I screwed my L19's in with a allen key and put them in "snug" but didn't use a breaker bar on them, just tight, maybe 8 ft/lbs, or less, it's just a guess. I read the directions on the ARP's, then did my own thing torque wise. I DID use ARP lube on both sides of the washers and the threads. I have torqued so many head bolts, that you really can feel them "stretch". I never got to that point with the L19's studs and that is a good thing.

I retorque the head after every event or trip to the dyno. Have been doing so for some time. And take my torque wrench with me invade I feel the need while we are there.

Watching people with actually fast cars do it is where I picked up on it. When you make 6-10hp/cubic inch it puts you in the same realm as 2000-4000hp door slammers.

biglady112 said:

I retorque the head after every event or trip to the dyno. Have been doing so for some time. And take my torque wrench with me invade I feel the need while we are there.

Watching people with actually fast cars do it is where I picked up on it. When you make 6-10hp/cubic inch it puts you in the same realm as 2000-4000hp door slammers.

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@biglady112 what are your thoughts on the preloading the stud in the block and the stress loading across the threads?

I'm very interested in your input as you clearly have been around the high HP block many a time.

@biglady112 are you setting your torque wrench to max desired torque (~110 ft/lbs) and snugging each one? Or loosen one and re torque individually in 3 steps until desired torque?

Unless you have washer inserts all you're doing torquing the head down over 100ft/lbs with moly or arp lube is pushing the stock washer into the head casting.

Pretty simple. It is just a fastner. It is not rocked science.

If it is a block I have not done it to, I will run a bottoming tap into each hole. Then clean the holes. I then use whatever moly lube we have on hand and put it on the block side threads. Then thread them in a little and grab my 5/16 hex socket (used an Allen wrench until very recently actually) and drive them into the block until they won't turn anymore. I put them in nice and tight, not hemanned or anything, just good and tight. I then slide the gasket on, then the head.

I grab a deep socket and extension and put all the washers in and drive in the ones that won't clear the springs on their own. I then grab one nut at a time, put lube in the threads and thread them on with the correct socket a little ways. once I have all ten on a little I will run them down semi snug with a ratchet. I then go in three torquing steps in the correct pattern to my desired spec (110-120).

And I am done until we have run the car for a bit of through a few heat cycles. I never untorque the hardware at any point in the process. The only time I back the nuts off is if the head has to come off or we are taking the motor apart.

All that other stuff in those articles is for book nerds. When you are on the road trying to make the next round or pass down the track you just get it done as quickly as you can. All those stupid details are for people who don't have a clue and probably should not be that deep into things if they cant trust their instincts.

We have never had issues with the washers galling the casting and digging in like some have experienced. If course it happens, just have not had to deal with that and I have been into probably over 150 4g63's at this point.

Anyone who followed my build knows that I didn't take any shortcuts. If I could buy it new I did, the block and head were milled flat. The only thing I'm questioning is the head. The head came off the motor that blew two other headgaskets. Looking at the head afterwords I'm kinda wondering if the finish was appropriate for the mls. You could see the cutter marks in the alumnium. I have another head i purchased which I'm again contemplating having remilled because it has some small pitting here and there. The surface finish looks good otherwise and it is flat. As far as the Arp install I always drive the studs in with a Allen key to make sure the stud meets the bottom of the block and loosen a 1/4 turn. I have found that even after chasing the threads sometimes the stud doesn't go in 100%. I installed the stud dry in the block but coated the washer, top of stud and nut with Arp moley lube. I finish torqued to 100ft lbs and checked often. Remember guys I cut every single filter on this motor. Compression tested it after each ride. I was meticulous. Sometimes I guess you got to get lucky?

I have to say my shortblock came out perfect. I'm proud of myself in that respect. The only thing I didn't do is the machine work. I finish honed the block with a deck plate to my specs.... now if I could figure out the head situation. If I could buy a new head I would..... to bad you can't

If my f***ing head would stop leaking I'd have a 10 second setup.....I purchased an act twin disk which is on the way..

I wish I had your kind of money to throw at this stuff.. here I am throwing 28psi at a bone stock (cept for fp2 cams) 100k 92 gsx laughing all the way. driving every single day..

My cousin is a lot like you. He's a machinist by trade but he built all his engines himself and every one has lasted less then 10k miles on a mildly tuned 350ish WHP WRX (22psi). now hes on build number 4 using all new parts and I'm sure this one won't last either. I think people that take their time and overthink everything, worry and wonder about all the small details just don't have the same luck as the guys that are like OH HEY JUNKYARD 4g63 head! I'll throw it on without prepping the surface and it runs great for 5 years until the engine blows from something non cylinder head related.

Bad luck sir. that's my medical diagnosis.

19gsx91 said:

I wish I had your kind of money to throw at this stuff.. here I am throwing 28psi at a bone stock (cept for fp2 cams) 100k 92 gsx laughing all the way. driving every single day..

My cousin is a lot like you. He's a machinist by trade but he built all his engines himself and every one has lasted less then 10k miles on a mildly tuned 350ish WHP WRX (22psi). now hes on build number 4 using all new parts and I'm sure this one won't last either. I think people that take their time and overthink everything, worry and wonder about all the small details just don't have the same luck as the guys that are like OH HEY JUNKYARD 4g63 head! I'll throw it on without prepping the surface and it runs great for 5 years until the engine blows from something non cylinder head related.

Bad luck sir. that's my medical diagnosis.

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Well I could easily build and engine that would last forever at 30 psi, until I felt what 38 psi felt like on the 6266 my life changed forever. It's addicting man....my troubles only exist after 35psi. The motor was fine until I hit 38 psi then it started to leak.

19gsx91 said:

I wish I had your kind of money to throw at this stuff.. here I am throwing 28psi at a bone stock (cept for fp2 cams) 100k 92 gsx laughing all the way. driving every single day..

My cousin is a lot like you. He's a machinist by trade but he built all his engines himself and every one has lasted less then 10k miles on a mildly tuned 350ish WHP WRX (22psi). now hes on build number 4 using all new parts and I'm sure this one won't last either. I think people that take their time and overthink everything, worry and wonder about all the small details just don't have the same luck as the guys that are like OH HEY JUNKYARD 4g63 head! I'll throw it on without prepping the surface and it runs great for 5 years until the engine blows from something non cylinder head related.

Bad luck sir. that's my medical diagnosis.

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What type of turbo are you running? Fuel? At the time of my headgasket failure I was tapping out high z 1650s on e85 at about 38 psi....which brought me to around 60lbs/min. The hp calculator put me in the 650hp territory.......or more in the line of probably 500whp.

You're missing my point completely.. which is kind of frustrating.

Let me put this in a different way as far as my setup. I'd rather be 350-400whp and get to drive it every day. Then be 500whp and be broken down on the weekends. (No offense high horsepower guys, speaking to him specifically)

I'm not saying that you aren't fast. I'm just saying you have bad luck with your setup, as my cousin does with his.. re read my post when you're a bit calmer. You'd have to be upset to quote it directly twice in a row. I'm not bashing or belitting you in any way shape or form. There are plenty of guys here @Kapok6 @donniekak @1990TSIAWDTALON that are running high boost, e-85, and have found a way to keep their setups together.. but I can promise you that none of them put everything together the first time around and lived happily ever after. to be able to drive a car at that kind of power level on the street takes time, money, work and trial and error.

I'm not a high boost, high horsepower guy.. I'm perfectly happy with my setup as it is because it's a daily, and it's more then enough to wipe the smile off of guys faces in 5.0 mustangs and new camaros. I run a 1.5 70-90 time.. for a tdo5 turbo and stock long block? I couldn't ask for more out of it for the money I have into it.

I just hope that one day you hit that moment when your HAPPY with the car. instead of just enjoying it for the week or two before tearing it down because you want to always change something or you don't like a test result.

@keltalon too. Didn't mean to leave you out!

19gsx91 said:

You're missing my point completely.. which is kind of frustrating.

Let me put this in a different way as far as my setup. I'd rather be 350-400whp and get to drive it every day. Then be 500whp and be broken down on the weekends. (No offense high horsepower guys, speaking to him specifically)

I'm not saying that you aren't fast. I'm just saying you have bad luck with your setup, as my cousin does with his.. re read my post when you're a bit calmer. You'd have to be upset to quote it directly twice in a row. I'm not bashing or belitting you in any way shape or form. There are plenty of guys here @Kapok6 @donniekak @1990TSIAWDTALON that are running high boost, e-85, and have found a way to keep their setups together.. but I can promise you that none of them put everything together the first time around and lived happily ever after. to be able to drive a car at that kind of power level on the street takes time, money, work and trial and error.

I'm not a high boost, high horsepower guy.. I'm perfectly happy with my setup as it is because it's a daily, and it's more then enough to wipe the smile off of guys faces in 5.0 mustangs and new camaros. I run a 1.5 70-90 time.. for a tdo5 turbo and stock long block? I couldn't ask for more out of it for the money I have into it.

I just hope that one day you hit that moment when your HAPPY with the car. instead of just enjoying it for the week or two before tearing it down because you want to always change something or you don't like a test result.

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No I totally get your point......But this isn't my first go around. Before I got into Mitsubishi I was into Honda, specifically the h22a engine. Unfortunately when you get past 400hp there is no going back. The stock motor can run at that level easily without much modification at all. Throw in a clutch and some fuel and you have yourself 350hp, that's not much of a challenge in my eyes. The challenge in making this engine capable of 500hp and somewhat reliable is what makes me want to continue. What makes these cars frustrating is that parts are becoming almost impossible to find. If I could buy a new head I would in a heartbeat. I was driving the car around at 25 psi and it did nothing for me honestly. Im never satisfied....I don't think many car guys are really ever satisfied. I don't want people to take my frustration as a white flag. Im not giving up....I wont quit until I reach my goal. Period.

19gsx91 said:

You're missing my point completely.. which is kind of frustrating.

Let me put this in a different way as far as my setup. I'd rather be 350-400whp and get to drive it every day. Then be 500whp and be broken down on the weekends. (No offense high horsepower guys, speaking to him specifically)

I'm not saying that you aren't fast. I'm just saying you have bad luck with your setup, as my cousin does with his.. re read my post when you're a bit calmer. You'd have to be upset to quote it directly twice in a row. I'm not bashing or belitting you in any way shape or form. There are plenty of guys here @Kapok6 @donniekak @1990TSIAWDTALON that are running high boost, e-85, and have found a way to keep their setups together.. but I can promise you that none of them put everything together the first time around and lived happily ever after. to be able to drive a car at that kind of power level on the street takes time, money, work and trial and error.

I'm not a high boost, high horsepower guy.. I'm perfectly happy with my setup as it is because it's a daily, and it's more then enough to wipe the smile off of guys faces in 5.0 mustangs and new camaros. I run a 1.5 70-90 time.. for a tdo5 turbo and stock long block? I couldn't ask for more out of it for the money I have into it.

I just hope that one day you hit that moment when your HAPPY with the car. instead of just enjoying it for the week or two before tearing it down because you want to always change something or you don't like a test result.

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It seems almost as if you've said things wanting a reaction and to expect to rile him up...of which I don't really think worked. He doesn't come off worked up in my opinion.



My 2 cents is that you might not be able to afford the hobby like someone else? And I don't mean that in a condescending way. When "cars" are a hobby for someone sometimes the fun is watching the differences after you change something. Look at how he references his motor build; so to me it's somewhat obvious...


He has enough money to buy an EVO or maybe even GTR. But he prefers something he can tear apart and take from a stock car to 600+ whp himself. I commend him having the money to pay a shop but doing it himself.


He is the type of person a lot of people in the dsm community get jealous of... can buy any part he wants when he wants.

In the end, it's all about each being happy at some point. I am right now. The other guys you mention are really big help, I'm still learning. But from old school to "new", I apply a bit here and a bit there and made a combo I'm happy with right now. It's really never over but I am 80% happy, but mine is purpose built to do just what it does, deceive in appearance and stomp ass when someone gets cocky. I love being the sleeper! Your gonna get there, but it has taken ALL of us a long time. If it weren't for the good people on here, I wouldn't know siht about a DSM, I'm a Chevy guy.
I certainly don't belong but greatly appreciate being even mentioned with the group of fella's you talk so highly of!!!

I sold my 2007 sti to help further my goals with this car. Not that many people understand why I do what I do. Working on my car, researching and helping others on the forum is like therapy for me. When im in my garage wrenching, time stops....its a very important part of my life. The type of car has nothing to do with it. It could be a lawnmower. I have always loved this platform.....I was actually in middle school and my dad went to dodge to buy a Brand new Jeep. At the time all of the eagle talons were out on the lot. I couldn't stop staring.......It was love at first site. I guess my point is, as frustrating as it may be at times, the wrenching is almost as enjoyable as the driving.

Some of MY "growing pains"......

T

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Some of MY "growing pains"......

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That is the new adjustable turbo I see

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Some of MY "growing pains"......

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What the hell? Don't cover up your address so we don't show up to ride in that beast.

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Some of MY "growing pains"......

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.

1990TSIAWDTALON said:

Some of MY "growing pains"......

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happened to that turbo. The damage looks like something was ejected from the exhaust and hit the wheel. Thats impressive

Out of curiosity, what was your ignition timing at peak torque and also your peak ignition timing?

Coolant possibly leaking through your turbo housing into the engine?

amsrn13 said:

Anyone who followed my build knows that I didn't take any shortcuts.

As far as the Arp install I always drive the studs in with a Allen key to make sure the stud meets the bottom of the block and loosen a 1/4 turn.

I have found that even after chasing the threads sometimes the stud doesn't go in 100%.

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Sorry, I didn't mean for that to come off as you were taking short cuts. Just brought it up for conversations sake.

Past that, are you saying you back of the stud 1/4 turn out of the block and then leave it there until during final torque?

If that is not a typo, that might be your problem. That stud must 100% be snugged into the block as deep as it will go. Even after it bottoms out you want to snug it down as "hand" tight as you can.






In the pic you can see stud "B" that is not bottomed out: the stress concentrations are not evenly distributed and will cause the upper threads to deflect more than in stud A that is more evenly distributing the load.

If you chase the threads and still can't get it to bottom out you must find out why and get it tight in the bottom.


As per Biglady:

biglady112 said:

Then thread the studs in a little and grab my 5/16 hex socket (used an Allen wrench until very recently actually) and drive them into the block until they won't turn anymore. I put them in nice and tight, not hemanned or anything, just good and tight. I then slide the gasket on, then the head.

Click to expand...

kmetiuk said:

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to come off as you were taking short cuts. Just brought it up for conversations sake.

Past that, are you saying you back of the stud 1/4 turn out of the block and then leave it there until during final torque?

If that is not a typo, that might be your problem. That stud must 100% be snugged into the block as deep as it will go. Even after it bottoms out you want to snug it down as "hand" tight as you can.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

In the pic you can see stud "B" that is not bottomed out: the stress concentrations are not evenly distributed and will cause the upper threads to deflect more than in stud A that is more evenly distributing the load.

If you chase the threads and still can't get it to bottom out you must find out why and get it tight in the bottom.


As per Biglady:

Click to expand...

What I mean is I tighten the stud down to make sure it seats with the allen wrench back it off and tighten it down as far as it goes by hand. I dont leave it loose if that makes sense. Im starting to consider that my tune is the culprit....

wishihadatalon said:

Out of curiosity, what was your ignition timing at peak torque and also your peak ignition timing?

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18 degrees by 6500 , at 5k im at 15 degrees

That might be why your having head gasket issues....

High teens with e85? I see many users running high timing with e85. I keep it pretty conservative in the low teens. Thoughts? @bastarddsm

Would be nice to see a full 3rd gear pull from 2500 up to redline. Let's see how she runs once it's back together. I enjoy your posts amsrn13. Keep up the great work and pics!