tamarac, Florida
Hello Everyone,

Some of you might recall the thread I made about my Small 16g numbers on E-85. Well I made 361/362 on about 25 psi or as long as the 16g would hold it I should say. The car at the time motor wise had Kelford 272s with dual super tech springs/retainers and the GSC lifters, rest of the motor was a OEM 7-bolt with the balance shift removed with 130k miles and enough supporting mods to run a much larger setup. While on the dyno after getting the car across the street I had some serious lifter tick. Thought nothing of it since we prepped the lifters correctly after doing research here and oil pressure was perfect. The lifter tick went away not long after the car got up to temp and before we started doing pulls. Well got home everything checked out fine and the car felt like a Animal! After coming home from a few shifts at the fire department went for a drive and out of no where the car shuts off before I got to a road that is empty and dead straight for over fifty miles...

After getting the car back to a buddy of mines shop we got the valve cover off and rocker arms went flying everywhere and we found gouges in the head on the exhaust manifold side. Went on to take the head off and found all eight exhaust valves bent and chipped, four intake valves bent. My pistons have beautiful marks in them from making contact with the valves of course. On top of all that we found the keyway sheared off the exhaust cam from locking up so bad. Soooo what did I miss for this to happen????

Did some research on Tuners as I always do and come to find out I feel I jumped the gun and purchased the GSC lifters instead of the 3g revised lifters. I had no idea the GSC lifters were a hair taller and it just so happens to be the only part I didn't go into hours of research before purchasing. Now this is the picture in my mind as to what happened and after speaking with the guys from the machine shop. In no way am I coming after GSC cause I understand there are way to many variables when it comes to something like this. Also I believe the machine shop did nothing wrong, the car wouldn't of lasted IMO on the dyno for three hours and healthy pull after healthy pull in my eyes. Next my tuner is a great dude and I'm much better at fixing the human body and putting out fires then I am at tuning but I know for a fact there was no knock in any logs cause we were sitting next to each other and I would pick his brain on a number of topics.

Any questions comments and concerns are welcome. My profile is up to date for my next set-up so just don't mind the info about my 6 bolt block that is being prepped to get dropped into the car or the +1mm valve work and extra porting. Everything else is the same from before I had the issue. I'm bummed out that's for sure I had the car running for well over five years on the small 16g, good street tune on pump gas, and a stock seven bolt. Buuuuuut as we all know the worst drug in the world is boost and the drive for lower times or a faster car. End rant. :banghead:
 
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That sucks. Sometimes the best lessons are the ones learned the hard way.

Slap a new head on it and you'll be good to go. Make sure there was no damage to the camshaft lobes. If there is, you'll need to replace them.
 
That sucks. Sometimes the best lessons are the ones learned the hard way.

Slap a new head on it and you'll be good to go. Make sure there was no damage to the camshaft lobes. If there is, you'll need to replace them.

I got lucky the camshaft lobes weren't harmed and agreed heads in the processed of getting reworked the combustion chamber ended up being ok so might as well do +1mm valves while its there. How's the new turbo setup doing? Looks great on Instagram!
 
How's the new turbo setup doing? Looks great on Instagram!

So far so good. The car has legs for days on the FP3052 compared to the 68HTA.

Maybe it's time for you to upgrade the S16g?
 
Its something else dude, ive had GSC lifters in my head for about 4 maybe 5 years now and all is well, never had any issues! Im pretty sure if its them that caused it then its down to install error or not correctly bled before install! They work perfect but do still sometimes tick but super lightly compares to the old oem ones,
 
I'd say you jumped timing or its timing related. Not the lifters. When my timing belt went i had exact same as you but it was the intake cam and rockers everywhere. From the intake side laying strewn about in the head.
 
So far so good. The car has legs for days on the FP3052 compared to the 68HTA.

Maybe it's time for you to upgrade the S16g?

Awesome man I bet it feels great from a dig. Totally agree with you on the turbo upgrade check out my thread on the turbo I was given from a guy who had to sell his set up for personal reason looks like an old school PTE according to a local turbo shop. Going to do a standard rebuild just to be safe and maybe upgrade to a billet wheel if the price is right.
 
Its something else dude, ive had GSC lifters in my head for about 4 maybe 5 years now and all is well, never had any issues! Im pretty sure if its them that caused it then its down to install error or not correctly bled before install! They work perfect but do still sometimes tick but super lightly compares to the old oem ones,

It was hard for me to believe man. I made sure the machine shop was familiar with the process but not being able to do it myself due to schedule and normal life issues I'm paying the price lesson learned!
 
I'd say you jumped timing or its timing related. Not the lifters. When my timing belt went i had exact same as you but it was the intake cam and rockers everywhere. From the intake side laying strewn about in the head.

Thought the same thing timing marks lined up and the belt looked good no abnormal wear. It's a blessing in my eyes at this point going from a s16g for a much bigger set up and now I am able to drop a built block and take advantage of my cams I will keep up to date with you guys here thanks for the quick response!
 
I still don't get it. What exactly is your assumption of how the lifters failed? You say it's the picture of your mind of what happened but didn't really state exactly what it was. They seized, they were pumped themselves full of oil at some point and never discharged, what? If they were too tall from the beginning I would think the problem would have been apparent as they would have bent valves the moment the plunger bottomed down. There's quite a bit of margin in the plunger stroke to accommodate height increase differences and visually your lifters don't really look too much different to my 3G Revised lifters.

I have to agree with some of the folks here and say it sounds more like a timing going haywire issue than a lifter issue.
 
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Thought the same thing timing marks lined up and the belt looked good no abnormal wear. It's a blessing in my eyes at this point going from a s16g for a much bigger set up and now I am able to drop a built block and take advantage of my cams I will keep up to date with you guys here thanks for the quick response!

You said the key way for the exhaust cam gear sheared off? How do the alignment marks line up, if the key way sheared? I agree it sounds like it jumped time. Lifters that are too tall would've reared their head as a problem far sooner than a full dyno session later.
 
I still don't get it. What exactly is your assumption of how the lifters failed? You say it's the picture of your mind of what happened but didn't really state exactly what it was. They seized, they were pumped themselves full of oil at some point and never discharged, what? If they were too tall from the beginning I would think the problem would have been apparent as they would have bent valves the moment the plunger bottomed down. There's quite a bit of margin in the plunger stroke to accommodate height increase differences and visually your lifters don't really look too much different to my 3G Revised lifters.

I have to agree with some of the folks here and say it sounds more like a timing going haywire issue than a lifter issue.

When I say in my mind, I'm not sure how else the motor would of jumped timing like that out of no where when I was driving the car normal. I didn't have a problem to with the tensioner or in other words or noise and never had to tighten it. Why wouldn't it of happened as we were ripping it on the dyno?
 
You said the key way for the exhaust cam gear sheared off? How do the alignment marks line up, if the key way sheared? I agree it sounds like it jumped time. Lifters that are too tall would've reared their head as a problem far sooner than a full dyno session later.

Yes the key way was sheared. I'm not doubting you guys by any means. I staying open minded about the situation once I get back to the shop I will take a picture of the timing marks.
 
When I say in my mind, I'm not sure how else the motor would of jumped timing like that out of no where when I was driving the car normal. I didn't have a problem to with the tensioner or in other words or noise and never had to tighten it. Why wouldn't it of happened as we were ripping it on the dyno?

Another possibility could have been a blocked lifter passage that wouldn't let the lifter discharge keeping it at the extended state? Have you removed them and tried bleeding them and see if there is any hard particulate inside?
 
Even a pumped up lifter would make a racket before failure, and wouldn't cause ALL the valves to bend. I've got a customers bottom end in the shop that had a lifter lock up pumped up. The results were catastrophic to cylinder 3, but it made noise for 50ish miles before completely demolishing the cylinder.

I don't see how the pin could shear and it still be in time. That makes zero sense. If the pin sheared that means the gear moved. I've also seen people toss the belt without any noise or noticeable signs. 99% of the time it's installer error causing it.
 
Another possibility could have been a blocked lifter passage that wouldn't let the lifter discharge keeping it at the extended state? Have you removed them and tried bleeding them and see if there is any hard particulate inside?

I haven't to be honest. Someone local already offered me money for my 7-bolt block and the lifters so they were sold. Told him the situation and he still wanted the lifters and block.
 
Even a pumped up lifter would make a racket before failure, and wouldn't cause ALL the valves to bend. I've got a customers bottom end in the shop that had a lifter lock up pumped up. The results were catastrophic to cylinder 3, but it made noise for 50ish miles before completely demolishing the cylinder.

I don't see how the pin could shear and it still be in time. That makes zero sense. If the pin sheared that means the gear moved. I've also seen people toss the belt without any noise or noticeable signs. 99% of the time it's installer error causing it.

Well the lifters made some noise prior to the dyno session I thought nothing of it tbh. Once the car was up to temp it disappeared. Oil pressure per my new gauge set up was good I was staring at it. Then once I hopped into the car after my shift didn't make it 10 miles. It is what it is at this point the depression stage is over ready for the new setup to be dropped in.
 
Well the lifters made some noise prior to the dyno session I thought nothing of it tbh. Once the car was up to temp it disappeared. Oil pressure per my new gauge set up was good I was staring at it. Then once I hopped into the car after my shift didn't make it 10 miles. It is what it is at this point the depression stage is over ready for the new setup to be dropped in.
It is what it is.
 
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