So just in the early stages but here's what I have been working on today. I have been chasing lower temps but under hood air temps and getting air to go through the radiator after passing through the FMIC for years. changed things finally and got her back on the road. She was actually running TOO cold in the spring, wouldn't get above 180* which is what the thermostat was changed to years ago. So now that that's fixed (I thought) I poped in a 195* thermostat, all was perfect for a day or two, then came a 90* day. And I found out, nope..she an barely keep from over heating...like 210-217*F Soooo off came the little shitline fan, garbage as far as I'm concerned and I started modifying a factory fan, almost done with it. Test mounted it today got to tweak one or two small things with the brackets and get the correct length bolts and she's good so long as the J pipe and LICP don't interfere.

Anyway, so part of this is getting the air to go where I want, which means forcing it, via leaving no other easy path. And so we begin. I grabbed several pieced of 1/16" aluminum scrap I had been sitting aside and pade this.





Well... those aren't canards and that's got to go.


Better (still not done)

Acceptable for now, I still have to make several holes in the front near the front of the bottom "lip", I'm going to use every one of them I can to stiffen up the lower lip and make sure nothing moves at high speed.


Not sure if you can tell well, but if you look behind the FMIC you will see what was a 1 3/4" to 2 " gap is now sealed. It went all the way across the bottom of the radiator. So that's a big "hole" closed. Also I'm sure the fog lights being installed again for the first time in like a decade isn't hurting. (long story there, always missed them)

Looks good how are your temps doing? Also I'm guessing the little space inbewteen the lip and bumper is where the air is being directed?

Nice!!I have a big piece EXACTLY like that one made out of plexiglass. I'll be making an aluminum one eventually.

GoCanes777 said:

Looks good how are your temps doing? Also I'm guessing the little space inbewteen the lip and bumper is where the air is being directed?

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Unknown right this moment, as the turbo's off for additional porting. Also going to try to redo the LICP a little better and insulate the top of the J pipe that's nearest the exhaust manifold. In a couple more days she should be on the street again. I got in a bit of a hurry today and ended up sticking my thumb in the guard to the sawzaw...yeah that hurt.. tore off the skin on the tip of my thumb and felt like I hit it with a big hammer. So going to go back to taking my time and not rush slapping it back together with the thought of "i'll come back to that later.. or fix that better..later" we know how that goes.. you don't until it has to come off for something else anyway.

Copy. I'm curious to know your temps after you get your thumb tip is back in order . I only have my current 2g but I see air ducting coming up soon since I just replaced the ac, have a front mount, and ditched the oem fans after I had a failure and cut up my radiator.

Hi. I just want to comment and ask a question, not to insult anyone. For some reason on tuners and in dsm scene in general it is considered bad if engine coolant temps are over 210. Mine I believe turns the fan on like 213 or something around there don't remember on top of my head. Mind you fan is new and temp switch in radiator. Changed it out this winter after fan did not come on once. Anyways I Think if the fans regulate the temp around 210 then it is totally fine. All the cars on the road run this hot if not hotter, new or old. The thermostat will control the temp that it is build for so it will never be lower.

Q. Why do people change to lower temp thermostats? So that it could open at lower temp but the fan what really control how high it gets. With that in mind

Q. How come it's not commen practice to toy around with the switch that controls the fan? Or maybe have something that you can control electronically, like a programmeable module/controller?

I fully support and agree that you need to build ducks and seal that radiator when you install the fmic so please do share how the process and the results are coming alone. I am planning to install mine this spring/summer and over heating and air flow does bother me so I looked outside of the box and leaning towards a way to control fans with small programmable module. Actually have one just need some probes and relay to wire it. But that will wait until I run into the problem.

Brembo said:

Hi. I just want to comment and ask a question, not to insult anyone. For some reason on tuners and in dsm scene in general it is considered bad if engine coolant temps are over 210. Mine I believe turns the fan on like 213 or something around there don't remember on top of my head. Mind you fan is new and temp switch in radiator. Changed it out this winter after fan did not come on once. Anyways I Think if the fans regulate the temp around 210 then it is totally fine. All the cars on the road run this hot if not hotter, new or old. The thermostat will control the temp that it is build for so it will never be lower.

Q. Why do people change to lower temp thermostats? So that it could open at lower temp but the fan what really control how high it gets. With that in mind

Q. How come it's not commen practice to toy around with the switch that controls the fan? Or maybe have something that you can control electronically, like a programmeable module/controller?

I fully support and agree that you need to build ducks and seal that radiator when you install the fmic so please do share how the process and the results are coming alone. I am planning to install mine this spring/summer and over heating and air flow does bother me so I looked outside of the box and leaning towards a way to control fans with small programmable module. Actually have one just need some probes and relay to wire it. But that will wait until I run into the problem.

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If memory serves ECU pulls ignition timing above 210* So it's "bad" in that sense, doesn't mean it's hurting anything. I wouldn't want to see coolant temps above 230* though. That may be a 1G number btw. The 2G is obviously OBDII, which was more emissions focused as well, and hotter engines, tend to burn cleaner so I think 210* is concerned optimal for many OBDII economy focused naturally aspirated engines. I don't have a 2g so I have never paid attention to them much unless a part is being considered for use on my 1g.

As to your first question, a lower temp thermostat delays the higher coolant temps, it doesn't prevent them. Now if the cooling system is fine and can keep temps wherever you want, the point of a cooler temp thermostat may just be one of those attempts to eek every last hp out of an engine. 180* engine vs 210* may see a negligible increase, very likely so small it would be debatable. But it may also move the knock threshold down just enough to eek that last psi of boost out on a drag car. For me it was to delay the high temp, it was stop and go city traffic that caused the main problem, at highway speeds all was fine. So unless I was in bad traffic or hit a lot of lights it did help.

I would suspect the fan controller would be to have a similar means to the same end(s). I'm trying to get my coolant temps to sit at 195* no matter what is going on. As well as keep intake air temps at ambient. In the near future I'll be building a sealed air box that pulls air for the passenger fenderwell. (which is a high pressure area at highway speed)

I have ecmlink and I never saw timing being pulled or at least I didn't realize that it was being pulled. I guess my car is a freak and it runs at 210 without any issues in trafffic or not. With a/c by the way. Anyways thanks for giving me your reasoning and please keep going and show after result. Will be following. Thanks.

RipperXX said:

If memory serves ECU pulls ignition timing above 210

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The wiki on the ECMLink forums can probably give the exact threshold for each ECU as a fact and not as the best recollection of someone who hasn't looked it up in years.

This is the only gap left, at the very bottom of the radiator, it's maybe 1/4". The top is sealed by some foam strips (which you can see at the top), I will try to close it with the same self adhesive foam strips/gasket. The fan is sealed on all sides of the shroud.


I'm undecided on if I should seal this gap, which I intentionally made years ago cutting up the bumper and cover, I could close it with some aluminum sheet metal. forcing all air to go though the FMIC and none allowed to pass though that opening bypassing it.

I have seen some people make the bottom lip differently, they make them angled so it can "scoop" more air into that area, just a thought.

C'LO said:

I have seen some people make the bottom lip differently, they make them angled so it can "scoop" more air into that area, just a thought.

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I have as well, from my limited understanding of fluid dynamics that would make a higher pressure area between the FMIC and radiator, it would increase airflow to the radiator but would decrease flow through the FMIC.

I'm afraid that gap is sort of allowing the same to occurs, what's easier going over the FMIC or through it. Over obviously, then through the radiator. Obviously air is still going through the FMIC, but less than there would be if that gap were sealed.

So I guess I'll try to seal it, forcing all air through the FMIC and then with nowhere left yo go easily, through the radiator.

Been busy with other aspects of married life with 3 children. Should get some time to work on the car this weekend. I have a piece for closing up that gap above the FMIC now.

It's better to have air flow around the fmic prioritizing the radiator. This is what both Andrew Brilliant and I do on our race cars, per his design.

TSiAWD666 said:

It's better to have air flow around the fmic prioritizing the radiator. This is what both Andrew Brilliant and I do on our race cars, per his design.

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I'm glad someone with a car like yours commented, you have far more first hand experience than I.
I assume then you have tried running everything though the FMIC then radiator? What were your findings? Obviously you didn't settle on that but what dramatic was the difference?


Having decided to block it a couple days ago I made a piece today at work, right now it's just sitting in there though. I may wait until she's back on the street and do a with and without comparison.



BTW the welds on the J pipe are NOT my work. Eventually I'll replace that hideous thing.
I did get the OEM radiator fan installed, had to cut the J pipe and alter the angle a bit. Already done, this is a picture I took prior to doing so.

Stupid double post

RipperXX said:

I'm glad someone with a car like yours commented, you have far more first hand experience than I.
I assume then you have tried running everything though the FMIC then radiator? What were your findings? Obviously you didn't settle on that but what dramatic was the difference?

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I didn't do a very scientific test on my own and only sort of convinced myself fmic->radiator alone wouldn't work. The car was a street car somewhere around 360whp-sih and fmic-> radiator just wasn't keeping things cool long enough even in extended spirited driving. I hadn't tried much beyond a thicker radiator though before I went through the metamorphosis to a widebody racecar.

When I picked up the widebody Andrew Brilliant spent a lot of time going over details over the phone. One key detail he explained was that FMIC airflow is just not as critical as radiator, and you can't get enough radiator airflow if you're running them in series (all air through fmic then radiator that is) with typical fmic and radiator dimensions. He said this came first out of airflow simulation and thermal calculations first and then real-world. He said in his testing he found you get plenty of fmic and enough radiator if you let a few inches of airflow gap in the ductwork above the fmic so air can both go over the fmic to the radiator as well as through it to the radiator. So rather than try to reinvent the wheel, I designed my setup like he described and it worked. I trusted he was right based on his engineering knowledge, experience, and flat out success in racing his Eclipse. Iterating changes over a race car can be incredibly time consuming and costly, especially if trials result in failure, so I wanted to go with the plan with the highest chance of success. Now one thing to consider though is that both he and I have other tweaks too to our cooling systems like only one pull fan that's always on while on track (actually, he might have two, I forget, one seems enough for me), a coolant swirl tank, a header tank, and a dual-pass radiator (though Andrew used a simple top-down Fluidyne so this doesn't matter much), so take this all with a grain of salt. Oh we both use oil coolers within the radiator (oil to water) which increases our need for radiator airflow a bit.

TL;DR - I didn't test everything, but Andrew did maths and then testing.

Well in that case, it sounds like I have already arrived at a near optimum setup. I just need to seal up a few more spots on the bottom better and that should be about as good as it's going to get. I'll try it out like it is before I waste time installing the other piece. I'll post the results once it's back up on it's feet. It should be soon, I think I have most everything fitted up now. Thank you TSiAWD.

I'm planning on doing this but using lexan/plexiglass. I have a 2G so it may be easier or harder, i'm not sure as i've not worked on a 1g.
Your work looks top notch, bro!

Between the fan, turbo blanket, and heat shields added in addition to the plate under the front of the car, it never saw more than 206*F and it's a pretty warm day today...hell it took it a good while to warm up! At times I watched it go from 176* to 174*F and laughed thinking it's TOO MUCH! But after a little stop and go and idling it got up to operating temp. Right after pulls it might jump from 196* to 200*F then very fell back to 196* The only time the fan kicked on was after I did a small pull and then pulled over to adjust the boost controller. Rose to 206*F and the fan kicked on, never rose above that, and in the short minute it took me to adjust the controller and pull back onto the road soon as I got moving again it fell quickly back to 200 then 196*F So it would appear the cooling issues are solved. And with the new porting on the turbo even near red line boost never crept above 19psi. Now to move the point at which the controller opens up as close to target boost as I can, hoping that gains a little torque and reduces spool a hair.

I needed a short length of hose to try out the Evo IX recirculation valve, while I have a ton of hose, didn't have any the right size, so I threaded the 1g bov back on for now. Monday i'll stop by the parts store and get a short length of 1 1/2" hose..I think that should work and then hopefully she's pretty much done. Work on the tune a hair more, and take her back to the track soon, throw in some race gas (I can't recall but it was either 103 or 100octane unleaded) They used to have 110 unleaded. :/ and see what she will do.

ETA: well I should re-torque the head studs since I never have since the initial install. Thinking go for 25psi boost if it doesn't knock and hopefully with a decent launch be in the 12s. Last time my launch was horrible, suprisingly tires spun and my one and only pass (due to someones engine blowing and oiling the track down) was a 1.98 I think 60'.... 13.4ET If I had, a 1.7 or something...

This give me hope for my setup.....i run very warm due to the huge HE351VE turbo and the VW MK4 rad I'm running. Runs a warm but any more than a few mins of spirited driving.

Under plate and better ducting was first on my list so with this new info I think I should be good after some alterations.

Good to hear it's working out. Keep updating during mid summer and when you have more miles on set up.

Love these ducting threads always interesting. I agree with what TSiAWD666 said that it's not always best to try to force the air through the FMIC and even the condensor if you have one for cooling. I noticed a big improvement by ducting air up behind the intercooler from underneath (kinda like how a c5 vette gets its cooling).

Small update, still working well. Still haven't had coolant temp go over 206* regardless of driving, ambient temp or stop and go traffic etc. It would seem though that it's a good thing I didn't seal the top between the FMIC and bumper as there was one warmer day that it sat at 200-203 for a few minutes as I was behind a large truck...soon as I had "clean air" again it fell back down to 196. I'm going to work on refining the attachment by adding more points around the edge of the front of the lower portion, and start on sealing up my intake to draw air in from the fender well only as I have seen some higher intake air temps than I want.

Just a quick update, no over heating at all since I made and installed that plate. Car's been down for a few weeks though due to the alternator dying at the worst time. And why replace with another reman unit that costs more when I can upgrade and save money at the same time!