1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
40psi hold

2). Verified mechanical timing?
yea
3). Verified base timing?
yes
4). Ignition system
oem .
Bpr7es .28
5). Motor health (Compression Test)
Not measured yet.

6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments?
solid
7). Compression ratio
9.5:1
8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
no
9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
no
10). Electrical system
solid

11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
Base Fuel Pressure:45
Injector Size (cc/min):750

12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
Sensor Brand:aem
Calibration Date:....

13). Type of fuel
93 pump

14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?
With a passion.
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If you have seen my build thread, then you know my stuff is on point. Yrs of mistakes and patience has lead to this....
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So this is a light conservative WOT tune.
I have no intention of going past 8psi for right now. Because shes still less than 500 miles from rebuilt.
This is simply so i can have a little smile while i daily "granny" drive her, so i can break her in... Yes eventually i plan on hitting 30psi and seeing were i land.





This is my question...
At around 4-5000Rpm AFRest suggest 9-10AFR but many threads suggest 11-12AFR on WOT....
So i leaned out a little to reach 11, i began to knock. So instead of adding fuel i pulled timing and reduced knock.

1) Is this the right way to go about this?? How would you do it??

2) Should i always match AFRest(on wot) no matter how rich it gets? it suggest pretty rich at times.

3) I Got high KNOCK at 3rd gear 3kRPM For some odd reason..... i dont know if its because i started my 3rd gear pull so early, since i didn't see that on my other pulls were i started WOT a little after.

Thanks guys, I'm exited to finally be here..

P.s Boost matches all data.

Before any adjustments

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After Today's pulls

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Knock Log

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Your DA fuel table is far too rich. I shoot for 11.0:1 on pump gas tunes. You are at 9.5-9.6, which is way too rich. You can grab the fuel table from here if you'd like: http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/98...annot-boost-past-20psi.503630/#post-153591818

Zero out the timing adjustments you've made to the timing table in the ECU config tab. That's for temporary adjustments between pulls. Any changes made to this should be reflected and made permanently in the DA timing table.

You SD table is pretty choppy. It definitely needs some work.

Are you still using a stock O2 sensor in conjunction with the WBO2? If not, you should be simulating the O2 via your wideband, which is not currently configured.

As always I appreciate your feedback, thanks for the help.


^ yes front 02 and aem WBr1
Didn't think it was required.

I don't understand, d.a is the direct access but which fuel tab? I'm unfamiliar with the entire D.A section. Including timing in D.A. max ,min ? Don't know their used.

Yes it's choppy but this was the best ..

How do I get a ARrEst to read 11 when it does as it pleases.

Edit**** I did a comparison, I get . I think. The octane is the fuel and the max timing; timing. Wasn't Aware you use da and not ecu config to tune.

So copy paste repeat.....got it.

So is the 11 in the da nothing more than a trace value you use to match your actual afr. I assume it doesn't change anything but what you aim for. ?

But this must not be the same for timing since that's how you reduce knock......?

My apologies if I cause any frustration.

^ so i read the thread you linked. And the threads linked, within that thread and so forth. Essentially answering my own questions. Thanks for spending so much time helping others as it's inadvertently helped me.

Now that I have a stronger grasp. I can ease off all the questions. As far as the "choppy" Ve cells, should I always try to calculate ( #' s ) that more closely match the neighboring cells . I.e calculate the average or range.
Thanks again for the links.

GST with PSI said:

Are you still using a stock O2 sensor in conjunction with the WBO2? If not, you should be simulating the O2 via your wideband, which is not currently configured.

Click to expand...

.. I chose R1aem wb (on link). as it reflects exactly the actual gauge .
I've read if your fortunate to experience this, then no calibration is required.

Disregard my inquiry about your O2. I see now in you log that you have a stock O2 as well as the AEM wideband. So long as you have a stock sensor, there's no need to simulate it via the wideband.

Regarding the choppy VE cells, it's not a huge deal since your AFRs seem to line up pretty closely with your target AFRs. However, you'll find that the car will run better and make more power if the transitions between cells are smooth and linear. When you have large jumps from cell to cell, it can cause a number of issues. Some people will tell you it doesn't matter how pretty the VE table looks, but I'd strongly disagree with that statement based on my personal experience. The smoother the table looks, the smoother it will operate.

Regarding my statement above about the various issues caused by a choppy VE table: One of the concepts to consider here, is the the ECU will reference multiple SD table cells at one time (up to 4) to get target AFR for a given RPM/load value. Because of this, large variations in a group of cells will f*** things up. Although Linktools is no longer available, I'd strongly you take a look at one of the videos which explains this concept. When you understand where exactly your target VE values are coming from, it will allow you to make more accurate adjustments. Pay close attention around 0:50 in the video:




Lastly, your car is running warmer than I'd prefer. What's your thermostat rated at? At cruise, you should be fairly near the T-stat rating. You're at 206*-210*, which is pretty warm at speed. At 206* the ECU will start pulling timing IIRC.

I had no idea... 206 F and ecu retarding timing? I have been intentionally running at over 200 F for years... How can we verify this?

I can't remember where I originally saw the data posted. But from my own notes:

If: X < 206° = full timing
If: X > 206° but < 224° = -1°
If: X > 224°= -2°

@steve could you please confirm. Also, this this same for 1G and 2G cars?

^ I have a 170f thermos.
My AEM gauge is much lower than what link displays. (190-206).. I'm partly bias in trusting AEM on this...

I also added 2x axillary radiators
(oil coolers) which increase the rate of cooling. Doesn't make things cooler just the heat transfer.
Plus sheet metal ducting..

I run a 190F t-stat. Ideal oil temps for flow and lubrication are around 230-250F, typically oil should run a bit warmer than coolant. It works better.

miliman13 said:

^ I have a 170f thermos.
My AEM gauge is much lower than what link displays. (190-206).. I'm partly bias in trusting AEM on this...

I also added 2x axillary radiators
(oil coolers) which increase the rate of cooling. Doesn't make things cooler just the heat transfer.
Plus sheet metal ducting..

Click to expand...

Yeah, I think I remember you mentioning you were dealing with cooling issues in your build thread. On a 170* T-stat you should definitely be seeing under 200* at cruise. Obviously ambient temperature will have some effect on that, but I still think your temps are too high for my liking. The OEM temp sensor is actually pretty accurate (the one for the ECU, not the temp gauge).

Do you have shrouding on the back side of the radiator?

Oil wont flow or lubricate as well if you run it below op temp. Can I ask why you want it that low? What is your idea of an ideal oil temp?

Below 212F and your oil will absorb water, it's hydroscopic.

GST with PSI said:

Yeah, I think I remember you mentioning you were dealing with cooling issues in your build thread. On a 170* T-stat you should definitely be seeing under 200* at cruise. Obviously ambient temperature will have some effect on that, but I still think your temps are too high for my liking. The OEM temp sensor is actually pretty accurate (the one for the ECU, not the temp gauge).

Do you have shrouding on the back side of the radiator?

Click to expand...

Roger, there's two shrouds. One for the rad fan , the other for ac fan.
I've diluted the mixture and even added waterWetter. Just for sakes.

I looked it up and others tend to run similar temps and there's absolutely nothing else left on the table available to me since I've done everything to reduce heat..

In the threAd I used: heat paint ,heat wrap, heat blanket, turbo blanket, sheet metal shield, ducting , shrouds, distilled h20 70/30 mix, 170f thermo, mishimoto fans
( which you dis-like ), half rad.................... "breath"..................2x oil coolers as axillary rads..... ect.. .
So I've concluded it's not getting any cooler.
And supposedly 206-220 is acceptable as " safe " based on all platforms, not just our diamonds.

@GST with PSI

Is 11.0:1 based on Oem internals or aluminum pistons ?
And from your experience is it true that one can slightly lean past 11. Or does this lead to melted pistons?

GST with PSI said:

I can't remember where I originally saw the data posted. But from my own notes:

If: X < 206° = full timing
If: X > 206° but < 224° = -1°
If: X > 224°= -2°

@steve could you please confirm. Also, this this same for 1G and 2G cars?

Click to expand...

Enter ECU Learn Mode :: 180F (82C)
Coolant Fan ON LOW :: 210F (99C)
Pull 1 degree timing :: 206F (97C)
Pull 2 degree timing :: 224F (107C)
Coolant Fan ON HIGH :: 224F (107C)
Enter Open Loop Mode :: 228F (109C)
Default Coolant CEL :: 235F (113C)
A/C Override :: 240F (115C)
2g coolant points courtesy of ecmlink's knowledge base. I don't think the 1g ECU does the same thing with timing as it uses the ECT sensor differently.

miliman13 said:

@GST with PSI

Is 11.0:1 based on Oem internals or aluminum pistons ?
And from your experience is it true that one can slightly lean past 11. Or does this lead to melted pistons?

Click to expand...

As a starting point, I shoot for 11.0:1 AFR on any pump gas car. The engine internals aren't a factor. I'll richen or lean the mix slightly based on the setup, fuel grade, and feedback seen in logs while tuning the car. 11.0:1 will give you sufficient cushion to lean slightly during a pull and be fine. I've found a slightly leaner mix (closer to 11.5:1) makes better power, but tends to knock more easily. A richer mix is typically safer, but makes less power. Anything richer than 10.5:1 is too rich, IMO. 9.5:1 is stupid rich, and you're just wasting fuel at that point.




Now, E85 is an entirely different animal, and where the real power is made

No such thing, anywhere near for me...

Back to temps, so I'm *okay*?

You're not running hot enough to hurt anything. As stated above the ECU will pull timing starting at 206*, which is obviously not ideal, but from what I see your temps are somewhat similar to what my car runs. Mine will drop below 200* cruising but only if your cruising at a steady low rpm for a good 10-15 minutes or so.

@GST with PSI
Along with the fuel map you linked, should I also upload the timing map you posted on the same thread? Seems more conservative than stock...

At wot what is the ( min,max ) timing one should have before causing damage i.e melted piston?
Read allot of horror threads, no Real consequences.

There's no set timing numbers to reach, each setup will be different. I didn't look at your timing tables but the stock 2g is the least aggressive of the timing maps, it's usually a good starting point. Just be sure to set your knock cel to no more than 3* and if you see it flash in the slightest immediately let out. http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/tuning-with-ecmlink-v3.448002/
This has a lot of great information, not sure if you've seen or been linked to it yet.

@91talonts1
Yes that's a great thread, it re-enforces all that has been stated on this thread.
I'm very appreciative of all the support.

You car is running richer than Donald Trump.

The only thing i noticed is that my physical gauge at WOT is more like 10 Vs the 11 the displayed values show...... Wonder if its common.
* Which do i trust more ?

*Oh and i noticed my AEM stayed around 180-200F the whole time.. The sensor it post thermostat in the housing just FYI...

So i uploaded the timing and octane map Gst provided.
And i had to pull timing in the DA
I did some {interloping} in both maps, by its obviously it needs more attention.
For now, since its temporary i believe it will do since i have to focus my attention on my greatest adversary.......Calculus......... i'm retaking it and need to get back to it again, And meps inst being

friendly either so theirs that.

Thanks guys..... those who contributed

Ill bring this back later when ever i break her in further.