Upgrading to 16g turbo

eddyspaghetti · Jan 9, 2017

Hi everyone, happy new year first off, thank you for opening this thread
So...
I've been thinking of upgrading from the t25 to the big 16g turbo. I'm not to sure what else It is i need in order to do this, but right now I currently have :

1. CAI
2. Intercooler
3. Intercooler pipes
4. bov
5. Performance Exhaust manifold
6. Gates RPM timing belt
7. Manual boost controller
8. Megan racing aftermarket exhaust (down pipe too)
9. Guages
10. Front strut bar
11. Rear strut bar

How far am I? Am I half way their with what I have? What else do I need?? Any help would be much appreciated, thank you and happy new year

joejoe · Jan 9, 2017

I see you have a boost controller...so you plan on running more then stock psi... how much power do you want?

300hp?
Evo 3 16g. Will flow more then big 16g.
At least 750cc injectors for pump gas.
Don't need it but an aftermarket fpr is a good idea.
Walbro 255.
Fuel pump rewire.
Dsmlink.
Wideband.
Clutch that will hold the torque. Stock will but not for long.
If staying with 2g maf, keep the bov recirculated.
Arp head studs.
Stock cams will do for now.
Stock intake will do for now.

unless your t25 is toast..Don't put the 16g in until you're ready...
I have installed bigger turbos before I'm ready.... better off waiting.

luii90 · Jan 9, 2017

Arp head studs, bigger injectors if you plan to run more boost if not wastegate pressure will be fine on stock injectors. And a tune if you do plan to go with bigger injectors such as 99 reflashable ecu or dsmlink which ever version or evo 8 ecu.

Just purchase a spyder 99 gst, just finished installing e316g with billet wheel similar to fp68hta with injectors 1200's arp heastuds cams, dejon smic, basic bolt ons and lsd tranny. Reflashed ecu on e85 right now. I flew by with mods because I had parts laying around from previous cars I had in the past.

If in a budget get the 16g and leave it on wastegate pressure for now. If I missed anything chime in guys.

eddyspaghetti · Jan 9, 2017

luii90 said:
Arp head studs, bigger injectors if you plan to run more boost if not wastegate pressure will be fine on stock injectors. And a tune if you do plan to go with bigger injectors such as 99 reflashable ecu or dsmlink which ever version or evo 8 ecu.

Just purchase a spyder 99 gst, just finished installing e316g with billet wheel similar to fp68hta with injectors 1200's arp heastuds cams, dejon smic, basic bolt ons and lsd tranny. Reflashed ecu on e85 right now. I flew by with mods because I had parts laying around from previous cars I had in the past.

If in a budget get the 16g and leave it on wastegate pressure for now. If I missed anything chime in guys.

OK, so basically all I need now is performance head studs, fuel injectors (I'm thinking 650cc ?)
a dsm link ( is that best one to go with?) AND of course the 16g turbo? Oh and a external wastegate? I forgot to mention I am on a budget too. When tuned right, how much hp would I be pushing then ?

joejoe said:
I see you have a boost controller...so you plan on running more then stock psi... how much power do you want?

300hp?
Evo 3 16g. Will flow more then big 16g.
At least 750cc injectors for pump gas.
Don't need it but an aftermarket fpr is a good idea.
Walbro 255.
Fuel pump rewire.
Dsmlink.
Wideband.
Clutch that will hold the torque. Stock will but not for long.
If staying with 2g maf, keep the bov recirculated.
Arp head studs.
Stock cams will do for now.
Stock intake will do for now.

unless your t25 is toast..Don't put the 16g in until you're ready...
I have installed bigger turbos before I'm ready.... better off waiting.

Yes, the MBC came with the care already installed

Yep, I want be pushing a little over 300 hp...for now, but yep that's the goal, and thank you for the reply

Oh and my gsx is an automatic , would that be a problem?

joejoe · Jan 9, 2017

650cc will work great.
External wastegate only if your exhaust mani or o2 housing is set up for it. If the o2 housing is not setup for external and exhaust mani is block the wastegate port on the mani and just run the internal wastegate on turbo. save some money.
Automatic.... no problem at all.... Automatic=awesome haha. I like 5 speeds but auto is awesome.
They have some mods you can do to the auto for fairly cheap that you can benefit from... search around. I'm not too familiar with those mods.

Also i tell every new member who maybe shopping for a turbo to check out and pm
This member.... jusmx141
He can set you up with a great turbo and is top notch at what he does.

Nathan1993 · Jan 9, 2017

And if you are doing the timing belt and head studs, it wouldn't hurt to do the head gasket with a MLS. Depending on the boost you want to run, an MLS is better than composite.

Teezy · Jan 9, 2017

This has to have been asked about 1000 times. You need an oil feed line, I recommend going with JNZtuning's oil filter housing oil feed line kit. I would just buy and OEM 2g return line, but you're missing a j-pipe. I personally went with no coolant lines because the setup is a little more simple, but you need a turbo timer. Why do you want an aftermarket manifold? Just use the stock manifold with ARP bolts. Fuel pump, injectors, DSMlink or ceddymods etc.

doubleclutch · Jan 9, 2017

The E316G is great. I just did this mod myself. under 22 lbs, you shouldn't have to worry about head studs. I am running 20lbs, with a garbage tune and have hit 300 hp. You will need injectors (650s are ok but a little bigger would be fine too) fuel pump (no need to go to a 255 unless you are going to buy a afpr). Fuel pump rewire (STM has a nice kit. The real kicker is all the little parts ot make it work. Gaskets, hoses, plugs. I made a list of things that I used and links to buy them. Make sure you do not feed the turbo from the oil housing.

Last but not least. USE THE SEARCH BUTTON. I know the information is on this site because it is what i used.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/16g-installation-parts-list.502214/

Dsmkauai · Jan 9, 2017

You can't just throw a Mls on. And what's your proof the mls is better than oem composite? It all depends on the surface prep if it's not done right it will be worse. Plenty of guys on here running them with high boost. Shoot I had my gst' oem headgasket on for 240k never had one issue. Even after the balance shaft belt took out my bottom end it was still sealing perfect LOL

. And I even swapped in arp's one at a time and always ran around 18-20psi. If your on a budget then get some arp's swapped in. Ecmlink, wideband and biggest injector you can afford I wouldn't go smaller than 750-850's. And you can stay with the stock exh mani or a fp would be great. You don't need a external gate, get a holset actuator and do some port work on the turbine housing. Worked amazing for me and held boost solid. My gst setup was all budget and used parts

WisconsinMonSTAR · Jan 9, 2017

Fuel pump (Walbro 190/ 255+AFPR/evo 8 or 9)

Clutch (XTD stage 4 lasted me 20k miles of heavy use and abuse, only cost $150 for the kit I used. More expensive options are out there)

Injectors (650cc will work, but somewhere closer to 1000cc will provide more room for growth)

Most importantly, you'll need a way to control everything and tune your setup right. Ecuflash is a cheap option. DSMlink is more expensive but is the staple as far as tuning our platform.

Also I am on stock 7 bolt head bolts with an MLS headgasket running 21 psi on a 16g variant. You can push the stock stuff pretty far with semi decent tuning.

lasershark · Jan 9, 2017

joejoe said:
Clutch that will hold the torque. Stock will but not for long.

I can contest to this, stock clutch is good to roughly 18psi for about three months

this is with a pretty decent tune with water meth. Once it starts to slip you will have to turn the boost lower and lower till the car is not fun anymore

Southbend clutch is a great option :thumb:

eddyspaghetti · Jan 10, 2017

joejoe said:
I see you have a boost controller...so you plan on running more then stock psi... how much power do you want?

300hp?
Evo 3 16g. Will flow more then big 16g.
At least 750cc injectors for pump gas.
Don't need it but an aftermarket fpr is a good idea.
Walbro 255.
Fuel pump rewire.
Dsmlink.
Wideband.
Clutch that will hold the torque. Stock will but not for long.
If staying with 2g maf, keep the bov recirculated.
Arp head studs.
Stock cams will do for now.
Stock intake will do for now.

unless your t25 is toast..Don't put the 16g in until you're ready...
I have installed bigger turbos before I'm ready.... better off waiting.

Something that came to me , I found some oil in my cold air intake? I hate to say this but, what does that mean? How and what can I check to see if it's toast?

jimsgsx · Jan 10, 2017

Someone mentioned in a post above to get a oil filter housing oil feed. Disregard that and run a ss oil feed line from the head. 16gs need to be oil fed from head.

2gmitsueclipse · Jan 10, 2017

It is perfectly acceptable to run an oil feed line from the oil filter housing. The proper restrictor is needed to do so.

1cleangsx · Jan 10, 2017

I fed my evo3 16g unrestricted from the ofh with no problems, from what I understand journal bearing turbos require greater oil pressure than what they would otherwise get from the head. BB turbos are the opposite? Correct me if I'm wrong, Also I think the greatest mod to a well tuned setup is ecmlink, I actually ran full e85 on fic 650's at 20 psi, idc's were low 90's I later upgraded to 950's but the point is there's no replacement for the ability to data log and getting your car to run the best it can with what you have

Dsmkauai · Jan 10, 2017

It's not pressure its volume! You shouldn't be running off the ofh without the proper restrictor. If the pressure gets to high it will blow out the oil seals in the turbo. It's either off the head like a 14b or off the ofh with a restrictor. My 16g was always off the head and never had a issue. If I would have had my oil pressure gauge at the time I would have ran off the ofh. But only after checking the pressure and making/getting the proper restrictor.

drcolt · Jan 21, 2017

Has a compression test been done? Has a leak down test been done?
I wouldnt change the headgasket just yet. What is the history on the car with respect to maintenance?

'90 GS TURBO · Jan 30, 2017

eddyspaghetti said:
Hi everyone, happy new year first off, thank you for opening this thread
So...
Honestly the simplest thing it just to look up another persons build guide, but you need ecmlink, bigger injectors,
a better fuel pump, probably should get an egt gauge, other items mentioned above and other then that your good

Reverendlimeter · Jan 30, 2017

You don't necessarily need to do all the supporting mods if you are on a budget. Simply build a logging cable and get logging. I just upgraded to a s16g from a cracked 14b and have only been keeping and eye on the data log. I am only running 12 psi (I know huge boost) and with no signs of knock or fuel cut. This is my daily driver, and not the first vehicle I have modded. Now I am trying to figure out if I go ostrich or v3... Have tunerpro and coding experience so may try to find a few bucks. After that it will be fuel pump, injectors, and SD then I will work the boost up to the corner of the compressor efficiency map.

doubleclutch · Jan 31, 2017

obviously @ 12psi you are making no more power (and using no more fuel) then you were with your 14b. Hence you should have no driveability issues. Bigger turbo does not mean bigger power.

pauleyman · Jan 31, 2017

doubleclutch said:
obviously @ 12psi you are making no more power (and using no more fuel) then you were with your 14b. Hence you should have no driveability issues. Bigger turbo does not mean bigger power.

12 psi is not the only number. Bigger turbo does mean bigger power even at the same psi. In this case, a 16g, stock fueling should handle things on an otherwise stock car.

pauleyman · Jan 31, 2017

OP will need fuel is he adds that entire list

Reverendlimeter · Jan 31, 2017

In regards to my 12psi, with the 14b I was at 14 psi and was consuming about the same amount of fuel. I set my boost based on only hitting 70% duty cycle since I was logging at my home elevation at 8700'. The butt dyno shows I am probably the same amount of power, but there is definately more top end. I did have a cracked 14b hotside, and went to a 2g exhaust manifold at the same time.

1991 GSX Current mods:
Boost Gauge
DIY data log Cable
Tunerpro RT for datalogging only
S16G
2g exhaust manifold
3" turbo back with one piece downpipe o2 elbow
High flow cat
Hacked airbox
Stock maf

My point is more that I have a solid budget upgrade path. My end goal is to mantain daily driver status, and incrementally work towards the 350-400 ish club.
Future mods in order over time:
1. WbO2 since duty cycle tuning is pretty sketchy imho
2. Pump wire and wally 190
3. Ostrich or V3
4. Injectors
5. SD + IAT
6. Upgrade intercooler
7. Break stuff
8. Fix stuff
9. FP 68HTA
10. Repeat steps 7 and 8
*Nearly all steps result in boost changes and datalogging break stuff exempt

doubleclutch · Feb 1, 2017

Reverendlimeter said:
In regards to my 12psi, with the 14b I was at 14 psi and was consuming about the same amount of fuel. I set my boost based on only hitting 70% duty cycle since I was logging at my home elevation at 8700'. The butt dyno shows I am probably the same amount of power, but there is definately more top end. I did have a cracked 14b hotside, and went to a 2g exhaust manifold at the same time.

1991 GSX Current mods:
Boost Gauge
DIY data log Cable
Tunerpro RT for datalogging only
S16G
2g exhaust manifold
3" turbo back with one piece downpipe o2 elbow
High flow cat
Hacked airbox
Stock maf

My point is more that I have a solid budget upgrade path. My end goal is to mantain daily driver status, and incrementally work towards the 350-400 ish club.
Future mods in order over time:
1. WbO2 since duty cycle tuning is pretty sketchy imho
2. Pump wire and wally 190
3. Ostrich or V3
4. Injectors
5. SD + IAT
6. Upgrade intercooler
7. Break stuff
8. Fix stuff
9. FP 68HTA
10. Repeat steps 7 and 8
*Nearly all steps result in boost changes and datalogging break stuff exempt

We are essentially at after the same thing, I am just @ #5 on your list. Looks like your plan makes sense to me. As far as more power on the top end, i am not sure where the 14b falls off (i assume it can't hold 14 psi to redline) but the 16g can which should explain more top end power.

pauleyman said:
12 psi is not the only number. Bigger turbo does mean bigger power even at the same psi. In this case, a 16g, stock fueling should handle things on an otherwise stock car.

Pauley, maybe i am missing something, but at the end of the day I have a volume to fill in the engine, the same volume filled at the same pressure requires the same amount of fuel to achieve the same AFR. All this adds up to same psi=same amount of fuel = same amount of power. This would lead me to believe it doesn't matter how big your turbo is as long as it can keep up with the flow needed to maintain the psi that you request. I know it is a simple way of looking at it, but makes sense to me. Thoughts?

pauleyman · Feb 1, 2017

doubleclutch said:
We are essentially at after the same thing, I am just @ #5 on your list. Looks like your plan makes sense to me. As far as more power on the top end, i am not sure where the 14b falls off (i assume it can't hold 14 psi to redline) but the 16g can which should explain more top end power.

Pauley, maybe i am missing something, but at the end of the day I have a volume to fill in the engine, the same volume filled at the same pressure requires the same amount of fuel to achieve the same AFR. All this adds up to same psi=same amount of fuel = same amount of power. This would lead me to believe it doesn't matter how big your turbo is as long as it can keep up with the flow needed to maintain the psi that you request. I know it is a simple way of looking at it, but makes sense to me. Thoughts?

That is not correct. Mass airflow rate changes not only as a function of pressure but temperature as well. Smaller turbos heat up the air more. This is why you see some larger turbos making more power at the same psi you once ran on a smaller turbo. All else being equal.

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Upgrading to 16g turbo

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