Good day you wonderful tuners...first off thank you for your time!
I have spent the last 7 to 8 hrs correcting base timing (5%), afpr (38psi), tps .63 volts, no boostleaks, and attempting to get a hang of just base tuning...all to no avail. Car is running 15 lbs on 91 Oct.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/bas...-guide.262460/
pretty close to Shane2GSX recommended figures.

Specs for the VR4 include:
20g Turboported
3" MAF and MAF-TranslatorV 2.0 (zerod out and put to stock 450cc)
v3 DSMLink
Wideband 2EO with Gauge
HKS Electric Valve Controller
HKS External Wastegate
660cc Denso Injectors with AFPR
Walbro 255 fp with rewire
Greddy Blow-off valve mounted on top of FMIC
Ross Pistons
Eagle Rods
HKS 262 and 272 Cams

If I could show proof of the amount of time invested looking into tuning this MAFT correctly with DSMLINk it would only prove my stupidity when it comes to tuning Proof includes such links as: http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/maftca...o2#maft_set-up
http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/v3mafa...djustment_tool
http://www.jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration2.html (all of Jeffgst stuff is awesome)
Scott Lainards and Snowborders youtube clips...

Sorry for my inabilities...I just need a good foundation to start tuning this crazed MAFT on my VR4. The MAF Adjust tool throws my mapping crazy..
0 htz to 15.6% to 50 htz to 25% then drops 100 htz to 1.6 %
Please Help you wonderfully knowledgeable people...I dont really know how to remedy this issue. (auto adjust 1 is what I am currently running) Will not even drive the car till I have this base atleast set...definitely not going WOT

So you're running the maf-t and link? I would think they wouldn't work well together. Kinda like safc-2 and link. I would personally take the maf-t out and just use link to tune with. But I very well could be wrong

b00zt3d spyd3r said:

So you're running the maf-t and link? I would think they wouldn't work well together. Kinda like safc-2 and link. I would personally take the maf-t out and just use link to tune with. But I very well could be wrong

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It is the way I bought the vehicle-vented bov, great spooling, etc...know of atleast five different people who have ran this combo with great efficiency and power-me not being one as of yet
http://www.jeffgst.com/gmafcalibration2.html killer setup and power
Just hoping to get some skilled advice so I dont blow things up...MAF-T is zerod out, no boost leaks, etc-first post expounds upon the wise DSMLINK base settings/strive for guide
Thank you
P.S. love the Galant pic GST with PSI...I will fill-out the template after some family time-got some of it posted already . Thank you-

I think what he's trying to tell you is you don't need the translator. Link v3 has integrated gm maf "translation" you just need the cable.

91talonts1 said:

I think what he's trying to tell you is you don't need the translator. Link v3 has integrated gm maf "translation" you just need the cable.

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You are indeed correct sir...

1. No leaks of any kind-tested up to 25lbs

2. Mechanical timing is right.

3. Base timing is at 5 degrees

4. Ignition System plugs have 3k miles on them with NGK BR6ES gapped at .26-previous owner who built the motor suggested to keep them gapped as such.

5. Compression test-waiting on purchasing a tester myself...previous owner shows 800 miles ago that all 4 cylinders where near 175 psi.

6. TPS volts at .63-.65 and TPS at 0 and 100 WOT; ISC 20-40 range (hard to get it to stay at 30).

7. Compression ratio is 8:5:1

8. No known issues

9. No DTC/CEL codes

10. Electrical system rocks at the near 14 volt range-beefy Saturn alternator ftw

11. Base fuel pressure is 37 psi and injector values set at Denso 660’s (MAFT is zeroed out to 450cc as requested by DSMLink)

12. Wideband Sensor is configured correctly to my knowledge. Also have Wideband 2EO gauge in car that registers accurately-would love to get an incorporated one in DSMLink like LC-1 in the near future.

13. 91 OCT at near Mile High altitude.

14. Yes and Yes and all those found on YouTube from Jafro, Scott, and Snowboarder to no avail.

WOW...at a loss for words. Car not only seems way slower then before-without DSMLINK just running MAF-T and datalogger, but now with knock. Have played with timing maps plus or minus a degree or two where I saw knock after dialing in idle and cruise tune. Played around with boost est matching in-car gauge and now it seems I am worse off then ever I need help to say the least. Here is by far the worst log I have compiled yet- nearly 7 degrees of knock Thank you for your time.
-time wasted on trying to get this right is driving me insane I think I have watched all 12 to 15 youtube clips from jafro and scott to no avail, not including the base videos from ECM.
Thank you once again for your greatly appreciated knowledge and aid.

Like the others said, you shouldn't be running a MAF translator with ECMlink. ECMlink will compensate for a 3" GM MAF. You just need to ensure it's wired into the MAF harness properly. Now, I have no idea how to do that, so I'm not the one to ask. However, once it's wired in you simply choose whatever MAF you're running in the drop down under the MAF comp tab.

Personally, I think GM MAF sensor setups are garbage. I'd use an Evo 8 MAF over the GM blow-through setup any day, but that's just me...

If I had to guess, your real problem is your MAF. It's either wired wrong, or configured incorrectly. If you're still running the translator, get rid of it. Your wideband is showing AFR's as rich as ~7:1, yet your ECU is commanding ~12:1 AFR. It's no wonder the car runs like complete shit. It's literally drowning in fuel. Install a better MAF, or get the GM MAF working correctly. Until you do that, we can't help you. Without a real WOT pull It's hard to tell what the real issue actually is (whether it's a config or physical problem).

Lastly, your DA fuel table is too rich. You can download the fuel table from here and copy it to your ECU if you'd like: http://www.dsmtuners.com/attachments/stiggity99directaccess-eda.303436/

I agree with you GST with Psi regarding the MAFT not being comparable with an EVO8 MAF...the way I purchased the vehicle, next purchase will definitely be an EVO8 MAF. I am most certain that the MAF-T is wired up correctly and per the instructions from ECM regarding setting for stock 450cc with the AUX and Base switches. Really started having major issues when trying to tune according to Jeff's http://www.jeffgst.com/boostestcurve.html
Also I have noticed in chatting with others with MAFT that they play with the global scalar some???
Thank you once again for your time, just trying to get this incredible car to run as it should.
Really am so stuck on how to dial this dang thing in, Scott's-plays alot with deadtime and injector size YouTube approach and Jeff GST/DSM wiki seems to be opposite...maybe I should stick with one or the other... I don't know

Did some major tinkering with the MAFT...rechecking all wires and settings...zerod out and reset the fuel values...sure looks a whole lot better with this WOT pull. Boost est is low by about 3-5 lbs though at full spool on the 20g. AFR in the cabin is wayyyyyy closer now as well. 144 seconds is the wot pull at 99% throtpos-dont like the 2.5 degrees of knock. Thank you for your time and any advice in changing mapping, etc.

IDK, dude. Still looks horrible to me. You didn't even bother to upload the fuel table I suggested in my last post...I'll give you a pass this time.

Alright, I pulled a ton of fuel out of your MAF comp table. I also tweaked your DA fuel and timing tables significantly.

Click the links I uploaded below. Download them, and then copy everything over to your ECU (use the "Copy all to ECU" button). You should see changes to your MAF comp table, as well as your timing and fuel DA tables.

Once you copy everything over, do another 3rd gear pull and upload it. WOT from ~2,500 to redline (7,500 in your case). If you see crazy knock abort the pull.

Sorry GST I surely added your tables prior to running the car again...forgot to update the log-that was an earlier post that had a wot pull, I will post it up shortly with these wonderful improvements once the kiddos go to sleep . I cannot thank everyone enough for their patience and knowledge regarding my silliness. Thank you and thank you! Cannot wait to get this beautiful car running well-got to beat the wifee and her coyote Mustang in a few weeks

COVR4355 said:

Sorry GST I surely added your tables prior to running the car again...forgot to update the log-that was an earlier post that had a wot pull, I will post it up shortly with these wonderful improvements once the kiddos go to sleep . I cannot thank everyone enough for their patience and knowledge regarding my silliness. Thank you and thank you! Cannot wait to get this beautiful car running well-got to beat the wifee and her coyote Mustang in a few weeks

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There's got to be more people like this. Thankful and polite. If it were me I would ditch the translator all together and get an Evo maf or switch to speed density. Gstwithpsi is the man at tuning and providing advice. Let us know how she pulls!

...thank you good sir boostdawd-Golden Rule right-Do unto others and as you would do unto yourself . He is indeed...with his tables and settings it runs much better but still has some knock that I am sure I could chip away at with timing and such, though the 3k to 4k WOT pulls seem weak and labored??? Knock of 4.5 degrees at 6400 rpm; also the hiccup of knock at the 300 to 420 MafRaw range . Also had to turn up the frequency way high to get the thing even to want to idle in the beginning. Please look at both logs or one can jump to the edited 2 WOT pulls separated with some cool-down time. GST you rock man and thank you once again for your time!

Meh.

As I suspected, you've got a problem with your MAF. I pulled a metric f*** ton of fuel out of your MAF comp table, and also leaned out the DA fuel table. Even with all that, the car is somehow running just as rich as before. That would suggest to me that this isn't a problem with the fuel settings in ECMlink, but some sort of physical issue with the MAF. I mean, you can keep trying to pull fuel out of the MAF comp table and see if you can ever get the car to lean out, but judging from the logs I've seen, there's a problem with the MAF itself.

Your global fuel is where it should be if you're on 660cc injectors and your BFP is set as you say it is. If either of these values are not true, they will drastically affect fuel delivery, and could be the source of your issue. Are these accurate?

If I had to bet, the MAF is probably wired in wrong, or the MAF itself is just a piece of shit like all the other GM MAFs I've tried to tune. If your GM MAF isn't already plugged directly into the car's harness using the ECMlink cable (https://www.ecmtuning.com/downloads/docs/GM MAF Instructions.pdf) that may be a good place to start. I'm sure you can find a wiring diagram somewhere to do the job manually, just remember, the Galant MAF harness is different than the 1G. There are plenty of ways to dick up the wiring if you don't know what you're doing.

An unlikely, but possible issue, could be an issue with the wideband reading stupid. I just noticed your WB is assigned to the front O2, but you're not simulating it. Under the "ECU Inputs" tab, you need to select "Front O2" from the drop down by where it says "Wideband (WB):" . Unless you do this, the ECU will not have an O2 sensor to reference during closed loop operation.

How is the MAF wired in?

How is the wideband wired in? Can you confirm your WBO2 is working correctly and calibrated?

Can you confirm your injectors size and BFP?


At this point, you need to either:

1) Fix the GM MAF
2) Swap to an Evo or 3G MAF
3) Pick up IAT and MAP sensors and swap to SD

Your car is currently un-tunable. I'd refrain from driving and beating the crap out of it in its current state.

Just an fyi, the translator and maf is not as bad as advertised. It was all we had for years. It worked well enough for us to make over 750hp and go 218mph at the salt flats.

And no you cannot wire the maf directly into the ecu. The proprietary cable that Tom and Dave supply has a nifty little daughter board full of resistors and such. We have had two fail, one from impact damage the other water. I cut all the sheathing back on both to try and repair them to no avail. Both had to be sent back to ecmtuning to be replaced.

You can try cleaning the mass air flow sensor. The three wires in there are notorious for getting dirty and flaking out. They are easy enough to come by and easy to work with. No need to redesign the whole car just because someone does not understand how to use something.

Too bad you are on the western slope now. I probably could have the car licked in no time and running like it was suppose to if you were still in denver. Sorry for my late response. I don't spend much time on the internet anymore. It is spent in the garage these days or in the mountains.

There is more to tuning than looking for knock. It is just a pet peeve of mine how the Mitsubishi guys are so hard up to tune for no knock. Tuning a turbocharged 600cc motorcycle for the salt flats with AEM taught me to trust myself and the machine more. With that said, you could certainly expand your datalogging. A map sensor is always a good idea and really helpful and cheap with the gm maf. you can never have enough data.

Yeah, that's true. My car came with the gm MAF and ecmlink cable. It had this weird computer chip fused into the middle of the cable. I wish I hadn't thrown it away otherwise I'd send it to you.

GST with PSi I cannot thank you enough for you time and insight regarding this crazed thing...I am diving into trying every thing other then spending the additional 200+ bucks to go SD or 3g or EVO MAF and change ic piping right now- cleaning all connectors and MAF and looking over every wire for the MAFT. Once again GST with PSI you rock for your brilliant attempt at an unsolvable tune as the car sits. Biglady thank you for getting back and you are indeed correct at my silliness for being in the Western Slope...if I was in the Denver Metro Area I would be hounding Chris or yourself for sure I will get back sometime tomorrow with some hopeful good news regarding this. Thank you all for your time and esteemed knowledge

Answering Questions from GST: the BFP is at 39 lbs and global fuel is indeed set to the calibrated Denso 660cc settings.
Once I have the time tomorrow I will recheck the wiring of the MAF and MAFT.
The assigned WB is something that was played with and not changed back, playing with my 2EO with Gauge Wideband to no avail.
Checked and confirmed WBO2 is calibrated viaOnce again injectors are 660cc Denso and 39 lb BFP.

COVR4355 said:

GST with PSi I cannot thank you enough front for you time and insight regarding this crazed thing...I am diving into trying every thing other then spending the additional 200+ bucks to go SD or 3g or EVO MAF and change ic piping right now- cleaning all connectors and MAF and looking over every wire for the MAFT. Once again GST with PSI you rock for your brilliant attempt at an unsolvable tune as the car sits. Biglady thank you for getting back and you are indeed correct at my silliness for being in the Western Slope...if I was in the Denver Metro Area I would be hounding Chris or yourself for sure I will get back sometime tomorrow with some hopeful good news regarding this. Thank you all for your time and esteemed knowledge

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biglady112 said:

No need to redesign the whole car just because someone does not understand how to use something.

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I'll assume your statement was aimed at me, and I stand by my statement and personal experience that GM MAF sensors suck. My opinion has nothing to do with my comprehension of how the sensor works, or how it should be tuned. Will they work? Sure. But, there are much better solutions out there, IMO. I told the OP how the sensor should be employed should he choose to keep it.

BTW, you don't need to redesign the whole car. You could make the swap to SD by simply adding 2 sensors. Then, replace the GM MAF with a straight coupler. Done.

The sensor bundle would cost $95 dollars from ECMlink, and a coupler is like $10 bucks. For that $105 bucks you get a car that's exponentially more reliable and easier to tune. This isn't rocket science...There's a reason people aren't using GM blow-through setups anymore.

biglady112 said:

There is more to tuning than looking for knock.

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Did someone suggest there isn't?

Gosh, you youngins and your new technology. You want a new purse with all your new little sensors? In my day $105 could net you an almost-new Model T.

Seriously though, there is no reason to run the GM MAF anymore and it doesn't even sound cool like speed density.

A used gm maf sensor will tend to have some oily lint/dust on the three hot wires used to sense air flow. When this happens, the sensor is slow to react due to the oily lint/dust creating a heat sink. If you reach your hand into the back of the maf sensor and wipe off the front and back of the three hot wires with your pinky(its a big strech for your fingers) the sensor should work better, especially if you do remove some dirt off the wires.
My cousin had a gm truck that was running like crap and he was ready to get rid of it. We took out the gm sensor and cleaned it like I described and the truck was back to running good immediately.

Thank you everyone for responding...wanting to pull out my hair was this silly thing Well today's joy was rechecking boost leaks-blow-off valve starts to leak at 20 lbs, but anything below that is golden, have the car set to 12 lbs as of now.
Took out the GM MAF inspected and cleaned...rechecked all the wires going to and from the MAF-Translator-all in order. At a loss for words regarding the inability to tune this thing.
Most likely will take the plunge for Speed Density (SD): http://www.ecmtuning.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=50
If I go SD dont I have to do the following:
1. purchase the aforementioned SD Bundle.
2. Take Intake Manifold to welder to weld bung in.
3. Then follow the sdsetup on ECMtuning http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/sdsetup
4. Pull out the MAF-Translator and GM MAF /or should I keep the GM MAF and use it with Speed Density?
Thank you all for your attempts and knowledge in aiding me and this crazed MAFT.

COVR4355 said:

If I go SD dont I have to do the following:
1. purchase the aforementioned SD Bundle.
2. Take Intake Manifold to welder to weld bung in.
3. Then follow the sdsetup on ECMtuning http://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/sdsetup
4. Pull out the MAF-Translator and GM MAF /or should I keep the GM MAF and use it with Speed Density?
Thank you all for your attempts and knowledge in aiding me and this crazed MAFT.

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Yes, you'll need to get a bung installed for the IAT. It's typically installed in the cold side upper intercooler pipe, or TB elbow: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/speed-density-iat-sensor-install-pre-or-post-throttlebody.469680/

The MAP sensor can be mounted anywhere.

I'd also recommend the plug and play SD cable from ECMlink for ease of install, however it's not required: http://www.ecmtuning.com/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=52

Anyone here can walk you through the SD setup. It's pretty simple. Just ensure you've assigned your new sensors to ECU inputs, and the rest is fairly straight forward.

Ditch the GM MAF once you switch to SD. It's no longer needed at that point. You could consider putting it up for sale to recoup a few bucks.

The SD bundle makes for a plug and play harness but is not needed and u can rewire it yourself. For ease of install and simplicity I would opt in for the bundle harness.

Like my boy gst with psi mentioned u don't need to weld the bung on the intake manifold but rather the intercooler piping closest to the throttle body.

U would be able to ditch the maf altogether and just replace it with a coupler.

Let us know how it turns out.

I mildly document my SD conversion in my build thread:

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/1g-build-return-of-the-dsmer.508399/